CB 5036 Quote. Sound fair?

[funbus]

Quote below is for a CB 5036 OWB. Quote is Canadian dollars. With tax I figure I would be looking at $18,000 which seems high to me but I'm interested in folks opinions.

The Classic CL-5036 is 9300 less 500 rebate till April 29th——— $8800 net plus hst Dual-Fuel Ready option-600 extra Burner- Actuator kit— 1400 extra
All supplies to do average installation incl. rad in furnace, water heater, all necessary piping 65’ from house, etc———————$3000 plus hst
Average installation—————————less pad and trenching———————————————————————————————————$1950 plus hst

 

[ihookem]

It seems real high to me. I was looking at CB 5036 about 5 yrs ago and they wanted 6300 bucks . Sure went up it seems. If I went with an OWB it would be Central Boiler though.

 

[rkusek]

You need to read more on this website before you shell out that kind of cash for an old school OWB. Read about the Garn Jr. or some of the gassers and you will change your mind on that purchase.

 

[funbus]

Yeah I thought it seemed high as well. I should mention $2000 of the cost is so we can get it equipped with a propane burner to run a backup fuel if we go away for a few days. What's the install like on one of these units? Can I do myself or is it worth paying this guy another $2000 for that?

I'm also not sure if the things included in the $3000 part above are all necessary. We already have a water heater. I thought you just connected something to the water heater to heat the water. Also not sure what he means by a rad. Do you think he is referring to a heat exchanger?

Brand new to this so sorry for the stupid questions.

 

[maple1]

Exactly what pipe is he using for the underground part?

 

[funbus]

I don't know what pipe he is using. This was just an initial email response and I'm hesitant to even reply based on these numbers but continue to shop for a better quote elsewhere. This figure doesn't even include trenching or a pad which I may do myself. I mean once I'm up around 20K then I'm ready to start thinking a geothermal quote because it is not much more and would be no work once installed.\

I haven't looked into the indoor setups enough yet. I'm hesitant because I didn't want to get into constructing an outbuilding and getting planning permission and all that.

 

[maple1]

Can't do indoors eh?

 

[funbus]

I have a basement but I don't even know what our insurer would say about that. They already charge us a premium for having an oil furnace down there. As for building, the one issue here is that we are pretty much on bedrock almost all around us. In places there are 2'-3' of soil but in other places it's rock right away. So I don't know what that means for trenching. If I did an external one I could run the pipe along side the weeping bed and then truck in some soil to bury it under a few feet of earth.

 

[rkusek]

Rad sounds like the heat exchanger for your existing furnace. Do you have a propane furnace now? If so, I wouldn't bother with the backup. That HX works almost as well in reverse and could use heat from your propance furnace to keep the boiler & piping from freezing. A self install is doable if you are comfortable working with this kind of stuff although contractor install might be required in certain areas or to maintain the warranty. $2000 might be money well spent. I don't own one or sell them but I think a Garn Jr. would fit the bill for many people that are able to afford it and burn a lot less wood than an OWB

 

[funbus]

We currently have an oil furnace. Can the heat exchanger work both ways with the oil furnace to heat the lines when the boiler is not running?

 

[harttj]

Don't bother with the propain burner and just set the oil to kick in. The propain is very inefficient on those.

 

[funbus]

Okay cool, thanks for that. You think the dealer might have mentioned that when I told him we had oil...

 

[BoilerMan]

Don't bother with the propain burner and just set the oil to kick in. The propain is very inefficient on those.

I would think burning anything in a thinly insulated steel "outbuilding" with a fire in it would be quite inefficient.

If you do a CB OWB just or any conventional type OWB, remember you could be burning less than 1/2 the wood with a secondary combustion boiler.
Just something to think about.

TS

 

[chewy]

Quote below is for a CB 5036 OWB. Quote is Canadian dollars. With tax I figure I would be looking at $18,000 which seems high to me but I'm interested in folks opinions.

The Classic CL-5036 is 9300 less 500 rebate till April 29th——— $8800 net plus hst Dual-Fuel Ready option-600 extra Burner- Actuator kit— 1400 extra
All supplies to do average installation incl. rad in furnace, water heater, all necessary piping 65’ from house, etc———————$3000 plus hst
Average installation—————————less pad and trenching———————————————————————————————————$1950 plus hst

Funbus,

Seriously consider taking your time, and read and learn about all of your options. As stated above the 5036 is not as efficient as many other options you should consider.

Trust me, I own one of the worst outdoor boilers there is. "Free heat machine" "hybrid fire". I load every 4-6 hrs when temps fall below 15*. It was supposed to heat 6000 sq ft and will only heat 2400 sq ft. Think long and hard if for the next ten years you want to nurse a stove outside at 2am when it's -15* out.

I know cb is more of a reputable company than my pos wood boiler, but you're getting ready to throw down some serious cash. Might as well weigh your options.

Just my .02

Erin

 

[cityboy172]

Don't bother with the propain burner and just set the oil to kick in. The propain is very inefficient on those.

Everything is real inefficient on those.

 

[flyingcow]

For the same money build an outbuilding put a gasser in it. You'll burn less wood, no smoke, etc.Basically what i did. For the same money as an E-classic i bought a gasser and storage. My boiler is not in my house.

 

[maple1]

How much would you seriously expect to use back up heat?

In my case, I yanked out ALL my oil stuff, and replaced it with a gassifying boiler, storage, and an electric boiler for backup heat. And a new electric DHW tank. My insurance company has no problem with a wood boiler in my basment, but they didn't seem to have a problem with the oil either - except that they were about to make me replace my oil tank for some silly 'best before' reason.

