Condor prob off by 350F !

[Pallet Pete]

We have been having a few issues with the draft on the new stove or so we thought ! Today I got so tired of looking the stove over and over trying to find the problem that I stuck the condor in the oven at 200F then put a meat thermometer next to it . The condor was at 550F while the oven was set for 200F the meat thermometer was at 200F give or take 2F. How in the world can it be off 350F ! That is totally nuts for a $30 probe thermometer what a wast of money that was. Next time I am testing it in the oven before I use it!

Pete

 

[Corey]

Is this a thermocouple probe? Any chance the display unit is set for a different thermocouple type than is attached at the probe?

 

[Pallet Pete]

Is this a thermocouple probe? Any chance the display unit is set for a different thermocouple type than is attached at the probe?

No it is a insert probe with a spring. I have been looking at a thermocouple probe but have not convince myself that they are better yet ! ( till tonight that is ) Do you have any experience with them or any knowledge about them?

Thanks
Pete

 

[pen]

The problem with sticking the probe thermometer in an oven is that the entire unit is submersed in the same exact heat. By design, the probe part is meant to be hot and the face should be cooler since it is outside of the environment that it is measuring the temperature of. In other words, it's not meant to be used or read accurately in an oven.

With that said, I'm not claiming that your probe does or does not read as accurately; but rather the test you just put it through is flawed.

Here's a bunch of info that relates to what I found out with these. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/51149/ If you care to read through it you'll see some of the ways us guys on here tried testing these as well as condar's response. At the end of the day, condar still claimed that in their test situations that their probes (even the exact one I was questioning) read accurately. However, they did end up changing their packaging sometime in the last year or so to no longer recommend its use on single wall stove pipe.

pen

 

[Pallet Pete]

The problem with sticking the probe thermometer in an oven is that the entire unit is submersed in the same exact heat. By design, the probe part is meant to be hot and the face should be cooler since it is outside of the environment that it is measuring the temperature of. In other words, it's not meant to be used or read accurately in an oven.

With that said, I'm not claiming that your probe does or does not read as accurately; but rather the test you just put it through is flawed.

Here's a bunch of info that relates to what I found out with these. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/51149/ If you care to read through it you'll see some of the ways us guys on here tried testing these as well as condar's response. At the end of the day, condar still claimed that in their test situations that their probes (even the exact one I was questioning) read accurately. However, they did end up changing their packaging sometime in the last year or so to no longer recommend its use on single wall stove pipe.

pen

Thanks Pen I must say thats a lot of info to digest at once! I guess my stroke of genius was not so genius after all. :lol: Well at this point after craming all that into my brain I am thinking we are going to be getting a digital flue probe for our pipe. My faith in the condor is gone now and I don't feel safe using something that is off by such a large amount in the high end. Thank you for all your research Pen.

Pete

Edited sorry the spell check likes to miss spell and change words on me lol

 

[pen]

After all the messing around by a bunch of us on the site in that thread I referenced, what I walked away with is the belief that the condar probes read consistently. Depending on the setup, they may or may not be accurate. However, if you use other indicators such as burn time, stove top temp, chimney cleanliness, etc, you can ignore the suggested burn zones on the probe and use your own "redline" and "too cool" temp.

For my stove and chimney setup and the condar probe I am using now, if it reads 1050 or higher when the stove is settled in and cruising, that correlates to a stove top that is about as hot as I like to take it (750-800) and reading has held consistent for 2 years now. On startup, I try and keep it under 1100 as a max. If that norm ever starts to vary (the probe starts reading something different at max stove top temps) then I will begin figuring out which thermometer is going nuts.

I ended up finding a discontinued 3-19 probe. According to condar it is the same as the 3-39 but I like the straight numbers and lack of the recommended burn temps. This keeps things simpler for the Mrs.

The picture shown was taken by BeGreen as we were messing around with these things.

Here is the thread he made on the topic. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/70117/

pen

 

[Pallet Pete]

Here is what is going on with my flue Pen maybe this will help out.

