Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Im sure there are plenty of stoves that can heat a 900Sq ft insulated room even with 20ft ceiling. With heat to spare. I know my Harman would chase you out of that room.
Cold and unusual space
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
I’ve been watching this thread with interest, but hadn’t had a chance to respond. I have a similar issue to you, a long house that can’t be practically heated from a central location. As others here have already suggested, my solution is a stove near either end, although the “wings” on your home look small enough that it might be a challenge placing a stove in each wing. Also, you cannot place stoves in bedrooms, and I imagine at least one wing is exactly that.
Additionally, the primary space of 30’ diameter x 20’ high is going to have a heat load similar to a 1500 sq.ft. space of more normal ceiling height. Add the openings to the wings, which will move some amount of heat, and maybe consider it a 2000 - 2500 sq.ft. equivalent load.
If installing stoves in the wings is not an option, I’d be looking to install a stove in that central space that is rated 2000 - 2500 sq.ft., and perhaps placing a small desk fan on the floor far into each corridor, blowing cold air along the floor toward the central space. This will cause warm air in the central space to naturally return to the wings, due to displacement effect.
If you have a central heating system with returns in the wings and supplies in the central space, or it can be blocked off to work as such, this could be used for circulation, by moving cold air from the wings to the central space. However, usually using such a system to take warm out out of one space and move it to another, the reverse of what I describe, nearly always fails due to losses in the ductwork or the air handler (which are often located in cold spaces). Also, if those systems are your primary central heating, you’d usually do better to just let them run as normal, with the stove being a baseline contributor to the net heating requirements. In other words, I’d probably abandon the idea of using the air handlers on the central system solely for distribution.
Which brings us around to a usage profile I’ve put out on this forum so many times that folks are probably getting tired of hearing about it. I’m heating a space too large to practically heat 100% with wood, and after a couple of painful years trying but ultimately failing to do this, I resigned myself to a much better method which I think might be the way for you to roll. Just install a stove where it’s convenient for you, in this case that fireplace in the central space, and load it on a schedule that works for you. Keep your central heating running on their programmable thermostats, keeping the entire living space well-balanced and comfortable, while putting one heck of a big dent in your baseline load. I have been doing this several years now, and just posted some of the economics for it (my case) recently in another thread, it can be a great way to save a huge amount of money on your primary heating fuel without sacrificing comfort and convenience.
Additionally, the primary space of 30’ diameter x 20’ high is going to have a heat load similar to a 1500 sq.ft. space of more normal ceiling height. Add the openings to the wings, which will move some amount of heat, and maybe consider it a 2000 - 2500 sq.ft. equivalent load.
If installing stoves in the wings is not an option, I’d be looking to install a stove in that central space that is rated 2000 - 2500 sq.ft., and perhaps placing a small desk fan on the floor far into each corridor, blowing cold air along the floor toward the central space. This will cause warm air in the central space to naturally return to the wings, due to displacement effect.
If you have a central heating system with returns in the wings and supplies in the central space, or it can be blocked off to work as such, this could be used for circulation, by moving cold air from the wings to the central space. However, usually using such a system to take warm out out of one space and move it to another, the reverse of what I describe, nearly always fails due to losses in the ductwork or the air handler (which are often located in cold spaces). Also, if those systems are your primary central heating, you’d usually do better to just let them run as normal, with the stove being a baseline contributor to the net heating requirements. In other words, I’d probably abandon the idea of using the air handlers on the central system solely for distribution.
Which brings us around to a usage profile I’ve put out on this forum so many times that folks are probably getting tired of hearing about it. I’m heating a space too large to practically heat 100% with wood, and after a couple of painful years trying but ultimately failing to do this, I resigned myself to a much better method which I think might be the way for you to roll. Just install a stove where it’s convenient for you, in this case that fireplace in the central space, and load it on a schedule that works for you. Keep your central heating running on their programmable thermostats, keeping the entire living space well-balanced and comfortable, while putting one heck of a big dent in your baseline load. I have been doing this several years now, and just posted some of the economics for it (my case) recently in another thread, it can be a great way to save a huge amount of money on your primary heating fuel without sacrificing comfort and convenience.
jetsam
Minister of Fire
How insulated is the ceiling on that big turret in the middle? That might actually influence my decision to try to heat from the middle or not.
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Yes but they aren't heating just 3000 sf. They are heating 3000 ft of 70s construction from a central room with 20' ceilings.