You're getting lots of feedback here - but the main concern in all of it is that you FULLY evaluate this. Start with visualizing your oil stuff all gone, and the space it would leave behind (and chimney it would free up), and what you could do with that space. Especially if your insurance seems to be dinging you for having oil. That seems to be an odd one, but they should then like you if you get rid of it.

You mentioned checking out a propane burner for the CB - so do you have propane on site already? That opens up more possibilities & would make it even easier for me to get rid of the oil. Don't suppose there's natural gas in your area?

OWBs might have their attractions, but they have their shortcomings too that people only seem to realize after they get to living with them. Then it's too late.

 

[funbus]

For the same money build an outbuilding put a gasser in it. You'll burn less wood, no smoke, etc.Basically what i did. For the same money as an E-classic i bought a gasser and storage. My boiler is not in my house.

How much storage does your tarm and storage take flyingcow? I think I can build a 10x10' outbuilding without planning permission. Can even cheat a little since we are rural and neighbours are distant. Much bigger though and I would need to get planning permission. Actually it is 100 sf allowance so could be 9x12 or another configuration. Once concern I have with an outbuilding is the underground trenching if we have to go any distance from the house. We have a lot of bedrock!

 

[funbus]

How much would you seriously expect to use back up heat?

You mentioned checking out a propane burner for the CB - so do you have propane on site already? That opens up more possibilities & would make it even easier for me to get rid of the oil. Don't suppose there's natural gas in your area?

OWBs might have their attractions, but they have their shortcomings too that people only seem to realize after they get to living with them. Then it's too late.

We would only expect to use backup heat when away during winter which generally amounts to a couple long weekends over the winter to see in-laws. So not much backup heat at all - maybe 7 days max per winter.

 

[funbus]

Thanks everyone for the feedback particularly the strong message I am getting on gassers and storage. I think I need to start looking into the tarms and garns a bit more. Anyone know what a garn runs for in Canada? I have not been able to locate any info on those. I found a tarm dealer in Markland, Ontario and those units seem really well priced. Couple other questions about these models:

- how big will my outbuilding need to be? Tarm looks a lot smaller than Garn although I guess the storage is built in with garn.
- for a Tarm, how large a tank would be adequate for my heating needs? 2200 sf house plus basement
- how often do you need to feed these beasts? I see on the garn site they mention that their optimal heating output number is based on feeding every 3 hours. I assume that is no where near as often as it needs to be fed in order to keep the house warm though.
- what is the preferred backup heating method with these units?

Thanks all!

 

[funbus]

Funbus,

Trust me, I own one of the worst outdoor boilers there is. "Free heat machine" "hybrid fire". I load every 4-6 hrs when temps fall below 15*. It was supposed to heat 6000 sq ft and will only heat 2400 sq ft. Think long and hard if for the next ten years you want to nurse a stove outside at 2am when it's -15* out.

Erin

Ouch. I do not want this!

 

[funbus]

One more question about garn/tarm:

Can I burn pine if it is well seasoned? I have a lot of pine as well as hardwoods.

 

[maple1]

You can burn pine in anything, as long as it is seasoned.

If now thinking storage - you could also put that in the basement with boiler outside. Maybe where your oil unit is now? And/or oil tank? That would free up your shed for the boiler - and some wood storage. Maybe the rest of your wood in a wood shed next to it or a lean-to. If you already have propane, and plan to keep it (use it for other things?), I would also consider a small propane direct vent or the like for backup heat. I went with an electric boiler since we are only gone for 2 days a winter, and it was a cheap & easy install that takes up next to no space and doesn't need a chimney. I would check out what you would have to do to make a shed/building big enough to hold your boiler, and your entire winters wood - it might not be as bad as you're thinking, red tape wise.

My typical winter burning schedule with a gassifier & 660 gallons of storage (both in my basement):

-Start fire late afternoon/supper time.
-Reload after 3-4 hours, reload on way to bed if needed (usually only part load).
-Repeat next day.

That amounted to about 6 hours of actual burn time on a typical winter day. On the coldest of winter days, I would light the fire earlier, maybe around noon, and burn time would go to 10-12 hours a day. Storage gives great flexibility with schedules - if I was going to be gone all day, I would just start a burn on the way out in the morning, then do another when I got back.

 

[funbus]

Thanks maple1. That sounds doable. We are at work during the day so would probably throw wood on in the morning as well. Good to know pine is fine if seasoned.

We don't have propane so would probably go with the electric backup. I'd say in a typical winter we would only be away twice for a maximum of 3-4 days each.

If the boiler is in the out building and the storage internal, would you need to heat the outbuilding at all? I would assume the boiler would provide enough ambient heat to keep it from freezing up? Sorry, probably a stupid question. But if I went with a garn externally would it need to have the building heated?

 

[maple1]

I think I would just insulate the outbuilding very well, and plug in an electric heater just in case. Although with mine all indoors, I haven't had to consider that aspect before - others can chime in on that with their experiences.

One other thing I will emphasize as it may not be obvious to you yet - with a boiler tied to storage, and batch burning, you will need to build a new fire every day. Or maybe two if you do burn morning & evening. That was the biggest initial change for me from my old one - with it, I made a fire sometime in October & just kept adding to it until sometime in May. But I have gotten used to that & wouldn't go back to the old way of operation for anything - all the advantages of batch burning far outweigh any inconvenience of making a new fire every day.