Constructing a Hybrid Wood, Solar, and Pellet or Natural Gas System in a Historic Brick Building

[milkyway]

Hey y'all,

we're attempting to heat a 3500 sq ft brick building in MA that currently has no heating system at all. So far we think we've ruled out an OWB and forced hot air, and are leaning towards a hydronic wood-burning system that heats baseboards throughout the three-story structure with a solar system facilitating our water-heating needs in the warmer months. We assume we'll need a backup system, so either natural gas or a pellet-feeding stove seem like obvious solutions. Does anyone have any experience with a situation like this and have thoughts about things we're missing, specific brands of stoves to look into, or more thoughts about hydronic wood-burning systems?

 

[Bob Rohr]

Got wood? If not pellets may be a better option and would not require a back up.

Here is some general reading on wood heat, as well as the link above from NYSERDIA.

http://www.caleffi.com/sites/default/files/coll_attach_file/idronics_10_0.pdf

Marc at Hydro to heat is in MA and could help with ideas.

 

[peakbagger]

Are you sure natural gas is an option? I have a project down the road and gas is not available. With a building that size, a bulk pellet boiler is probably in your future. If you have the time this conference would be worth attending http://nebiomassheat.com/

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

Hey y'all,

we're attempting to heat a 3500 sq ft brick building in MA that currently has no heating system at all. So far we think we've ruled out an OWB and forced hot air, and are leaning towards a hydronic wood-burning system that heats baseboards throughout the three-story structure with a solar system facilitating our water-heating needs in the warmer months. We assume we'll need a backup system, so either natural gas or a pellet-feeding stove seem like obvious solutions. Does anyone have any experience with a situation like this and have thoughts about things we're missing, specific brands of stoves to look into, or more thoughts about hydronic wood-burning systems?

Is this a residential or commercial building ?

 

[milkyway]

It's a residential building, 7000 square foot total, but we're just talking about building out and heating one of the six units in it through a first wave of occupancy. Not totally sure natural gas is an option; assume maybe propane would be a good third (backup) system?

 

[jaoneill]

Is this to be built out as residential rentals? If so you should think twice about a "central" heating system. Depending on potential future tenants, central heat might be setting you up in a "no-win", or at the very least a minimum to zero profit situation. I set up one of my first buildings back in the early 90's with central heat due to initial cost but learned a hard lesson and since then have installed individual apartment systems in every building we have rehab'ed; NG makes it very easy to do.

 

[Highbeam]

Is this to be built out as residential rentals? If so you should think twice about a "central" heating system. Depending on potential future tenants, central heat might be setting you up in a "no-win", or at the very least a minimum to zero profit situation. I set up one of my first buildings back in the early 90's with central heat due to initial cost but learned a hard lesson and since then have installed individual apartment systems in every building we have rehab'ed; NG makes it very easy to do.

I agree. I work in the utility industry and permit multifamily structures to get built. I often have the argument with the owner about one water meter for the whole building or individual meters for each unit. With a single meter, each tenant abuses the hell out the utility and wastes water. Your tenants on central heat would be leaving windows and doors open all the time, cranking up the stats to 80, etc. Why not?

 

[jaoneill]

I agree. I work in the utility industry and permit multifamily structures to get built. I often have the argument with the owner about one water meter for the whole building or individual meters for each unit. With a single meter, each tenant abuses the hell out the utility and wastes water. Your tenants on central heat would be leaving windows and doors open all the time, cranking up the stats to 80, etc. Why not?

We have 70 degree (max) stats in each apartment, which helps, but that doesn't preclude jackass tenants opening windows "to get a bit of fresh air". Had a panic call from a tenant one night about 15 years ago with "water spraying from the baseboard all over the bedroom". Idiot had closed the bedroom door and opened the window to "air it out". It was windy and 35 below zero; it froze and split the fin tube under the window.

 

[Highbeam]

We have 70 degree (max) stats in each apartment, which helps, but that doesn't preclude jackass tenants opening windows "to get a bit of fresh air".

Or setting an ice pack on the thermostat because they like it warmer. Renters.

 

[Karl_northwind]

Or setting an ice pack on the thermostat because they like it warmer. Renters.

wow. that's special. how about panel rads with tamper-resistant TRVs? you can get Revenue Grade BTU meters, and still do a central heating system. Not necessarily any fun, but doable.