Jan Pijpelink
Minister of Fire
I suggested the Regency F5200, which seems to have a 4cf+ firebox. Maybe even 2.
That would have to be freestanding with a new chimney and it's a basic steel box. Given their parameters (rear vent, attractive and 3 cu ft.) I suggest starting with a Hearthstone Manchester.
This makes a lot of sense to me. I appreciate your similar experience. You are correct, it is not feasible to place a stove at the entrance to each wing. One side is open, with arches, to the dining room-->kitchen-->laundry--> office. If you go the other way, there is a long hallway facing the front of the house with bedrooms and bathroom coming off the hallway. Strangely, this long hall has non-closing heat vents, so the hall is warm, while the bedrooms are not!
It is so interesting to read everyone's responses. You all may find it amusing that our new installers, when told of the problem, said basically, "No problem. We can make it work." So, we'll see what they come up with!
As you suggest, even adding the wood stove to the overall heating solution for the house will be a great improvement and may be the best we can hope for.
It appears to be well insulated. Not sure what's under there, but it's a rubber roof and the snow does not melt quickly.
I don't know the answer to this, but, the walls are thick. The ceilings are all high, though. You can't tell, but there are 4 different levels to this house and no basement.
No basement; garage is separate. We bought firewood for this year, but we have cut quite a bit to dry. We have 9 acres with a lot of good timber for burning (but I am not ready for the "what kind of wood do you burn?" questions yet!). I would have to research what you are talking about, because I have no clue about hydronic systems.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
'Hydronic' just means 'hot water'.
A wood-fired boiler may be a great sensible way to go, but there's no way I'd endure the work and inconveniences associated with wood burning, just to hide it in the basement where I can't enjoy it. And yes, this is where some smart poster will point out you can still use the fireplace in this scenario, but that's frankly counter-productive.
It's a compromise, but likely not a bad one, to just put a pretty but reliable heater of a stove or insert into that fireplace, and keep feeding it wood. It's not going to do 100% of your heating, but it's going to put one hell of a big dent in the bill.
A wood-fired boiler may be a great sensible way to go, but there's no way I'd endure the work and inconveniences associated with wood burning, just to hide it in the basement where I can't enjoy it. And yes, this is where some smart poster will point out you can still use the fireplace in this scenario, but that's frankly counter-productive.
It's a compromise, but likely not a bad one, to just put a pretty but reliable heater of a stove or insert into that fireplace, and keep feeding it wood. It's not going to do 100% of your heating, but it's going to put one hell of a big dent in the bill.
I've been looking at Hearthstone. Is the Manchester big enough? What about the Equinox 800? As for the Regency F5200, why would I need a new chimney for that? Did I miss another suggestion?
weatherguy
Minister of Fire
Oh, sorry, we wouldn't go through the bottom of the fireplace, but through the thimble in the wall about 10 ft. above the fireplace. We could go through the bottom, I suppose, but how would that affect the draft? Isn't it better to have it top vented?
We are lacking in details to know all the options. The Manchester is one of the largest rear-vent stoves that looks good that should fit on the hearth and vent through a 6" liner. If you want to vent it into a liner in the fireplace chimney then the stove need to either fit on the hearth and rear vent or it will need a separate chimney. Or is that a chimney thimble sitting above the fireplace?
What are your priorities? Looks, heat output? Vent through the fireplace or separate chimney? Do you know the ID of the chimney liner?
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We want to vent it into that "thimble" above the fireplace. We have a granite slab to set the stove on in front of the fireplace. By "separate chimney," do you just mean the pipe going up from the stove that will then go into the chimney liner through the opening in the wall above ?
Another option mentioned to us is an insert, which would cover up the rounded fireplace, making it rectangle. But, I've never heard good things about inserts.
Tell us more about the "thimble". Is this a separate flue or did someone just tap in above the fireplace? Is there a clay liner in the chimney? What is the ID of the chimney?
YES, that is the chimney thimble up there above the fireplace. The installers said they were going to use a 6" insulated steel liner. Heat output is very important, but it does need to look good, as well. I was hoping the Equinox 800 would fit the bill.
Tapped into the fireplace chimney. Yes, clay liner, but running a steel 6" insulated one with the stove install. Someone asked if it could be 8". Maybe. Is that what you mean by "ID?"
Yes, with a 6" liner a stove like the Hearthstone Manchester or Jotul F55 are worth looking at.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Agreed that using the beautiful, but inefficient, fireplace even with hydronic would be negative gains. I was more thinking a small or medium sized cast iron or soapstone stove.
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