Cumberland 3800 not heat up

[Michigan girl]

Hi everyone! Hoping someone can help me. I have a Cumberland 3800 for about 3 years now. I loved it as it put out a great amount of heat! That has changed in the last month. I have not switched brand of pellets. Here is what I have noticed: Interior of the stove seems very hot, like it retaining heat. If I have it on Range 2, it shuts down. Usually run in range 3, when I shut it off fan runs for maybe 5 min (use to be much longer) then it smokes out the rest of the pellets (yuck!!). I usually run in at Range 3 level 3 this time of year, last year it was 75 degrees and today is struggling to hit 70 (and it was a warm 30 degrees out!). Flame does not seem like it is as tall prior to problem.
Contacted Cumberland company and they say it is proof of fire switch. Does that make sense? Stove is not producing heat!

 

[Bioburner]

Sounds about right. When the switch does not close the circuit the stove thinks no fire and starts to shut down. Could be the stove needs a very good cleaning to get the switch uncovered of ash that is a very good insulator. A poor flame may be from the stoves need of a very deep cleaning. So the problems may be all and one of the same in that the stove needs a very good deep cleaning. The snap switch should easily be found with its part # that's probably on the switch itself. Its mounted like a lot of the older Whits, right by the exhaust or on the fan housing. I have been watching a couple these stoves on CL. I have an installers manual if needed.

 

[Michigan girl]

Sounds about right. When the switch does not close the circuit the stove thinks no fire and starts to shut down. Could be the stove needs a very good cleaning to get the switch uncovered of ash that is a very good insulator. A poor flame may be from the stoves need of a very deep cleaning. So the problems may be all and one of the same in that the stove needs a very good deep cleaning. The snap switch should easily be found with its part # that's probably on the switch itself. Its mounted like a lot of the older Whits, right by the exhaust or on the fan housing. I have been watching a couple these stoves on CL. I have an installers manual if needed.

Thanks for your reply! I do general clean every 3 days and heat exchangers at least once a month. I use a tooth brush on heat exchangers and they look brand new. I have seen the POF switch, no dust on it (inside of stove is very clean also). May just order POF switch unless anyone else has another suggestion! Thanks again for reply!

 

[Bioburner]

What worries me about your problem is the flame not very tall like it used to be. When cleaning have you ever cleaned the exhaust fan fins? I am not at computer to look at what the schedule and method for cleaning the stove.

 

[Michigan girl]

What worries me about your problem is the flame not very tall like it used to be. When cleaning have you ever cleaned the exhaust fan fins? I am not at computer to look at what the schedule and method for cleaning the stove.

I had a service tech out last week and he cleaned what my manual calls circulating blower (he called it combustion blower). Not sure if this what your referring to, I can tell you know more than I do! Hope this helps, thanks for your reply!

 

[Bioburner]

If the snap switch does not help, and I don't think it will help the flame issue, you may have a dying combustion fan,aka exhaust fan. Did the tech clean or did you clean the venting as well? Something is not allowing the fire to act as it had.
Check the door gaskets for tightness by closing a dollar bill in the door and seeing if it easily comes out. Repeat all the way around the door. A bad gasket could be a issue but usually door gaskets don't go till around five years but I don't know the history of this stove line. There are several others on the site that have and like the stove.

 

[Lake Girl]

It may be a software setting change ... apparently the voltage to both fans can be changed per tech manual found here, page 26:
http://www.manualslib.com/manual/724449/Cumberland-Stove-Works-Mf3800.html?page=26#manual

Have the settings been changed?

Good deep clean sounds like it is in order. Did the service tech blow out windings on combustion motor when he cleaned it?

page 28 mentions 3 important sealing surfaces on the firepot - do these have gaskets? Subsequent pages detail baffle (sides and upper) removal to clean internal exhaust pathways well and firepot removal to clean behind there. No mention of exhaust pathways between heat exchangers and area behind firepot so wondering if that area may be clogged. I use tubing attached to my shop vac (w/drywall filter - cold stove) to get in the hard to reach areas. Wire or brush may help to loosen fly ash in that area.

How did the dollar bill test go?

Keep us posted...

