circ. pump question

[huffdawg]

Does it matter if a circ pump is pulling from a tank or pushing to a tank. Plumbing in my circ. pump from primary tank to storage tank.

Thanx. Huff.

 

[Hunderliggur]

Assuming you have a closed system, no there is not significant difference. What is a primary tank in relation to a storage tank?

 

[huffdawg]

Assuming you have a closed system, no there is not significant difference. What is a primary tank in relation to a storage tank?

Sorry its a buffer tank primary loop. 150 gal.
thanx huff

 

[infinitymike]

I'm not a plumber but I've heard it said that they can wear out sooner because of the hot water flowing through them. With that said I am in the process of hooking up my wood gun and will be putting a circ on the top of the unit to push/supply hotwater 70 feet to my primary loop and back to the boiler. I'll let you know when I goes bad.

 

[huffdawg]

Here's some pic's of the primary tank.

 

[goosegunner]

Lets see some better pictures of your vent hood.

gg

 

[BoilerBob]

Huff, nice looking setup, but I think your boiler would work better if it had a "B" on the loading door. Ha Ha
Go "B"s Go.
Paul

 

[huffdawg]

Huff, nice looking setup, but I think your boiler would work better if it had a "B" on the loading door. Ha Ha
Go "B"s Go.
Paul

I used to be a Bruins fan before 1970 ,my dad was a bruins fan too. Than we had to jump ship when we got our own team here.
Sure hurt when Neely got traded to Boston.

 

[in hot water]

Nice! It common to see the circ pumping into the boiler with restrictive heat exchangers type boilers, like many of the mod con types. This way the boiler HX sees the pressure increase the pump provides and helps keep them from flashing.

In your case with "wide open" boiler passageways it would not matter. Cooler is always better for a motor, so on the return you would be in a cooler flow, the pumps are typically rated to 225F operating max.

Add a float type air vent on top of your buffer tank, in that ball valve. That is a great place to slow the flow and capture air in that domed up section.

Calculate the entire water volume to size an expansion tank, that one looks a tad small?.

hr

 

[huffdawg]

Nice! It common to see the circ pumping into the boiler with restrictive heat exchangers type boilers, like many of the mod con types. This way the boiler HX sees the pressure increase the pump provides and helps keep them from flashing.

In your case with "wide open" boiler passageways it would not matter. Cooler is always better for a motor, so on the return you would be in a cooler flow, the pumps are typically rated to 225F operating max.

Add a float type air vent on top of your buffer tank, in that ball valve. That is a great place to slow the flow and capture air in that domed up section.

Calculate the entire water volume to size an expansion tank, that one looks a tad small?.

hr

Thanx you gave me the idea a while back. I ripped out my primary loop with closely spaced tees that I installed. Then I replaced it with that buffer tank. I have an extrol 60 gal. exp. tank that I will replace that small one with tommorrow.
What would be the the best way to pipe the storage tank in . Top of primary tank to top of storage, bottom of storage to bottom of primary? with the circ pump pulling from the bottom of storage.
Huff

 

[huffdawg]

Lets see some better pictures of your vent hood.

gg

Here u go GG

Its not piped in yet

 

[goosegunner]

Lets see some better pictures of your vent hood.

gg

Here u go GG

Its not piped in yet

Very nice! I could use something like that in My shed. What are your plans for ducting and fan?

gg

 

[Gasifier]

Sweet hood Huffdawg. Very nice looking set-up.

 

[DaveBP]

Is your primary tank intentionally set up as a hydraulic separator by design?

 

[ewdudley]

Here's some pic's of the primary tank.

I can see how hot water gets from boiler to primary tank, but how does hot water get from boiler (or primary tank) to storage? How does hot water get from storage to primary tank? Are you going to use two pumps from primary tank to storage, one going one way and one going the other? How would you control that?

 

[huffdawg]

Is your primary tank intentionally set up as a hydraulic separator by design?

Yes with my house loads about 50' away I thought it woud be easier to be able to run my shop loads while replumbing my house loads. Instead of having one big primary loop that went all the way to the house that all loads tee'd off of ,I can now Isolate the loop going to the house from the primary tank.
I hope that makes sense.

Cheers Huff

 

[huffdawg]

Here's some pic's of the primary tank.

I can see how hot water gets from boiler to primary tank, but how does hot water get from boiler (or primary tank) to storage? How does hot water get from storage to primary tank? Are you going to use two pumps from primary tank to storage, one going one way and one going the other? How would you control that?

I'm not sure yet Eliot . Do you or anyone else have any ideas.

Thanx Huff

 

[Donl]

Here's some pic's of the primary tank.

