Castle Serenity Issue - Quickly expiring pellets vs. Proof of fire sensor

[earlyhike]

I've been wrestling with my first Castle Serenity stove for the last few months.
I'm running it for maybe 8 hours in a detached garage once or twice a week. I've been wrestling with a variety of startup scenario failures .

While I may yet have a hardware defect with the Proof of Fire sensor, I believe part of my problem is with my Pellets "going bad" after just a day of sitting in my cold stove hopper overnight. While the pellets don't look like expired mush I feel like the stove struggles to fully light the pellets to a significant flame. If I remove the pellets sitting in the hopper with a fresh bag there is no problem getting the flame going.

My question is, can pellets genuinely lose their potency out of their bag in a dry cold garage in 24 hours?

This seems unreasonable but I'm not left with any better reasons for these poor ignition issues.
I'm genuinely trying to gain an understanding of pellet sustainability (as a pellet stove rookie).

 

[jackman]

If you have an outside air kit (OAK) connected to your stove that could be certainly be the reason for the pellets getting damp. An easy solution to the problem would be to keep the stove running.

 

[earlyhike]

If you have an outside air kit (OAK) connected to your stove that could be certainly be the reason for the pellets getting damp. An easy solution to the problem would be to keep the stove running.

I've disconnected my air outlet from the stove without any improvement.

I'm started to wonder if using a pellet stove for sporadic usage, opposed to constant use, goes against all proper use cases for a pellet stove. If so no one marketing these stoves is bothering to communicate this flaw.

If no one here has a secret that I'm missing then my only option forward is to vacuum out the pellets into an airtight container after every single use. It seems like overkill but I'm running out of options for something I think should be pretty straight forward.

I don't think I can feed a garage stove around the clock for every weekday when I will primarily use it for the weekend. Unless I can run it at some ultra low feed rate...

 

[Ssyko]

I have a 21 yr old quad in my shop that i leave pellets in for weeks. I.dont think damp pellets are the problem. Did you buy the stove new? Used? I know quads have a syndrome we call cold start failure, there is no rime or reason they just sporadically fail to start when they are cold. Now if you get the stove running does it run normal? Do you crank it up and everything cone on as it should?

 

[earlyhike]

I have a 21 yr old quad in my shop that i leave pellets in for weeks. I.dont think damp pellets are the problem. Did you buy the stove new? Used? I know quads have a syndrome we call cold start failure, there is no rime or reason they just sporadically fail to start when they are cold. Now if you get the stove running does it run normal? Do you crank it up and everything cone on as it should?

My Castle stove is brand new within the last few months. When I get it running everything largely works as it should. But I'm getting frustrated having to spend 1-2 hours (2-4 failed starts) every weekend trying to get it up and running. I'm willing to consider "cold starts" being an issue but its not sporadic for me at all. The cold start issues are pretty consistent. The only factor that seems to minimize the cold start grief is a fresh bag of pellets.

On a side note I do have what I think is a separate issue during startup where the flame will finally get going and then soon after error out with an "ignition failure error - you might be out of pellets". This occurs both when the fire is dead-on-arrival or fully formed. I've swapped the "Proof of Fire" sensor multiple times without change. I am trying to nail down Castle Support for this. But I'm separating this from my primary pellet fuel question because it seems irrelevant for 90% of the cases where fuel fails to effectively light with pellets kept in the hopper.

I'm open to being wrong about all of this, but I have to start somewhere. It would be great if pellets weren't the problem, but the more I work the issue the more I come back to pellet issues.

 

[earlyhike]

I have a 21 yr old quad in my shop that i leave pellets in for weeks. I.dont think damp pellets are the problem. Did you buy the stove new? Used? I know quads have a syndrome we call cold start failure, there is no rime or reason they just sporadically fail to start when they are cold. Now if you get the stove running does it run normal? Do you crank it up and everything cone on as it should?

Ssyko, when you have a cold start failure what is your solution for it? DO you just keep trying the startup sequence repeatedly until it warms up and works?