 

[3650]

If it was a gasket issue it would say vacuum seal on the controller. If it was the proof of fire it would say that on the controller. If the controller isn't showing this then thats probably not the issue. Is the plate on the bottom of the burnpot have the notch facing forward (the burn pot Is two parts) ? That will greatly impact how it burns. Have you cleaned all the holes in the burn pot and plate. They are a bit difficult to reach and need cleaned thoroughly. The vacuum sensor port is right below the square exhaust outlet behind the ash pan. I usually take a small wire brus and clean the hole to it then ill run the vacuum over it. I also do this to the exhaust tube being careful not to push anything too far back the that it hits the fan. Have you pulled the side plates off in the burn pot chamber? There is a bolt in the middle on each side. If this hash beend done then the area behind those panels is packed full of ashes. This wont effect hoe your burn pot works but might stop son heat from radiating off the sides of your stove. If the exhaust blower fan needed cleaned then the chimney needs it. Also make sure the air intake is clear. We really need to know what the controller I saying when the stove stops. You could also try a hard reboot. Unplug the stove for a few minutes then plug back it, not whilst burning of course. Btw that notch in the base plate I mentioned should be facing the front of the stove. When you call Cumberland you'll want to talk to Pete. He is the 3800 guru.

 

[Lake Girl]

Thanks 3650 ... Always good to have someone chime in who has first hand knowledge of the stove or its relatives

 

[Michigan girl]

If the snap switch does not help, and I don't think it will help the flame issue, you may have a dying combustion fan,aka exhaust fan. Did the tech clean or did you clean the venting as well? Something is not allowing the fire to act as it had.
Check the door gaskets for tightness by closing a dollar bill in the door and seeing if it easily comes out. Repeat all the way around the door. A bad gasket could be a issue but usually door gaskets don't go till around five years but I don't know the history of this stove line. There are several others on the site that have and like the stove.

I clean the combustion fan aka exhaust fan today. Super dirty! When I started stove back up, it took a few more seconds than usual to get the smoke out of the stove. Is there any chance when I reinstalled it I did it backwards? Stove is pushing out a little more heat! I am hoping to have time to do dollar test and also tests below! Thank you for your input

 

[Michigan girl]

It may be a software setting change ... apparently the voltage to both fans can be changed per tech manual found here, page 26:
http://www.manualslib.com/manual/724449/Cumberland-Stove-Works-Mf3800.html?page=26#manual

Have the settings been changed?

Good deep clean sounds like it is in order. Did the service tech blow out windings on combustion motor when he cleaned it?

page 28 mentions 3 important sealing surfaces on the firepot - do these have gaskets? Subsequent pages detail baffle (sides and upper) removal to clean internal exhaust pathways well and firepot removal to clean behind there. No mention of exhaust pathways between heat exchangers and area behind firepot so wondering if that area may be clogged. I use tubing attached to my shop vac (w/drywall filter - cold stove) to get in the hard to reach areas. Wire or brush may help to loosen fly ash in that area.

How did the dollar bill test go?
Hi thank you for response! I did not change setting. Think they may have changed themselves? Cleaned the exhaust fan today is a little warmer. Hoping tomorrow to get firepot out and clean behind there!

Keep us posted...

 

[Michigan girl]

If it was a gasket issue it would say vacuum seal on the controller. If it was the proof of fire it would say that on the controller. If the controller isn't showing this then thats probably not the issue. Is the plate on the bottom of the burnpot have the notch facing forward (the burn pot Is two parts) ? That will greatly impact how it burns. Have you cleaned all the holes in the burn pot and plate. They are a bit difficult to reach and need cleaned thoroughly. The vacuum sensor port is right below the square exhaust outlet behind the ash pan. I usually take a small wire brus and clean the hole to it then ill run the vacuum over it. I also do this to the exhaust tube being careful not to push anything too far back the that it hits the fan. Have you pulled the side plates off in the burn pot chamber? There is a bolt in the middle on each side. If this hash beend done then the area behind those panels is packed full of ashes. This wont effect hoe your burn pot works but might stop son heat from radiating off the sides of your stove. If the exhaust blower fan needed cleaned then the chimney needs it. Also make sure the air intake is clear. We really need to know what the controller I saying when the stove stops. You could also try a hard reboot. Unplug the stove for a few minutes then plug back it, not whilst burning of course. Btw that notch in the base plate I mentioned should be facing the front of the stove. When you call Cumberland you'll want to talk to Pete. He is the 3800 guru.

