Bolt production to stop

[stoveliker]

I just saw this pop by in some recommendation.

GM to end production of electric Chevy Bolt, its first mass-market EV, later this year

The Chevy Bolt EV and EUV, a larger version of the car, make up the vast majority of the company's electric vehicle sales to date.

www.cnbc.com

They'll focus on trucks. It's a pity; I am not ready yet for an EV (just, slooowly, driving my current 40-41 mpg ICE vehicle until it's dead), and I dislike the move to (higher margin) larger cars/trucks in the EV market.

I understand the company perspective on that, and this is not unexpected of course.

But for me personally, I'd like it if more (affordable) smaller EVs would be in the market. Maybe the learning from larger vehicles and trucks will allow lower priced/better small EVs to become available after 5-10 yrs or so?

 

[woodgeek]

I suspect the resale value of my 2022 Bolt just went up.

This makes sense to me IF they can make Equinox's in the same volume (70k+/year) starting this Fall. If they can't ramp up Ultium production (which seems to be lagging) this is stupid.

 

[stoveliker]

I suspect the resale value of my 2022 Bolt just went up.

Lol. But I'm waiting, not buying (yours)

 

[EbS-P]

Was just about to post this.

The line will build the electric Silverado. Yeah that’s what we need. More trucks.

They couldn’t keep them in stock. They got the tax credit. But hey progress right. I don’t get that decision unless there just isn’t profit at that price point. But I be the Silverado starts north of $55k.

Maybe the Equinox bev will be good but mass production is at least 2 years away I’m guessing.

 

[peakbagger]

Bummer, I wonder if someone will make a "who killed the electric car 2" video?

I think it comes down to at this point is the race to the bottom on small EVs, what company is willing to lose the most money to sell in volume. I think GM has come to the same conclusion as Ford is go for the truck market and hand off the small auto market to offshore suppliers.

The price of used Bolts should go up with the used EV credit

• Have a sale price of $25,000 or less
• Have a model year at least 2 years earlier than the calendar year when you buy it. For example, a vehicle purchased in 2023 would need a model year of 2021 or older.
• Not have already been transferred after August 16, 2022, to a qualified buyer.
• Have a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 14,000 pounds
• Be an eligible FCV or plug-in EV with a battery capacity of least 7 kilowatt hours
• Be for use primarily in the United States

 

[blades]

you all can have your city slicker ev's, don't work for me. a $5000 + battery pak repacement at 5 years don't work in my book either. 300 mile range well not towing 14000 lbs and when its zero deg. out you are not going to get that range either. as it is currenty and for the next 10 years likely ain't going to happen for me. If and when they can tripple at least the energy density of the battery then maybe.

 

[stoveliker]

I was not contrasting city vs rural, work vs commute, etc.
I was just bemoaning the loss of one part of the spectrum available to chose from. I understand others have (at this point, see "triple" remark) other choices to make. But to me, it is precisely smaller cars not made for moving a lot of cargo, that evs could make inroads and decrease emissions, while technology progresses.

I'm not sure that at 5 yrs batteries need to be replaced, though. That's not at all what's happening with the ev's on the road.

 

[woodgeek]

you all can have your city slicker ev's, don't work for me. a $5000 + battery pak repacement at 5 years don't work in my book either. 300 mile range well not towing 14000 lbs and when its zero deg. out you are not going to get that range either. as it is currenty and for the next 10 years likely ain't going to happen for me. If and when they can tripple at least the energy density of the battery then maybe.

Not sure where you are getting that 5 year figure. Plenty of 10 year old EVs driving around with the original battery in good condition.

 

[SpaceBus]

you all can have your city slicker ev's, don't work for me. a $5000 + battery pak repacement at 5 years don't work in my book either. 300 mile range well not towing 14000 lbs and when its zero deg. out you are not going to get that range either. as it is currenty and for the next 10 years likely ain't going to happen for me. If and when they can tripple at least the energy density of the battery then maybe.

👍

 

[ABMax24]

Smart move IMO, and it's the exact same thing Elon Musk is doing with all his companies. Move production to higher end products to sell to the wealthy, make a higher profit and use that experience to build more cost effectively, then develop products to fulfill the market at a lower price point.

I was never going to buy a bolt, I would buy a Silverado. Fine with me.

 

[EbS-P]

you all can have your city slicker ev's, don't work for me. a $5000 + battery pak repacement at 5 years don't work in my book either. 300 mile range well not towing 14000 lbs and when its zero deg. out you are not going to get that range either. as it is currenty and for the next 10 years likely ain't going to happen for me. If and when they can tripple at least the energy density of the battery then maybe.

I’m at 12.5% degradation at 35k miles and 6.5 years old. Age is not just mileage is important too.

Tesla claims its EV batteries degrade only 12% after 200,000 miles

Electric vehicles are significant investments; hence, the components should remain useful for as long as possible. With many Tesla cars getting along in years, the company has gathered data on its batteries’ performance with time, [...]

driveteslacanada.ca

 

[woodgeek]

Smart move IMO, and it's the exact same thing Elon Musk is doing with all his companies. Move production to higher end products to sell to the wealthy, make a higher profit and use that experience to build more cost effectively, then develop products to fulfill the market at a lower price point.