 

[Jeremy6500]

Where is your proof of fire sensor located? I just had a similar issue with my PP130. It's sensor presses up against the outside of the vent right where the exhaust fanbox is. I had cleaned my stove vent and combustion chamber really well with my shop vac, but I had not pulled the exhaust fan so I could get to the area of the vent right around it. Sure enough, there was a build up of ash caked to the inside of the exhaust vent. It was insulating the vent enough from the sensor that it would not register a flame initially. It would take multiple repetitive ignition cycles before it would get hot enough to register. I scraped and vacuumed the vent out really well and now it runs perfect again.

 

[earlyhike]

Where is your proof of fire sensor located? I just had a similar issue with my PP130. It's sensor presses up against the outside of the vent right where the exhaust fanbox is. I had cleaned my stove vent and combustion chamber really well with my shop vac, but I had not pulled the exhaust fan so I could get to the area of the vent right around it. Sure enough, there was a build up of ash caked to the inside of the exhaust vent. It was insulating the vent enough from the sensor that it would not register a flame initially. It would take multiple repetitive ignition cycles before it would get hot enough to register. I scraped and vacuumed the vent out really well and now it runs perfect again.

The sensor is after the fan on the exit pipe and right before leaving the unit and connecting to the vent.

This seems like a promising possibility. Thank you! I'll give it a shot in the next day or so.

 

[Jeremy6500]

The sensor is after the fan on the exit pipe and right before leaving the unit and connecting to the vent.

This seems like a promising possibility. Thank you! I'll give it a shot in the next day or so.

If you are going to have to pull the exhaust fan make sure you have some hi-temp silicone on hand to seal it when you re-install

 

[Ssyko]

Ssyko, when you have a cold start failure what is your solution for it? DO you just keep trying the startup sequence repeatedly until it warms up and works?

99% of the time i hit the reset button and it takes off. Yours doesn’t have a reset.check that the hole in your burn pot lines of with the hole for the igniter if it is off it could be an issue also

 

[earlyhike]

99% of the time i hit the reset button and it takes off. Yours doesn’t have a reset.check that the hole in your burn pot lines of with the hole for the igniter if it is off it could be an issue also

"Yours doesn’t have a reset." <---- #1 disappointment with the stove so far -that and the 30min cool down requirement every time it errors out.

 

[rich2500]

good point by Ssyko about the burnpot, another thing to check is where is the intake air adjustment set

 

[Ssyko]

try taking the proof of fire wires off the snap disc and connect them togeth. but before you try the stove pull the burn pot and use the shop vac over the igniter tube to make sure it has no debris in it. put the pot back in and try it.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Boy am I glad I have a manual start. handfull of pellets, squirt of liquid firestarter, close the door, hit the on button and in 3 minutes she's cooking away. Have to start mine on pellets anyway. Corn is hard to ignite.

 

[SidecarFlip]

On pellets.... I buy mine when there is a sale, like in the summer and I usually buy 4 ton at a time and I keep them in my barn which is not heated and the wind blows through, rain and snow too.. never been an issue with wet pellets. Right now, I'm using 3 year old pellets. I believe you have some other issue, other than the fuel. When pellets get damp, they basically fall apart and turn to sawdust. if they aren't sawdust, in my view, they are fine.

 

[earlyhike]

If you are going to have to pull the exhaust fan make sure you have some hi-temp silicone on hand to seal it when you re-install

This turned out not to be the case. You were right that the sensors were adhered to the fan unit.
I pulled off the vent and didn't find any significant ash or "caked material" in the exhaust vent or the fan itself. I didn't remove the fan or pull it apart but I could see inside was pretty clean and could feel the wall where the sensors are. I couldn't find anything to be concerned with. Thanks for the thought.

 

[earlyhike]

try taking the proof of fire wires off the snap disc and connect them togeth. but before you try the stove pull the burn pot and use the shop vac over the igniter tube to make sure it has no debris in it. put the pot back in and try it.

I tried this tonight but connecting the POF wires doesn't seem to get me anywhere. If I connect them and proceed to turn power on to the stove, the stove immediately goes into "fire will restart in 30 min." mode. It apparently thinks there is a fire and won't start again until everything cools down.

If I leave the wires off, start the startup process, and then connect the wires it hits me with a "low temperature -check your hopper" error. So there doesn't appear to be a means to trick the system.