1) fire up stove and get a good coal bed Temps 350F stove 450F ish flue
2) load er up to the top of bricks
3) starts burning good reads 600F flue 500 Stovetop
4) shut air down 800F flue within 10 minutes
5) if I do not shut air All the way down the flue will hit 1100F while stove is 600 max

I installed a damper which helped at first but now it does nothing. As the flue was running away the other day I shut the damper and made sure the flue was shut. The secondary was going to town and the flue dropped to 800F with the air all the way down and the damper shut completely then stayed there for 4 hours almost. I checked all the gaskets on the stove and they are all tight as well as all the pipe connections they are all good too. This is pretty common it works great some days and others it is off for the races and I can't stop the flue. Here is the kicker the stove never goes over 600F !! I would imagine if it was a super draft then the stove would go nuclear and have a failure somewhere.

Yesterday I talked to my father and he said that he thinks there may be a pressure issue above the flue causing the hot air to stay in the pipe ! Wouldn't that be a downdraft ? I have on one side of the pipe a second roof to my house which is taller than the flue on the other a tall neighbors house which is fairly close and in front a very large tree 15ft chimney total from the stove up.

 

[begreen]

You may be chasing phantoms if the thermometer is off. I wouldn't be surprised if your real flue temp was actually the same as the stovetop.

 

[pen]

Sounds normal to me actually.

When you have the air shut all the way down, you will often get the highest flue temps if you have a strong draft. Reason is, with the air fully closed the vast majority of the air entering the stove is directly injected into the bowels of hell as the secondaries go like crazy. If you give it a bit more air, it starts shifting the balance away from the secondaries and utilizes the air wash more. Since all the air here is not going to be consumed by fire, it can dilute the flue gasses cooling them.

If the stove never goes over 600, then I wouldn't think twice about the flue so long as you are running this probe on double wall pipe installed per the directions which state "at least" 18 inches up the pipe and so long as the stove's baffle is fully in tact and properly installed. By having the directions specify the "at least" part, I'd say there are different positions for different stove setups where the temps shown are actually valid. The problem is, it would take punching a bunch of holes in a good pipe to find that out.

If it consistently reads those temps and you aren't over firing the stove, I'd say you are getting too concerned with the temps that thing is showing and would just get used to what "normal" is for your situation. If you had this installed in a fireplace, you simply couldn't measure flue temps and would never consider worrying about them since the stove top temps are fine.

pen

 

[Pallet Pete]

That is a very good point! I will fire the beast up again and see what happens then.

Pete

 

[Grinnell]

My magnetic thermometer was off by over 100F degrees so i just got a IR thermometer and use that and feel much safer

 

[corey21]

My probe may be off as well.

I wish condar would make a better probe..

 

[Highbeam]

For reference, with every new fire I run that probe meter past 1100. Sometimes to 1250. Once you realize that the probe meter reads high you can stop being trapped by the suggested temp ranges and also the 1000 degree continuous rating for class A.

Normal cruise temps for me are 750-850. Stove top at 400. Stone stoves are a little funny like that and Hearthstones in particular send a lot of heat up the flue, or maybe the condar just thinks the flue is hot.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Pete, I know we've talked about this but have you checked into getting the IR? You can always borrow ours if you wish.

 

[Gark]

FWIW, we just got a Harbor Freight flyer in the mail showing the Cen.Tech handheld IR thermo for $29.99 (normally $60 says the flyer).

 

[Pallet Pete]

Pete, I know we've talked about this but have you checked into getting the IR? You can always borrow ours if you wish.

I would like to borrow it Dennis thanks! That way i can see if I like it first ( sure I will anyways )

Pete

 

[Ash Man]

When we first got our T6 about a month ago I also bought a magnetic thermometer. It scared the hell out of me when it said I was getting 900* stove top temperatures with only 4 medium splits. I went out and bought an IR, and now I know that my magnetic was WAY off. I actually stay around 600* with a full load and the air turned down...perfect! I don't think I'll bother with a flue thermometer with those stove top temps.

 

[firefighterjake]

Not sure about my Condar probe thermo's accuracy . . . but the Condar magentic mount was pretty darn close to the temp I got with the IR thermo . . . I think it was off maybe 50 degrees or so.

 

[Highbeam]

When we first got our T6 about a month ago I also bought a magnetic thermometer. It scared the hell out of me when it said I was getting 900* stove top temperatures with only 4 medium splits. I went out and bought an IR, and now I know that my magnetic was WAY off. I actually stay around 600* with a full load and the air turned down...perfect! I don't think I'll bother with a flue thermometer with those stove top temps.

It is very very easy to overheat a flue and have the stove temps barely past 200 with the stone stove. Your cast iron shell may have a similar effect. I never realized just how easy it is to run the flue up to 1250 as measured by a condar meter. Easily happens in the initial 30 minute startup burn.

