Are chains acceptable alternative to spings?

[frolingdual]

After spending about 5 hours removing stuck turbulator springs from my Froling Log Boiler I am wondering if chains would be an acceptable alternative, or would there be any risk of damage trying them?

Has anyone tried on a Froling?

 

[tom in maine]

I just tried using chains in a prototype boiler we are working on. They seem to work very well.
They are certainly more durable.
There are threads here of others who have had decent results.

 

[Fred61]

Chains worked equally as well as original turbulators in my EKO however they shouldn't be used as an alternative to poor burning practices, burning high moisture wood and inadequate boiler maintenance schedules.

 

[jebatty]

The chain turbulator. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/13237/

I'm still using my original chain turbulators, and doubt they ever will wear out. These are cleaned simply by shaking and rattling each chain a couple of time.

And from I comment I made in 2008, which rings as true today as at the time made:
"Turbulators: This was the coup d’etat in me achieving the most satisfactory final result.... When I added these, my flue temp dropped somewhat more than 100 degrees. I clean these every 2 weeks to one month, and I know they need cleaning when flue temp starts to rise again higher than when they are clean. Commercial turbulators are available, including some from Tarm, but mine were free, easy to make, easy to install, and should last forever due to the heavy duty chain I had."

 

[woodsmaster]

Do you have storage ?

 

[Tennman]

After the pain of removing our turbs I like the chain idea. Do you guys think multiple smaller chains/tube with sharper edges would scrub the tubes better than one big link chain/tube?

 

[jebatty]

My intent is not to use the chains to clean the fire tubes but to turbulate the hot gas stream to maximize contact with the sidewalls of the fire tubes. I brush my tubes regularly. Zoro Tools has a good selection at fair prices for boiler brushes. My Tarm tubes are 3" diameter and I use a brush at 3.25" diameter. Two or three times through each tube does it, and the tubes stay very clean. Takes very little time, so long as you have relatively easy access to the tubes.

 

[Tennman]

Yeah.... I forgot their primary purpose. I've got the brush setup, it's just a nightmare getting those turbs out and back in. Discourages me from cleaning the tubes as often as I should. Gonna look at chains next time I have the cover off. Thx Jim

 

[Mike Fromme]

Yeah.... I forgot their primary purpose. I've got the brush setup, it's just a nightmare getting those turbs out and back in. Discourages me from cleaning the tubes as often as I should. Gonna look at chains next time I have the cover off. Thx Jim

If you don't care about using the 'shaker' handle it's not that hard to pull the turbs and put them back if you are not worrying about hooking up the linkage again. I don't find it that hard to pull and replace them all at once. But depending on your plumbing set up it may be easier to cut the support bar into 2 or 3 pieces so you can pull them in easier to handle sections.

I would think that the spiral turbulators that come in the biomass would be more efficient then chains. I may be wrong.

 

[jebatty]

Spiral may be more efficient. On the other hand, the dual role of the spiral to both turbulate and clean the tubes clearly can be a problem if there is any creosote formation in the tubes. I know I have, and I suspect that this is true of most of us, at times used wood wetter than it is supposed to be, or failed to achieve gasification and had to relight, or had other burn problems that resulted in a bad burn. With experience these occasions are now nearly nonexistent, although my first burn this year and my desire to get rid of some scrap wood ended up being a wet wood burn.

A poor burn does not cause a problem with the chain turbulators, and their ease of removal is classic, along with ease of access to the tubes. And other than shaking the chains I never am too concerned with getting them real clean because, after all, they reside in the hot gas stream which quickly burns off an creosote. The firetubes themselves are in contact with "cool" water which can allow creosote formation on the tubes; hence the problem.

As to efficiency, my stack temps dropped about 100F with the chains vs no chains. No experience with spiral turbs, so nothing to compare with, but based on readings a 100F drop in stack temp with turbulators is in the ballpark of what they are supposed to do. Efficiency increase in small gains in this temperature drop may be there, and it would be interesting to see controlled burn testing to actually see the outcome.

Finally, nothing can really compensate from proper burns to achieve high efficiency. The turbs won't compensate or be a cure for poor burning.

 

[Tennman]

Mike, You're right about plumbing being part my problem. When I ran the output pipe across the top of the boiler I didn't even know there was a maintenance panel I'd be regularly removing. All those years without storage had me shaking the handle often during the day. With storage now they don't get as sticky. I like the idea of modifying that bar so I can pull the whole assembly with turbs out or just go with chains.

Jim, Pretty sure that clean tubes with chains is more efficient than dirty tubes with turbs which is what I've been doing.

I'm also going to experiment with potatoes to clean the tubes I've been reading about.

 

[Mike Fromme]

I wasn't thinking about creosote sticking the spirals in place, just reusing what was already available. I could see that being a major problem. If the chains keep the temps down that might be the way to go...

But giving up the shaker handle and the ability to clean out the fine ash from the tubes daily may or may not be worth it for easier access to brushing the tubes.

 

[woodsmaster]

That cleaning handle is useless in my eyes. I have the spiral turbs and never had them get stuck, but have always had storage though. I just unhooked the linkage and remove the assembly all at once when i clean. It's fairly simple and quick.

 

[jebatty]

My old Tarm (2006) gets its firetubes brushed, time-wise, about once every two weeks, but in actuality I brush the tubes when I see flue temps about 100F higher than when the tubes are clean.

 

[DaveBP]

I also recorded a full 100F drop in my stack exhaust temperatures when I put in the turbulators.

I made them out of 2" wide sheet metal bent into 90 degree zigzags. 1/2" hole at top allows a 3/8" rod through to hang from. They are quite loose in the 3.2" ID of the fire tubes and only take a couple minutes to take out when I see my stack temps rising. Maybe once per cord of wood burned.

If it isn't convenient to do, I'm not going to do it. I would get tired of anything more than a simple, quick disassembly routine.