I was never going to buy a bolt, I would buy a Silverado. Fine with me.

Honestly, I have to agree. The existing legacy EVs are all 'transitional' IMO, and loss leaders financially. Small volume, climbing the learning curve and driving down costs of batteries and vehicles.

Only Tesla and BYD have scaled and gotten to reasonable margins, so far. And they are making a crazy margin in the US.

I've been happy with my Bolt, but leased bc I figured it will look like garbage in a few years in terms of specs and value. The $6k GM gave me as a thank you helps. But it might be my last Chevy.

 

[EbS-P]

I’m still in disbelief that this transition wasn’t really planned for by the big automakers. Covid took all their chips and demand dropped and they did make cars. Now we are in this transition that they are only making trucks. Now my Honda dealer is just selling used trucks. Not Hondas. The bolt which should have really taken off last year and this year is now dead. And will peak at 70k units a year. Tesla will make 200k Model Ys this year. Model 3 long range is still back ordered. Canada is getting RWD Model Ys from China. And we’re are still waiting for everyone but Tesla to get over 100k units a year of any one model.

I think is similar short life could happen with the first BE pickups.

 

[begreen]

I just saw this pop by in some recommendation.

GM to end production of electric Chevy Bolt, its first mass-market EV, later this year

The Chevy Bolt EV and EUV, a larger version of the car, make up the vast majority of the company's electric vehicle sales to date.

www.cnbc.com

They'll focus on trucks. It's a pity; I am not ready yet for an EV (just, slooowly, driving my current 40-41 mpg ICE vehicle until it's dead), and I dislike the move to (higher margin) larger cars/trucks in the EV market.

I understand the company perspective on that, and this is not unexpected of course.

But for me personally, I'd like it if more (affordable) smaller EVs would be in the market. Maybe the learning from larger vehicles and trucks will allow lower priced/better small EVs to become available after 5-10 yrs or so?

Like the Volt, GM tends to see EV models as interim steps. It's unfortunate when they have a hit like the Bolt. GM's commitment going forward is 100% on the Ultium platform. Barra laid this out a couple of years ago. With lax and skewed EPA fleet requirements, prior to the IRA, US companies were reluctant to rush into EVs in the US. The overseas market story was much more compelling. Now, the pressure is global to convert from ICE asap.

Site Maintenance

 

[begreen]

I’m at 12.5% degradation at 35k miles and 6.5 years old. Age is not just mileage is important too.

Tesla claims its EV batteries degrade only 12% after 200,000 miles

Electric vehicles are significant investments; hence, the components should remain useful for as long as possible. With many Tesla cars getting along in years, the company has gathered data on its batteries’ performance with time, [...]

driveteslacanada.ca

Charge rate and capacity affect degradation too. GM intentionally keeps their EV batteries between 20% and 80% to extend their lifespan.

 

[semipro]

you all can have your city slicker ev's, don't work for me. a $5000 + battery pak repacement at 5 years don't work in my book either. 300 mile range well not towing 14000 lbs and when its zero deg. out you are not going to get that range either. as it is currenty and for the next 10 years likely ain't going to happen for me. If and when they can tripple at least the energy density of the battery then maybe.

Related new data on battery longevity.

Tesla gives update on battery degradation: only 12% after 200,000 miles

Tesla has released a rare update on the battery degradation in its electric cars. The automaker claims its batteries only...

electrek.co

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I wonder how much the Tesla price drops affected this decision? If Tesla cuts their price and their product stays the same or nearly does, they will gain market share and force other manufacturers to cut their prices too. With the lower prices, it may not be worth making them.

 

[KDubU]

VW has a nice small electric car. Not sure when it or if it’s coming to the US though. I would watch out for the Chinese, they will eventually in one way or another have theirs on the roads here.

 

[EbS-P]

I wonder how much the Tesla price drops affected this decision? If Tesla cuts their price and their product stays the same or nearly does, they will gain market share and force other manufacturers to cut their prices too. With the lower prices, it may not be worth making them.

I’m guessing not a lot. Mode 3 RWD is $40k before tax credit. Bolt is $26.5k I just don’t see the bolt and the model 3 as direct competitors. I think what might concern them is the profit margins if a price war happens. Tesla has bigger profit margins and could, if needed, cut prices to move units. Bolt only had 170 units available at the start of the month. 5 day supply. To complete with Tesla you must rethink how you design cars. They must be designed to be built as cheap as possible. Mega casting are here to stay

 

[peakbagger]

I think it comes down GM LLC had to agree to get back into the EV business as part of the government bailout regardless if they could make money on them. Ford did not need the bailout so they were not under the same pressure (but the CEO made a commitment anyhow). EVs were part of the GM business model when CAFE standards were around to offset low mileage trucks but the Volt did not sell in volume and they brought out the Crusie and the Spark to offset big trucks low fuel economy. The Voltwas based on the Delta shared chassis (Chevy Cruise and a Saturn product) that went out of production. It also was a technically complex model, so they were probably taking quite a loss on each one produced that was not offset by fuel mileage offsets, plus the Trump administration rolled back CAFE standards in 2020. Therefore, Chevy switched to the Bolt, which could be built on the Spark production line. The Bolt was technically simpler than the Volt but most estimates is that GM was losing $8,000 each and break even was not expected until 2025. My guess is the Volt would have lost even more as an orphan platform as the years went on.

