Chainsaw Long Range Tank System

[Vonz]

Hi there,

I am about to design a portable tank system in order to push back the problem of refueling your chainsaw every 10mns. Refueling is sometimes necessary in the middle of a crucial cut, and I feel exposed to safety issues caused to that. I can see a lot of reason to try my best to extend operating time with such a system.

The system would be made of a small 5/6L backpack, gravity feeding the saw with both bar oil and fuel mix. Backpack connected to the saw by a small loom with a belt clip to provide the best mobility. Backpack can be hung onto a tripod or a tree nearby. The goal would be to take the autonomy to one hour of non stop operation.

What do you chainsaw people think of this one.

Vonz
[^]PanTechnical inc.

 

[Rossco]

Sounds like a good idea although a rocket pack on my back don't sound to appealing.

What saw are you using? Must be big to need fuel more than once during a firewood run?

I can cut a whole truck load on one tank.

 

[Bioburner]

Don't think I have ever tore into anything more than four foot.
Portable generators regularly now have auxiliary tanks and not difficult to replicate. Oil side would have to be closely monitored as it could starve and quickly ruin things.

 

[Hoozie]

How small is your saw's tank if you're refueling every 10 minutes?

The few times I do start a hairy cut, I stop first and make sure it's topped off of oil & gas...

 

[CRE10]

Umm even my ported saws don't require fuel every 10 minutes, even my 441 plus I like touching up the chain and having a beer after every tank

I can't recall of the top of my head, but Stihls are designed to last for a certain number of minutes wot for gas and oil. It's longer than 10 I'll tell ya.

 

[Vonz]

MS660 Magnum.

I get 20mns run on a lucky day plus refueling gets my hands dirty, If I could run it for one hour non stop it would be a good improvement.

If you hang the tank off a tree nearby, no rocket pack.

What is the autonomy you are getting with your saws? Honestly

 

[firefighterjake]

A few thoughts . . .

Maybe I'm just slow, but it seems as though my chainsaw runs quite a while before I need to refuel it . . . and usually that's about when I'm ready to take a short break anyways.

Other thought . . . not sure I would want a dangling gas/oil line whether hanging from my belt, back or nearby tree . . . just something to get snagged . . . which in itself could present a safety issue.

If I'm about to tear into something questionable . . . such as a large tree that I need to bring down . . . I generally make sure it is fueled up and ready to go so I don't run out of fuel partway through the cut. If I am bucking up wood, running out of fuel is not a big deal.

Guessing I would not be interested in such a system.

 

[Jon1270]

If you hang the tank off a tree nearby, no rocket pack.

In what circumstance would one be operating a chainsaw for long periods of time while standing in one spot, in roughly the same position? All of the saw work I've done has involved a lot of moving around.

To me this sounds like an encumbrance and a hazard, a cure worse than the disease. Liability concerns might kill it outright as a potential commercial product. But hey, if you have a vision of awesomeness, then more power to you. If it were obviously a good idea then someone would've done it already, but it could be a non-obvious good idea.

 

[CRE10]

If you're worried about getting your hands dirty then No Spill Jill's jugs are your hero

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[Jags]

I could see something like this on a chainsaw mill, but not so much for in the bush. As much as I move around, I would need it to be on my back...and I am not real sure that I like the idea of packing gasoline on my back or the dangly bits that would come along with the system.

 

[saskwoodburner]

Umm even my ported saws don't require fuel every 10 minutes, even my 441 plus I like touching up the chain and having a beer after every tank

I can't recall of the top of my head, but Stihls are designed to last for a certain number of minutes wot for gas and oil. It's longer than 10 I'll tell ya.

I have a little Husky 240 (38cc I think), and I could treat it like a rented mule, and couldn't run out of fuel in 10 minutes. And it only holds a squirt of fuel.

So if you add a tank that makes the saw run for an hour, wouldn't you need the same for bar oil? And while I'm new to chainsaws, wouldn't you be running a saw too hard, giving 'er for an hour non stop?

 

[Dairyman]

I hate refueling in the field as well. My solution was to bring more saws.[emoji41]

 

[CountryBoy19]

Sounds like a solution in search of a problem to me... My modded MS170 runs dang near an hour before needing a re-fuel. My Dolkita 6401 runs well over 30 minutes on a fill-up. I think something is wrong with your saw if you're only getting 10 mins.

Problems I see with this:
Decreased mobility with a backpack
Decreased balance and grace with fuel "sloshing" around on your back
Great chance of cutting the fuel-oil lines if you're not careful
Extra "dangly bits" to get caught up in
Restricted movement of saw
Restricted ability to very quickly egress the AO if something goes wrong and the saw is stuck or there is no time to grab it (you're tied to the saw)
Increased weight on the operator adding to fatigue

I'm sure there are a number of other issues that I'm overlooking. Either way, I think your target market/audience will be VERY limited to mostly stationary use (chainsaw mill etc). I wouldn't buy one and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[Jags]

Restricted ability to very quickly egress the AO if something goes wrong and the saw is stuck or there is no time to grab it (you're tied to the saw)

There is no way I would be tethered to a saw during the felling of a tree. No way.

(gonna have to ™ the "dangly bits.)

 

[TreePointer]

I don't see an improvement here.Taking breaks to limit operator fatigue is part of chainsaw safety. Also, there's no way OSHA would approve operating a cutting device like a chainsaw with a secondary or remote fuel supply attached to the operator.

