Baby Countryside auger motor--shot, or fixable?

[davidmancuso]

Hi all,

My Baby Countryside has been working fairly well since installation a month ago. I have the air wash mod and bought the cast iron pellet insert. I've tried 5 brands of fuels, and they all seem to leave black smoke on the door fairly quickly, but I continue to adjust things.

BUT.

My ash pan filled up and the feeder tube filled up. No fire, but the auger motor now doesn't work well. It will buzz, but not turn. It tries to turn a tiny bit, but gets stuck.

If I switch the wires (it's a DC model), it will spin for 40 seconds or so (if I press the button) and then stick again. If I reverse the wires again, it will spin in the opposite direct for a bit and then stick again.

I'm pretty sure the auger feed tube is empty at this point.

There's supposed to be an Allen bolt I can loosen to remove the motor and take a look at it, but I don't see it. I think perhaps if I remove the bolt in the side of the auger down where the pellet feed, then the motor will drop out. But I wanted to see if anyone had any insights here. Regardless, thanks for any help!

 

[smwilliamson]

welcome to the wonderful world of AES. Sounds like you may have something caught in the feeder, maybe that allan bolt you're looking for

 

[davidmancuso]

welcome to the wonderful world of AES. Sounds like you may have something caught in the feeder, maybe that allan bolt you're looking for

Yeah--I feel like the motor is slipping off a gear, or is shot, or itself is stuck. But I'm not sure. The fact that it will spin up for a bit every time I reverse direction makes me wonder.

 

[Don2222]

Hi all,

My Baby Countryside has been working fairly well since installation a month ago. I have the air wash mod and bought the cast iron pellet insert. I've tried 5 brands of fuels, and they all seem to leave black smoke on the door fairly quickly, but I continue to adjust things.

BUT.

My ash pan filled up and the feeder tube filled up. No fire, but the auger motor now doesn't work well. It will buzz, but not turn. It tries to turn a tiny bit, but gets stuck.

If I switch the wires (it's a DC model), it will spin for 40 seconds or so (if I press the button) and then stick again. If I reverse the wires again, it will spin in the opposite direct for a bit and then stick again.

I'm pretty sure the auger feed tube is empty at this point.

There's supposed to be an Allen bolt I can loosen to remove the motor and take a look at it, but I don't see it. I think perhaps if I remove the bolt in the side of the auger down where the pellet feed, then the motor will drop out. But I wanted to see if anyone had any insights here. Regardless, thanks for any help!

It is not AES, I feel that DC motors may not have enough torque for feeding pellets for many years. Even in AC models I have found that bottom feeds are less taxing on the motors. The good news is that the white nylon auger bushing on the bottom of your Auger works well. You may want to think about changing your unit over to an AC model if possible. The BC-AC models last for many years if the top chamber in the firebox is cleaned out really well once a year.

 

[smwilliamson]

It is not AES, I feel that DC motors may not have enough torque for feeding pellets for many years.

Then AES should stop making it....or redesign it. I have an electric hydraulic DC motor on my tractor that has no issues with torque. The motors they use on the auger motors are like hobby motors you would get with an erector set. No wonder they stop working. If the motor is lifting with the revolutions then there is something binding the feed system, fines in the hopper would be my first guess, then a bad auger bushing or something foreign, but with the AES build quality, it could be anything at all...lots of margin for error in these machines.

 

[Pelleting In NJ]

It is not AES, I feel that DC motors may not have enough torque for feeding pellets for many years. Even in AC models I have found that bottom feeds are less taxing on the motors. The good news is that the white nylon auger bushing on the bottom of your Auger works well. You may want to think about changing your unit over to an AC model if possible. The BC-AC models last for many years if the top chamber in the firebox is cleaned out really well once a year.

DC motors have very high start-up torque...thats why they use them in electric/hybrid cars.....

 

[Don2222]

DC motors have very high start-up torque...thats why they use them in electric/hybrid cars.....

Thanks for the correction.
I should have said that AC auger motors are more rugged and last longer.
Here is why.

From
(broken link removed to http://www.ohioelectricmotors.com/what-is-the-difference-between-an-ac-motor-and-a-dc-motor-673)
While both A.C. and D.C. motors serve the same function of converting electrical energy into mechanical energy, they are powered, constructed and controlled differently. (broken link removed to http://www.ohioelectricmotors.com/what-is-the-difference-between-an-ac-motor-and-a-dc-motor-673#fn-673-1) The most basic difference is the power source. A.C. motors are powered from alternating current (A.C.) while D.C. motors are powered from direct current (D.C.), such as batteries, D.C. power supplies or an AC-to-DC power converter. D.C wound field motors are constructed with brushes and a commutator, which add to the maintenance, limit the speed and usually reduce the life expectancy of brushed D.C. motors. A.C. induction motors do not use brushes; they are very rugged and have long life expectancies. The final basic difference is speed control. The speed of a D.C. motor is controlled by varying the armature winding’s current while the speed of an A.C. motor is controlled by varying the frequency, which is commonly done with an adjustable frequency drive control. (broken link removed to http://www.ohioelectricmotors.com/what-is-the-difference-between-an-ac-motor-and-a-dc-motor-673#fn-673-2)

 

[davidmancuso]

I appreciated the talk with you about converting to an A.C. motor and control panel. I'm keeping that in mind for the future. The D.C. motor failed through my own fault. When the pellets backed up in the chute, the auger jammed and the electric part of the motor failed. If I knew more about electric motors I would try to take it apart and rebuild it, but I ordered another one from Don. It's already on the way and I should be up and running by the weekend. Good thing, because this old house blows through fuel oil like crazy.

