Best Electric Water Heater

[thinkxingu]

Looks like a lot of water heaters getting replaced around here! I've ruled out on demand, as I'll never recoup costs and there's a wide range of experiences; I've also ruled out hybrid because of cost and because we lose power a lot.

So, suggestions on best standard electric water heater? I'll be installing myself.

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[peakbagger]

Water heater life is very dependent on your local water quality. Some water will chew up heaters and some others doesn't. Installation details also factor in, in some areas if you forget to install galvanic nipples (isolate the copper from the steel nipples on the tank) you are done for. Same for anodes, aggressive water means replacing anodes every few years. Skip it and you have just doomed the heater to failure, keep the anodes in good shape and you can see 20 years. Get rid of the plastic drain valves and flush the tank of sediment yearly unless you determine that your water supply has minimal sediment or you have an upstream filter. Odds are if you wait several years and don't drain it with the plastic valve its not going to open. There are companies that make Stainless steel water heaters, you pay a lot more up front but they last a lot longer with less maintenance, (no anodes). Most folks get scared off by the upfront cost of stainless and just go with known brand and hope.

A secret that folks don't know about municipal water systems is that the local fire department can trash a water heater if there is nearby fire. They can inadvertently pull a suction on the water line and collapse a hot water heater unless the house is protected by a backflow preventer. Years ago I tested fire hydrants for a water utility and they usually could tell where were testing by the trail of complaints. We did it during the day but we also had a crew that worked nights flushing hydrants. Folks would not even know that the testing occurred overnight but it might have been enough to crack or collapse a stone liner.

 

[iron]

when ours goes, i think i'm leaning this way:
http://www.geappliances.com/ge/heat-pump-hot-water-heater.htm

 

[LowbanksArcher]

when ours goes, i think i'm leaning this way:
http://www.geappliances.com/ge/heat-pump-hot-water-heater.htm

Very interesting

 

[thinkxingu]

when ours goes, i think i'm leaning this way:
http://www.geappliances.com/ge/heat-pump-hot-water-heater.htm

That's what I referred to as a hybrid. The ratings are not great (average 3 stars on most review sites), they need a drain for condensate, temperature/humidity can be an issue, microelectronics can be tricky and expensive to fix, and the cost might not be made up in the service life.

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[Highbeam]

Just go buy a cheap one at home depot and install it right. If you are too good for that then go marathon. You don't need a huge one unless you are bath tub people.

 

[Highbeam]

Just go buy a cheap one at home depot and install it right. If you are too good for that then go marathon. You don't need a huge one unless you are bath tub people.

 

[thinkxingu]

Just go buy a cheap one at home depot and install it right. If you are too good for that then go marathon. You don't need a huge one unless you are bath tub people.

It's not that I'm "too good" for anything, it's that we go away for periods at a time and have an all-electric house we're trying to be frugal in.

That being said, it looks like we have three major options: Whirlpool, Rheem (not Marathon, regular), and Kenmore. Any input welcome:

Size: there are four of us--the kids still take baths and my wife and I like them here and there in winter. We also often run the dishwasher and washing machine together. Currently, we have a 50 gallon.

Insulation: obviously we want to save as much money as possible, are some brands better here?

Complexity: we lose power here and there and use a generator, so something not too complicated that might get messed up.

Thanks!

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[Highbeam]

It's not that I'm "too good" for anything, it's that we go away for periods at a time and have an all-electric house we're trying to be frugal in.

That being said, it looks like we have three major options: Whirlpool, Rheem (not Marathon, regular), and Kenmore. Any input welcome:

Ha! You're too good sounds bad, sorry. Okay try this, if none of the regular water heaters are good enough for you.... then step up to a marathon. Otherwise, they are all the same. Steel tank, lined with some sort of ceramic, replaceable standardized elements, drains, thermostats, and nipples. All of those options are equivalent so shop for price. There is something to be said for using off the shelf common parts like water heaters which need to be easily replaceable.

I used the basic, electric, 40 gallon, rheem, water heater from home depot and it went in super easily with no leaks. Used a drain pan, earthquake straps, expansion tank, and semi rigid stainless steel connectors to ensure easy replacement. It's now in a dedicated closet with easy access for inspection and replacement if needed. Being fed with filtered soft water I never intend to drain it or remove the anode rod.