GMs plan for a few years was to build most of their EVs on the Ultium platform which is a pure electric platform. They and most of the conventional manufacturers assumed EV adoption would go slower. The Trump administration also cast a big doubt on the timing so the mainstream manufacturers were 8 years behind Tesla who realized that there was a niche market In CA that could be filled be selling EV credits to other manufacturers who wanted to sell in CA without selling electric vehicles. There are various estimates that more than half the cost of early Tesla's were offset by selling credits. GM LLC despite the bankrupcy still has legacy costs that a new manufacturer like Tesla does not (pensions and union contracts).

Unlike the Tesla Megacasting, the GM Ultium platform is a "rollerskate" design with potentially more flexibility for producing multiple car models as they can stack battery packs to vary battery capacity while still retaining the battery tray as a stressed element concept that the Tesla Megacasting approach uses. Car customers in the US traditionally expect significant model changes on a faster rotation than Tesla currently supports while the Ultium rollerskate platform seems to be better suited to support more and faster model changes. Tesla appears to have adopted the VW Beetle approach, one low cost underlying platform with little potential for major upgrades. https://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model-s-and-model-x-are-really-showing-their-1850311130 Tesla can afford to drop their prices as the tooling is now paid for. The current plan is for the new Tesla battery cell design to be built into the cars backbone so there will be no "battery packs" as such. This will probably give weight and cost savings, but it just makes the car even more expensive to repair. The Ultium skateboard will be modular meaning battery packs can be repaired and far easier to recycle into a stationary battery.

GM sadly is adopting the Tesla approach with respect to driver software interface. The Bolt has Apple Car Play and Android auto capability. GM is now going to a subscription based custom interface and dropping Apple and Android support. No doubt they will also adopt the approach of charging for extra options that already exist in the car that can only be unlocked by a software update.

Ultimately the Tesla design has always been how to stuff a lot of low capacity cells into a light chassis to get acceptable range and wow the driver with impressive but somewhat buggy software. With the fairly rapid increase in charge density, the economics will tip in some other direction as battery pack volume and weight will drop. What that direction is I do not know but expect that at least for GM and Ford, they still are going to have to stick with large higher end vehicles as they have not been competitive with small cars for a couple of decades except as loss leaders. Whether or not they will have enough market share selling high end SUVs and trucks that are rapidly becoming too expensive for middle class drivers remain to be seen. In most cases, folks are now financing new vehicles for seven years with payments that 10 years ago would be close to mortgage payments.

 

[begreen]

The Equinox EV baseline model will start at around $30k which is less than the Bolt until this year. The issue for early adopters of Chevy EVs is a loss of style and uniqueness. With the Volt and then the Bolt, they had an iconic, unique vehicle that developed strong brand loyalty. Chevrolet's decision to take their vanilla lines of vehicles like the Blazer, Equinox, etc., and make them into their EV flagships, loses caché and with it customers. That starts making the rest of the field look more attractive.

 

[woodgeek]

The Equinox EV baseline model will start at around $30k which is less than the Bolt until this year. The issue for early adopters of Chevy EVs is a loss of style and uniqueness. With the Volt and then the Bolt, they had an iconic, unique vehicle that developed strong brand loyalty. Chevrolet's decision to take their vanilla lines of vehicles like the Blazer, Equinox, etc., and make them into their EV flagships, loses caché and with it customers. That starts making the rest of the field look more attractive.

The loss of Apple Carplay and AA is also enough to get me to pass on their offerings, after buying THREE of their EVs.

As it is, GM wants $40/mo !! for OnStar. Just Onstar. I said heck no to that.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I liked Saturn. The plastic body panels still look new today on mid 90s cars.

 

[stoveliker]

The loss of Apple Carplay and AA is also enough to get me to pass on their offerings, after buying THREE of their EVs.

"I only buy a car if it has Apple Carplay" sounds like "my ashtray is full, time for a new car"...
Is that the most important aspect of your car?

 

[woodgeek]

"I only buy a car if it has Apple Carplay" sounds like "my ashtray is full, time for a new car"...
Is that the most important aspect of your car?

Yeah, sorry. I have never spent money for in-car navigation... bc I thought they all sucked. The flip side of getting rid of the ability to use my phone for nav is that they will force me to pay (probably monthly) for some crappy GM-derived nav system. I obv like the hardware ok, but the suits in Detroit have obv decided that the way to close all budget gaps at GM is to charge all owners a monthly fee to use their cars, and for the cars to not be useable otherwise.

I DO have a problem with the buy a car AND pay a $$$ subscription model to drive it.