I'm starting to think this stove's brain is too smart for its own good...

 

[earlyhike]

Further details as to what a typical cold start looks like:

- pellets feed in and ignite as embers for a while
- at some point the pellets might start to burn with a little flame
- while there is a small flame (or significant embers) the stove remains in "ignite mode"
- it keeps feeding pellets
- it continues to not give any significant airflow to encourage the flame
- eventually the fire fades, the embers start to disappear
- when things are at its worst, the stove starts blowing air on the flame, it jumps from stage 3 to 5, it changes into heating mode ... and none of it matters because what flame there was has come and gone.
- eventually it errors out and tells to check the hopper (which is full and so is the pot)

 

[SidecarFlip]

Sounds to me like instead of guessing, to call the dealer where you purchased it and have them come out and diagnose the issue and take corrective action and or contact a reputable service company and have them do the same...

 

[Manly]

Your comm

I've disconnected my air outlet from the stove without any improvement.

I'm started to wonder if using a pellet stove for sporadic usage, opposed to constant use, goes against all proper use cases for a pellet stove. If so no one marketing these stoves is bothering to communicate this flaw.

If no one here has a secret that I'm missing then my only option forward is to vacuum out the pellets into an airtight container after every single use. It seems like overkill but I'm running out of options for something I think should be pretty straight forward.

I don't think I can feed a garage stove around the clock for every weekday when I will primarily use it for the weekend. Unless I can run it at some ultra low feed rate...

I purchased my Castle Serenity for this exact purpose. It runs for one hour intervals four times a day to keep our new garage above freezing. It has been running flawlessly this way for two winters now. Settings and adjustments are as right out of the box. Has a fresh air intake. I use top shelf pellets only, LeCrete.

 

[earlyhike]

Your comm

I purchased my Castle Serenity for this exact purpose. It runs for one hour intervals four times a day to keep our new garage above freezing. It has been running flawlessly this way for two winters now. Settings and adjustments are as right out of the box. Has a fresh air intake. I use top shelf pellets only, LeCrete.

Thank you for the statement of confidence. I've been blaming my inexperience for these problems for a long time. I'm now putting the burden back on the company. Nice to know this is what it should be able to do.

 

[earlyhike]

Final report: Called Ardisan -maker of Castle stoves. Finally got through to tech support, and not long into the conversation they instructed me to call a local technician and have it billed to Ardisan. If I knew I wasn't going to foot the bill I might have tried harder to do this months ago.

Technician came today and experienced all my issues first hand (thankfully). He confirmed things were bad and I wasn't crazy. He also called it a "mystery mission" because the source wasn't obvious. The final conclusion was that the auger motor was bad, getting caught up and not properly feeding enough pellets. As things warm up, and loosen up it works well enough. But he said he could grab the auger and stop it with his hand which shouldn't be possible. So hopefully when this is replaced I can stop chasing ghosts and genuinely enjoy the stove as intended.

Thanks for all the efforts on here to help out!

 

[SidecarFlip]

Correct. Quadruple reduction gearboxes on the auger, you should not be able to stop rotation with your hand.. Glad that worked out.

 

[strongARM45acp]

Final report: Called Ardisan -maker of Castle stoves. Finally got through to tech support, and not long into the conversation they instructed me to call a local technician and have it billed to Ardisan. If I knew I wasn't going to foot the bill I might have tried harder to do this months ago.

Technician came today and experienced all my issues first hand (thankfully). He confirmed things were bad and I wasn't crazy. He also called it a "mystery mission" because the source wasn't obvious. The final conclusion was that the auger motor was bad, getting caught up and not properly feeding enough pellets. As things warm up, and loosen up it works well enough. But he said he could grab the auger and stop it with his hand which shouldn't be possible. So hopefully when this is replaced I can stop chasing ghosts and genuinely enjoy the stove as intended.

Thanks for all the efforts on here to help out!

What was the end game here? I am suffering the same exact fate thus far.


Thanks

 

[masterofsense666]

Hope you get it working fine. I've had mine for 3 seasons, worked 100% every time even after just sitting for
6 months. However, just replaced it with Harmon p43C. The Castle room fan made too much noise.