 

[Highbeam]

Size: there are four of us--the kids still take baths and my wife and I like them here and there in winter. We also often run the dishwasher and washing machine together. Currently, we have a 50 gallon.

Insulation: obviously we want to save as much money as possible, are some brands better here?

Complexity: we lose power here and there and use a generator, so something not too complicated that might get messed up.

A 40 or 50 gallon would likely be adequate. I too have a family of four with daughters in the double digits of age. We don't use the bathtub for baths and have modern fixtures and appliances. Have never run out of hot water.

All water heater brands have to meet the current energy regulations which require a significant amount of insulation. So significant that standby losses are virtually zero for all modern water heaters. The marathons have more but we're at the point of diminishing returns.

Your generator will need to provide 4500 watts to run the water heater. They are not complicated but do need a good bit of power. I choose not to try and run the water heater by generator since that is a huge amount of generator capacity for an item that is not really critical. Plus, due to modern insulation levels you will have 50 gallons of 120 degree water ready to go for quite some time. That 50 gallons makes a whole lot more 100 degree water for showering.

Try and grow your kids out of baths. Terribly wasteful.

 

[Buzz Saw]

semi rigid stainless steel connectors.

When you use the semi rigid connector is the galvanized connector(I forget what they are called) needed?

Thanks.

 

[maple1]

What Highbeam is saying, x2.

I wouldn't try to factor in power-outage situations, unless you're talking being without power for days at a time. Even then, there is enough reserve in the tank to get a quick shower or two out of. We have no need for any hot water while waiting for power to come back on. We actually had our longest outage in months just last night - hot water was way down the list of wants. You can catch up on dirty dishes, laundry & baths when the power comes back.

Ours is 80 gallons. It's 5 years old now, no issues yet (knock on wood). I watched for sales then jumped when I saw one. I added a layer of fiberglass insulation to it, and heat traps. Very efficient. I wasn't sure about the added insulation, and if it would be worth it, but after adding it I could feel warmth in the wall of the tank with my hand under the insulation. So I think it helps. Getting the heater up off the floor on a (solid) stand also helps.

But I would fully cost out a Heat Pump heater first - there are incentives in place in some areas that make them pretty darn attractive. Check out threads in the Green Room for more info on those.

 

[thinkxingu]

What Highbeam is saying, x2.

I wouldn't try to factor in power-outage situations, unless you're talking being without power for days at a time.

But I would fully cost out a Heat Pump heater first - there are incentives in place in some areas that make them pretty darn attractive. Check out threads in the Green Room for more info on those.

Yeah, I decided to skip power outage consideration.

I can get a hybrid for $1000 with a $300 federal tax credit and maybe a credit from my power company (if I get it professionally installed). I'm guessing somewhere around $800 in the end, but, as I mentioned above, I would need to add a condensate line, which would add to the cost and complexity, and the reviews on the $1000 ones are mediocre at best--electronics problems, leaks, etc.--while the actual savings are questionable.

From what I've read, if I keep the basement at 60 in the winter, I'd have to use the hybrid mode which saves MAYBE 10%--at that rate, I'd save around $25/year. Assuming ten trouble-free years, I'd barely break even.

I'm leaning towards a Kenmore 50 gallon for $508 with free delivery. We have a Kenmore now that has been solid for 12 years, and the fit would be perfect.

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[Seasoned Oak]

Just go buy a cheap one at home depot and install it right. If you are too good for that then go marathon. You don't need a huge one unless you are bath tub people.

Agreed We have 6 people on a 30 Gallon,all showers. Works fine. Im considering a Geo spring just because i run a dehumidifier all summer and have so much hot water use. Probably costing ME $50 a MONTH right now just for hot water. It helps that i just signed up for .045cKWH generation, that alone is saving me $50 a month.

 

[maple1]

Yeah, I decided to skip power outage consideration.

I can get a hybrid for $1000 with a $300 federal tax credit and maybe a credit from my power company (if I get it professionally installed). I'm guessing somewhere around $800 in the end, but, as I mentioned above, I would need to add a condensate line, which would add to the cost and complexity, and the reviews on the $1000 ones are mediocre at best--electronics problems, leaks, etc.--while the actual savings are questionable.