I can see how hot water gets from boiler to primary tank, but how does hot water get from boiler (or primary tank) to storage? How does hot water get from storage to primary tank? Are you going to use two pumps from primary tank to storage, one going one way and one going the other? How would you control that?

I'm not sure yet Eliot . Do you or anyone else have any ideas.

Thanx Huff

Do you have a diagram of your plan?

 

[huffdawg]

Here's some pic's of the primary tank.

I can see how hot water gets from boiler to primary tank, but how does hot water get from boiler (or primary tank) to storage? How does hot water get from storage to primary tank? Are you going to use two pumps from primary tank to storage, one going one way and one going the other? How would you control that?

I'm not sure yet Eliot . Do you or anyone else have any ideas.

Thanx Huff

Do you have a diagram of your plan?

Heres a rough sketch Don . There are 1-1/4" ports plumbed into the primary tank for the storage already.

 

[in hot water]

Flow reversal can be done a couple ways. On mine I have two pumps facing each other. But remember the internal checks need to be removed I'm not that pleased with the operation it tends to thermosiphon when the checks are left out.

I will try a 4 way valve with a motor that drives it from one extreme to the other. I had a sample of this valve a few years back to correct a radiant job that had a 1000' loop installed! The valve would flow into the loop from one end for 30 minutes, then flow from them other for 30 minutes. It actually did help the floor temperature even out by flip flopping the flow.

The valve was built up by Leif at Paxton. Basically it had a Honeywell 24V actuator motor bolted on. I think Bellimo also offers this actuator.

So when the boiler tank is hot a ∆ T control starts the pump with valve allowing flow as in the top drawing. When the storage is within 5 degrees of the boiler tank the pump stops. A second ∆ T function would start them pump, flop the valve and take that energy out of the storage and back to the boiler tank.

At least that is how I imagine this control logic to work. I'm open for suggestions.

The heat loads all pull from that boiler/ separator tank.

hr

 

[ewdudley]

Heres a rough sketch Don . There are 1-1/4" ports plumbed into the primary tank for the storage already.

Do you think it would work to pipe the boiler directly to storage, and then have a loop that runs from storage to the primary tank? Then the boiler always knows what to do and so does the pump from storage to primary.

 

[huffdawg]

Lets see some better pictures of your vent hood.

gg

Here u go GG

Its not piped in yet

Very nice! I could use something like that in My shed. What are your plans for ducting and fan?

gg

I have a 1200 cfpm inline fan and will run the exhaust out through the wall of the boiler room. I have a plugin that is switched that I will connect it to.

 

[huffdawg]

Heres a rough sketch Don . There are 1-1/4" ports plumbed into the primary tank for the storage already.

Do you think it would work to pipe the boiler directly to storage, and then have a loop that runs from storage to the primary tank? Then the boiler always knows what to do and so does the pump from storage to primary.

Would having a pump pulling from the top of the primary to the bottom of storage then from the top of storage to the bottom of the primary work . Wouldnt it be like one big storage tank then?

Huff

 

[huffdawg]

Heres a rough sketch Don . There are 1-1/4" ports plumbed into the primary tank for the storage already.

Do you think it would work to pipe the boiler directly to storage, and then have a loop that runs from storage to the primary tank? Then the boiler always knows what to do and so does the pump from storage to primary.

Eliot wouldnt it take quite a long time to have usable energy that way. I spent a full day plumbin the boiler circ . to the primary tank I'm hoping there is a way to plumb in storage to the primary without having to take apart the boiler circuit.
Is there a way to not charge storage until all DHW. and heating loads are satisfied.

Cheers

 

[huffdawg]

Flow reversal can be done a couple ways. On mine I have two pumps facing each other. But remember the internal checks need to be removed I'm not that pleased with the operation it tends to thermosiphon when the checks are left out.

I will try a 4 way valve with a motor that drives it from one extreme to the other. I had a sample of this valve a few years back to correct a radiant job that had a 1000' loop installed! The valve would flow into the loop from one end for 30 minutes, then flow from them other for 30 minutes. It actually did help the floor temperature even out by flip flopping the flow.

The valve was built up by Leif at Paxton. Basically it had a Honeywell 24V actuator motor bolted on. I think Bellimo also offers this actuator.

So when the boiler tank is hot a ∆ T control starts the pump with valve allowing flow as in the top drawing. When the storage is within 5 degrees of the boiler tank the pump stops. A second ∆ T function would start them pump, flop the valve and take that energy out of the storage and back to the boiler tank.

At least that is how I imagine this control logic to work. I'm open for suggestions.

The heat loads all pull from that boiler/ separator tank.

hr

How much was that actuator valve worth HR.