 

[Vonz]

Thanks for your replies. Challenging the concept was the idea.

Who works regularly on a chainsaw mill. What is it like.

 

[Chimney Smoke]

My saw is ready for a cool down break if it's been running non stop on one tank of gas.

 

[Vonz]

Thanks for the great responses. Challenging the concept was the idea.

Who uses chainsaw mill regularly. What is it like on the fuel side of things.

- Dangly bits: On the plan there are a number of hooking points that pretty much reduces the dangeliness to zero.
- Sloshing: This can be reduced to a very minimum with a mix of materials that keeps the fluids airtight and snug fit ensuring normal balance.
- Restriction of movements: No dangling, no sloshing.
- Tied to the saw issue: Quick release valve fittings. Can move away from the saw at anytime, the loom will disconnect and block the fluids.
- Weight: A 3kg, snug pack is not much to worry about for me personally.

I think I need to build a prototype and go from there, see how it goes.

 

[Oldman47]

Keep trying Vonz. I am sure you will eventually come up with something that people really want. This does not appear to be one of those.

 

[Vonz]

Hi Oldman. Well you would be surprised if you knew how people really work. Most people actually don't really know what they want, especially unless they have tried something or have seen someone dear to them using something. It comes down to some sort of psychology, users behaviors are a bit all over the place to be honest.

I think this mobility tank thing really can be a good idea, I mean, no one really have tried it on and unless this happens we will all be just assuming its bad because it is a new "thing". This is called natural rigidity of market. I'm fully the experimental type of bloke and will build this system when I get the time.

Yes you have sussed me out right, like my logo says, I am pan technical so researching on all types of techniques.

Thanks for the kind words Oldman, you keep trying too! That's how we do it.

 

[TreePointer]

Yes you have sussed me out right, like my logo says, I am pan technical so researching on all types of techniques.

We're used to it. "We" being veteran forum members of various trade or hobby websites. Most don't mind if someone comes in and wants to test an idea or perform some type of market research. Those who try to hide their agendas sometimes come off as trolls and are not appreciated. Those who try to push a product for their own financial benefit are usually smacked down by moderators. As always, follow forum rules. Best of luck to you!

 

[rkshed]

A similar concept was tried/used years ago in the off road motorcycle world. Small, handlebar mounted tanks (in place of the number plate) and rear fender mounted tanks, both with fuel lines. Neither worked great as aftermarket goodies. They were wicked fun to watch as your riding buddy bounced down the trail with his rear fender swinging around on the fuel line, only seconds away from ripping it free on a tree or root which proceeded to drain ALL of his gas. Oh, he'd beg for some of yours but hey, I told you it looked stupid. Ahh, those were the days.
The end result is simply larger capacity aftermarket tanks in the bike world and could be the same for saws. Something like a small auxiliary tank that screwed right on and replaced the current gas cap. Sort of like a big tumor, just hanging there...it could work but I like the beer at refill time idea

 

[Vonz]

We're used to it. "We" being veteran forum members of various trade or hobby websites. Most don't mind if someone comes in and wants to test an idea or perform some type of market research. Those who try to hide their agendas sometimes come off as trolls and are not appreciated. Those who try to push a product for their own financial benefit are usually smacked down by moderators. As always, follow forum rules. Best of luck to you!

Innovation business and independent R&D is really about making the world a better place I do believe and it's far to be the easiest trade, usually people don't like ye.... But they love you when you really make their life easier and yes there is some financial benefit however we all need to eat at least a bit.

I do apologize if you find my questions offensive, meanwhile I do not have much choice but approach specialists, this is necessary for the development of any system.

 

[Vonz]

A similar concept was tried/used years ago in the off road motorcycle world. Small, handlebar mounted tanks (in place of the number plate) and rear fender mounted tanks, both with fuel lines. Neither worked great as aftermarket goodies. They were wicked fun to watch as your riding buddy bounced down the trail with his rear fender swinging around on the fuel line, only seconds away from ripping it free on a tree or root which proceeded to drain ALL of his gas. Oh, he'd beg for some of yours but hey, I told you it looked stupid. Ahh, those were the days.
The end result is simply larger capacity aftermarket tanks in the bike world and could be the same for saws. Something like a small auxiliary tank that screwed right on and replaced the current gas cap. Sort of like a big tumor, just hanging there...it could work but I like the beer at refill time idea

Innovation is a risky business indeed, you can easily look like a goose if you don't do your homework right.

Now your tumor type tank is a good idea too, it can be worth trying I reckon, but only if there is indeed at least a small-ish market for long range tank in the chainsaw world. I keep thinking there is.

 

[TreePointer]

Innovation business and independent R&D is really about making the world a better place I do believe and it's far to be the easiest trade, usually people don't like ye.... But they love you when you really make their life easier and yes there is some financial benefit however we all need to eat at least a bit.

I do apologize if you find my questions offensive, meanwhile I do not have much choice but approach specialists, this is necessary for the development of any system.

Naw, you didn't offend me, and I apologize if I gave the impression that I thought you had been trolling or pushing a product too hard. I've read and even been part of some interesting discussions of ideas for new products or improvements in this forum and others.

My point was that we weren't unaccustomed to seeing someone bounce around an idea for a new product or improvement. Nothing wrong with that, IMO.

On the other hand we've also seen trolls, spammers, psychology experiments (forum members as unwitting subjects), product pushers, and contrarians. These things are not appreciated and generally are violations of a discussion forum's policy.