From what I've read, if I keep the basement at 60 in the winter, I'd have to use the hybrid mode which saves MAYBE 10%--at that rate, I'd save around $25/year. Assuming ten trouble-free years, I'd barely break even.

I'm leaning towards a Kenmore 50 gallon for $508 with free delivery. We have a Kenmore now that has been solid for 12 years, and the fit would be perfect.

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Do you use a dehumidifier?

I also highly doubt that 60° thing too. There are lots of people posting different real-world experiences in the Green Room.

I like our conventional electric, don't get that wrong - but if the gap was only $300 between it & a HPWH, and I could displace dehumidifier use with it (or I could use some added A/C effect in the summer), I would be seriously considering a HPWH.

 

[thinkxingu]

Do you use a dehumidifier?

I also highly doubt that 60° thing too. There are lots of people posting different real-world experiences in the Green Room.

I like our conventional electric, don't get that wrong - but if the gap was only $300 between it & a HPWH, and I could displace dehumidifier use with it (or I could use some added A/C effect in the summer), I would be seriously considering a HPWH.

I do use a dehumidifier, but my water heater is in a closet in the corner of a room, so I'm not sure that would make any difference. I'll check them out a bit more, but I'm still thinking the condensate line is a deal breaker.

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[maple1]

If I used a dehumidifier, a condensate line would also be a non-factor. A dehumidifier also makes condensate, so it would need to be dealt with either way.

You might be able to dehumidify and make hot water with a HPWH, using the same amount of electricity per month that you are using now just to dehumidify. Or even less.

 

[velvetfoot]

The heat pump water heater makes noise and the resistance model is silent.

 

[cableman]

My condensate pump dropped to 19.99 free ship on amazon, i actually ordered it for the dehumidifier i was gonna order. Ended up using it on the hphw i ended up installing.
I just ran it outside 20' away using some pex and clear hose.

 

[thinkxingu]

If I used a dehumidifier, a condensate line would also be a non-factor. A dehumidifier also makes condensate, so it would need to be dealt with either way.

You might be able to dehumidify and make hot water with a HPWH, using the same amount of electricity per month that you are using now just to dehumidify. Or even less.

Like I said, my water heater is in a closet so I'd still have to use a dehumidifier.

I'll look into the HP versions, but I'm not convinced it's best for us.

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[semipro]

The heat pump water heater makes noise and the resistance model is silent.

Our resistance electric water heater is quite noisy actually. I believe its because we have hard water and the mineral build-up on the elements somehow causes localized boiling of the water, or something like that.

 

[jebatty]

Our electric hot water heater is on an "off-peak" rate of about $0.06/kWh whereby electricity is furnished only between 11pm and 7am. Off-peak usage is on a separate meter. We never run out of hot water during the off time, which is similar to a 16 hour power outage every day.

The water heater is new but also has added insulation and heat traps. Recently we were gone for 3 weeks and the off-peak meter showed standby losses between 2-3 kWh/day. Usage including standby losses when we are home averages about 100-110 kWh/month.

I doubt a HP would work well in our basement because we keep the basement at about 50-55 degrees during the winter. It does warm up during the summer to above 60F but always stays cool. We also dehumidify in the summer from about July 1 to Sept 15. Also, at 110 kWh/month at $6.50/month for electricity, or $78/year, a HP likely would never pay its way after considering the cost plus electric usage by the HP.

 

[maple1]

We also dehumidify in the summer from about July 1 to Sept 15. Also, at 110 kWh/month at $6.50/month for electricity, or $78/year, a HP likely would never pay its way after considering the cost plus electric usage by the HP.

Any idea on the consumption of your dehumidifier?

 

[Highbeam]

When you use the semi rigid connector is the galvanized connector(I forget what they are called) needed?

Thanks.

I got rid of my copper plumbing so I don't have to worry about that but from what I understand the ss is like brass, not reactive. So no extra dielectric fittings are needed.

 

[jebatty]

Any idea on the consumption of your dehumidifier?

I'm putting the Kill-O-Watt on it to verify, my estimate is 2-3/kWh/day.