I got this Baby Countryside in an auction three years ago for $1,300--it'd never been used. In two or three years I may swap it out for a Harmon. But for now I think it'll do the trick as long as I'm responsible with cleaning.

I do have to say that the pellet fuels I've tested all seem to fall short this year (Lowes, Home Depot, Tractor Supply, Agway, etc.). Is this year a bad year for pellets with fining and such? Not sure.

Thanks for the correction.
I should have said that AC auger motors are more rugged and last longer.
Here is why.

From
(broken link removed to http://www.ohioelectricmotors.com/what-is-the-difference-between-an-ac-motor-and-a-dc-motor-673)
While both A.C. and D.C. motors serve the same function of converting electrical energy into mechanical energy, they are powered, constructed and controlled differently. (broken link removed to http://www.ohioelectricmotors.com/what-is-the-difference-between-an-ac-motor-and-a-dc-motor-673#fn-673-1) The most basic difference is the power source. A.C. motors are powered from alternating current (A.C.) while D.C. motors are powered from direct current (D.C.), such as batteries, D.C. power supplies or an AC-to-DC power converter. D.C wound field motors are constructed with brushes and a commutator, which add to the maintenance, limit the speed and usually reduce the life expectancy of brushed D.C. motors. A.C. induction motors do not use brushes; they are very rugged and have long life expectancies. The final basic difference is speed control. The speed of a D.C. motor is controlled by varying the armature winding’s current while the speed of an A.C. motor is controlled by varying the frequency, which is commonly done with an adjustable frequency drive control. (broken link removed to http://www.ohioelectricmotors.com/what-is-the-difference-between-an-ac-motor-and-a-dc-motor-673#fn-673-2)

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Thanks for the correction.
I should have said that AC auger motors are more rugged and last longer.
Here is why.

From
(broken link removed to http://www.ohioelectricmotors.com/what-is-the-difference-between-an-ac-motor-and-a-dc-motor-673)
While both A.C. and D.C. motors serve the same function of converting electrical energy into mechanical energy, they are powered, constructed and controlled differently. (broken link removed to http://www.ohioelectricmotors.com/what-is-the-difference-between-an-ac-motor-and-a-dc-motor-673#fn-673-1) The most basic difference is the power source. A.C. motors are powered from alternating current (A.C.) while D.C. motors are powered from direct current (D.C.), such as batteries, D.C. power supplies or an AC-to-DC power converter. D.C wound field motors are constructed with brushes and a commutator, which add to the maintenance, limit the speed and usually reduce the life expectancy of brushed D.C. motors. A.C. induction motors do not use brushes; they are very rugged and have long life expectancies. The final basic difference is speed control. The speed of a D.C. motor is controlled by varying the armature winding’s current while the speed of an A.C. motor is controlled by varying the frequency, which is commonly done with an adjustable frequency drive control. (broken link removed to http://www.ohioelectricmotors.com/what-is-the-difference-between-an-ac-motor-and-a-dc-motor-673#fn-673-2)

Are you really saying that they are using a brush type motor? I really doubt that. Brush motors are almost always high speed motors. It is more likely a brush-less or stepping motor design. There is nothing wrong with dc motors, the problem is usually inadequate engineers who don't design with enough margin for the unexpected because the are pressured to keep the cost of goods as low as possible.
The dc auger drive in my MVAE as an example has not had a problem in the two years that it has been with me. It will consume virtually anything that is put in the hopper. It even passed a screwdriver tip that fell from the mantle unnoticed.
On the other hand, there are plenty of complaints about the ac gear-motors found in many pellet stove. Just look through this forum and you will see that the ac motors leave a lot to be desired in the way of performance. Again the problem is not that ac motors are no good, it's that the design is no good. Manufacturers design with the least expensive component that will do the job because we demand the lowest prices. We get what we asked for. When we stop putting price before performance we will get more robust designs.
Sorry for the rant. The engineer in me demanded it.

 

[Bioburner]

Maybe the stove is designed like a beer can. When its empty its done

Are you really saying that they are using a brush type motor? I really doubt that. Brush motors are almost always high speed motors. It is more likely a brush-less or stepping motor design. There is nothing wrong with dc motors, the problem is usually inadequate engineers who don't design with enough margin for the unexpected because the are pressured to keep the cost of goods as low as possible.
The dc auger drive in my MVAE as an example has not had a problem in the two years that it has been with me. It will consume virtually anything that is put in the hopper. It even passed a screwdriver tip that fell from the mantle unnoticed.
On the other hand, there are plenty of complaints about the ac gear-motors found in many pellet stove. Just look through this forum and you will see that the ac motors leave a lot to be desired in the way of performance. Again the problem is not that ac motors are no good, it's that the design is no good. Manufacturers design with the least expensive component that will do the job because we demand the lowest prices. We get what we asked for. When we stop putting price before performance we will get more robust designs.
Sorry for the rant. The engineer in me demanded it.

We come once again to the matter of design and manufacture. Short on design and cheap on manufacture = a poor consumer experience. Fill in a few expletives and you have what some companies are doing.