 

[Pallet Pete]

Thank you all for the help ! I figured out our draft problem today and fixed it the stove burns fantastic better than I thought possible First off the condor is off by about 250F when it is at 800 and above. The flue was not drafting enouph the manual states .05 but I had to go up a pipe now it is .07 and perfect the flue hangs at 700 and hasn't passed 800f at all. The fire is the most beautiful thing I have seen in any stove now it just works perfect and the house is very warm now. Buy the way I checked it with a magnahelic gauge to be sure.

Pete

 

[Excavator]

When we first got our T6 about a month ago I also bought a magnetic thermometer. It scared the hell out of me when it said I was getting 900* stove top temperatures with only 4 medium splits. I went out and bought an IR, and now I know that my magnetic was WAY off. I actually stay around 600* with a full load and the air turned down...perfect! I don't think I'll bother with a flue thermometer with those stove top temps.

It is very very easy to overheat a flue and have the stove temps barely past 200 with the stone stove. Your cast iron shell may have a similar effect. I never realized just how easy it is to run the flue up to 1250 as measured by a condar meter. Easily happens in the initial 30 minute startup burn.

I agree the flue temps can get up there rather quick with wide open air on start up and stove top hanging on low side. I have experimented several times with my Condar probe and IR gun with magnetic stove top. I have to watch the temps close on a start up.

 

[oldspark]

OK I have a question, you added chimney pipe and it lowered your flue temp, I have high flue temps and wondering if this might help me out.

 

[Pallet Pete]

Oldspark I have a annoying problem with our setup lol. We have a tall house on the west side a tall second roof on the east and a tree on south. With each new stove we get very odd draft issues to figure out which is very annoying. If your chimney is not tall enouph you may not be drafting very well and the heat will not escape fast enouph. If it is too tall it will draft to well and could get hot from sucking the heat out of the stove really fast. These are problems we have had in the past!

Pete

 

[burnout]

Thank you all for the help ! I figured out our draft problem today and fixed it the stove burns fantastic better than I thought possible First off the condor is off by about 250F when it is at 800 and above. The flue was not drafting enouph the manual states .05 but I had to go up a pipe now it is .07 and perfect the flue hangs at 700 and hasn't passed 800f at all. The fire is the most beautiful thing I have seen in any stove now it just works perfect and the house is very warm now. Buy the way I checked it with a magnahelic gauge to be sure.

Pete

Hey Pete, I am assuming that the .05 and .07 are D/P readings, is this correct? Is that inches of water, and how did you get your Magnahelic to connect to the stove? I would like to take some readings on my stove as well. Also, how long was the pipe you added?

One last question for the group: Can you put a thermometer into a double walled pipe? Just drill through the side into it?

Sorry for all the questions.

Glad to see you up and running well!

 

[Pallet Pete]

Thank you all for the help ! I figured out our draft problem today and fixed it the stove burns fantastic better than I thought possible First off the condor is off by about 250F when it is at 800 and above. The flue was not drafting enouph the manual states .05 but I had to go up a pipe now it is .07 and perfect the flue hangs at 700 and hasn't passed 800f at all. The fire is the most beautiful thing I have seen in any stove now it just works perfect and the house is very warm now. Buy the way I checked it with a magnahelic gauge to be sure.

Pete

Hey Pete, I am assuming that the .05 and .07 are D/P readings, is this correct? Is that inches of water, and how did you get your Magnahelic to connect to the stove? I would like to take some readings on my stove as well. Also, how long was the pipe you added?

One last question for the group: Can you put a thermometer into a double walled pipe? Just drill through the side into it?

Sorry for all the questions.

Glad to see you up and running well!

You will have to insert it right above the collar on the stove through the pipe which means convincing yourself it is worth drilling through your double wall. In our case we have had draft issues before so I figured what the heck why not it saves much time and money in the long run if it works. Do not leave the probe in the pipe to long while it is burning or it could harm the probe and be sure to do the test when the pipe and stove are heated to the your normal running temps. Yes they are inches of water readings your manual should tell you what it should be at for your stove if not call the manufacturer first. As for the thermometer you have to drill to different sizes for the condor outer hole is larger than the inner then a eyelet and a magnet insert in and cover the holes to prevent smoke leakage. I am sorry I do not remember the sizes right now!

Good Luck
Pete