I still think it's an unwillingness for people to recognize the fact that there are different ways to do something. Some people are happy to have minimal processing and burn more wood, do I feel that way, no. If they have access to lots of wood, I'm not too worried there is some type of wood-consuming mongering and the whole country will become like Hati, deforested desert. Are we worried about some kind of ban on wood-burning due to the billowing smoke from OWBs, and that turning into us having to go back to oil? We are set on our boilers and their efficiency, they are set on their lack of oil bills and are (usually) ok with burning copious amounts of wood (compaired to high efficiency users). They think we are nuts and we think the same of them. It's like alot of things in life, we need to try and see things from someone else's perspective, even if it goes against what we believe. That way we can understand where they are comming from, and maybe we can show them why we believe what we believe. And it is their right to have their own opinion, just as we do. I like Fords, they like Chevys etc.
It was said on the first page that we should have laws banning OWBs, that sounds like liberalism to me. We can't ban all things that we don't like, offset laws, sure, don't choke your neighbor with woodsmoke, but banning no. If I want to own 100 acres and live right in the middle and have an OWB and not bother anyone, I should be free to do so. That same thing should not happen in a subdivision or urban setting, that just makes everyone mad.
If they are totally ignorant, then let them be. I for one am about as conservitave as they come, trust me. We need to be realistic, and I for one believe that if we can use domestically produced oil and and not import huge amounts of energy, we'd be much better off. That means less gov't restriction on just about everything, and more conservitism to get there. Being a good steward, and being stupid are two different things. Coal isn't in the ground to leave there, and trees don't grow for us to hug. The O voters hang out in the AshCan for some good political debate. I do frequent there.
'Nough said, the soap box is free now..............
TS
I agree with most of your viewpoints, and myself being a very, very conservative person, I would like to point out some things you touched upon, such as:
a) Absolute freedom in choice of burning whatever quantities of wood, sure why not, but in Europe they cleared out their forests and were forced to re think consumption, conservation and efficiency. Not smart to not heed history's lessons and mistakes by others.
On same point , I do not want regulation regarding choices, so educating and making the proper choices eliminates the"legislative control" in the decision making..sort of pre-emptive control of our lives and not having "choices"forced upon us based on "bad/uneducated decision making" caused legislation.
Again I advocate EDUCATION , CIVICS & PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and NOT LAWS or FORCED LEGISLATION, but if we think this happens by just simple freedom of choice...we have forgotten history;s lessons..WITH FREEDOM COMES RESPONSIBILITY and FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.
b) Ignorance should not be left alone, I greatly disagree with that viewpoint. Ignorance breeds malignancy and becomes gravely damaging, that is why it is propagated by the controlling parties...they called them the Dark ages for a reason..Our Founding Fathers have written scores on this point alone and build a country on the basis of knowledge based decision making. Hell they almost hanged for it.. History's abound with tragedies bred by ignorance...let them them eat cake and all.
Again, not by legislation, but by peer review, socioeconomic pressure and self exemplification in choices.
c)domestic energy in oil and gas...very dangerous topic. Tremendous amounts of misinformation and media driven "fact-spewing", all based on Energy company agendas, written by their PR sectors and backed by millions of dollars paid to mouthpieces and "in house scientists".
Domestic energy access does not equal patriotism..let's be careful. Always follow the money.
Too deep to get into here, but there is plenty of evidence, research, on actual amounts of energy, profit making vs feasibility curves and studies. But is way off topic.
Only relevant point is conservation and availability of energy, with our kids, grand kids and beyond in mind, not just us and now. ..and I am NOT for not using our Oil or Gas, I am for "how" and by "who profits or decides for and from our rights" and with what consequences to our future.
Next step they are trying to implement is GRANTING the right of eminent domain to energy companies on the basis of "public utility and good" premise..let's see how we' d like that..see such as:http://marcellusdrilling.com/2011/0...line-company-giving-it-eminent-domain-powers/
if we are for Domestic usage of fossil fuels do we all support that? I for one will make a stand on my ground regardless..but ignorance and false data based legislation will bring that sooner or later..
Btw my father was a petrochemical and marine engineer that worked for Esso and most of the other 7 sisters for over 40 years. Please do not assume me to be a liberal, tree hugging uneducated person on the subject.
I have been on tankers with him transporting Arabian oil up the Miss. river to dump back into the ground in our depleted strategic reserves and have done plenty of research regarding the extraction/transportation/distribution/point of sale profits mechanisms of the energy trade. It's a commodity being sold in the international market to the highest bidder and domestic/patriotic facets have absolutely no bearing in it, other than advertising and policy creation towards the public. Maybe if the American people were more aware of who and from what country makes the most profits out of our domestic energy , we may have some awakenings.
d) I like what you said about being a good steward, but being stupid is judged by what we leave in our wake based on our decision making criteria. Regarding coal and trees, they serve other purposes than just energy consumption vectors, so let us consider that as well. As far tree hugging...I am for your original point....the right to their opinion, but through education, myself, I would just rather hug a warm something and hold a cool brewed beverage afterwards.
Thank you for the great points and opportunity for the discussion boiler man.
Scott