Hi, error message when stove turned off was loss of fire off the reset. This was when it was running at a low range. It was like stove was retaining heat and not pushing out. I keep up on cleaning burn pot and plate, both are very clean (use tooth picks for holes). Did brush and vac the vac sensor today. Have not pulled side plates of fire pot out and vac behind there, hoping to do that tomorrow Thanks for post, learned a lot! Use to love this stove but last month seems like all I do is try to fix it and put on my layers to stay warm!

 

[Bioburner]

I clean the combustion fan aka exhaust fan today. Super dirty! When I started stove back up, it took a few more seconds than usual to get the smoke out of the stove. Is there any chance when I reinstalled it I did it backwards? Stove is pushing out a little more heat! I am hoping to have time to do dollar test and also tests below! Thank you for your input

Sometimes a cold stove may take a few more seconds to start the natural convection in the exhaust going and maybe weather change, wind etc
Dirty fan can still be a issue of bad air not feeding the burn pot and causing dirty burn. Really the design of the stove says a lot in that you may have not tended it properly but it still has been working for 3 years. Hopefully you will get ahead of the learning curve and get warm again. We are here and rooting for you.

 

[Michigan girl]

Sometimes a cold stove may take a few more seconds to start the natural convection in the exhaust going and maybe weather change, wind etc
Dirty fan can still be a issue of bad air not feeding the burn pot and causing dirty burn. Really the design of the stove says a lot in that you may have not tended it properly but it still has been working for 3 years. Hopefully you will get ahead of the learning curve and get warm again. We are here and rooting for you.

I didn't know if there was any chance with me installing fan incorrectly caused the smoke. Thanks for your support. I have exhaust cleaned twice a year. Kinda mad the company I am paying to look after stove are not looking at these things! BTW, flame is higher. Think I maybe rounding the curve but much more work to do

 

[Bowhunter1]

if the stove was cold, the box will fill up with smoke to the point you cannot see inside until it ignites, then woooosh smoke all gone, this happens to mine every time i give it a good cleaning. remove the side plates and use a bottle brush to get all the ash off the tubes, you will be surprised how much is in there, this will help with the heat output. as far as the flame goes, it does seem like your combustion blower isnt pushing enough air. try running on range 4 for a while to see what happens. just as an FYI, i dont think i have ever run mine on 2, burns too low to rich.

 

[Bowhunter1]

one more thing, you didnt say when the last time the vent was cleaned, ive cleaned mine 3 times this year, on my fourth ton so far, once every ton this should be done.

 

[3650]

Toothpicks? Hmmm.....that wouldn't do the trick on my burnpot. I use this:

(broken link removed to http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Tools/Pages/CategoryProducts.aspx?catid=2094&campaign_source=google&campaign_medium=ppc&campaign_term=dremel-oscillating-tool&campaign_id=brand-multi-max-tools)

I use the corner of the flat blade inserted in the holes. Twist back and forth busting the deposits up. The holes really get much bigger once all the deposits are off. Then I use the flat side to bust up the carbon build up on the inside of the pot. Same on the bottom flat plate.

I would at least use a drill bit to try and cut through the deposit build ups in the holes. Turn by hand or use a drill, but go easy with the drill it can catch and twist which will break the bit or flip the pot around in your hands. A putty knife also works good for scraping off the deposits. It wont do much for the holes though. It takes quite a bit of elbow grease to get one of these cleaned good.

When re-installing make sure that burn pot is seated correctly. Sometimes they look right but a firm push forward and it will find its way home. When I am dumping a hot burn pot by pulling the handle I always put on a welding glove and push it back if I cant get it situated with the handle. Sometimes pellets can fall when pulling the pot and get trapped underneath it causing it not to seat properly. Take care no hot ash falls off the door when opening if trying this. Just to be clear they recommend the burn pot be emptied after a complete hopper has burned through. They recommend cleaning the chimney after every 1.5 tons....If I remember correctly. You might want to search on leaf blower trick. I have to admit I didn't clean my chimney until this year and to be honest there wasn't much in it. Nothing like the You tube videos I had seen. I chalk that up to burning Somerset primarily.

The loss of fire means the heat requirement is not being satisfied to complete the start cycle or to maintain a proper burn. The stove is simply not getting hot. This could be a lot of things. It all boils down to achieving and maintaining correct air fuel combination. The controller does a lot of that but keeping the stove in a good state of maintenance is up to us. We have to make sure there is a good air flow to the burn pot and out of the burn pot.

What pellets are you burning? I got a ton of junk pellets last year because they were out of Somersets and I couldn't keep a fire going. Woke up to a 34* house one morning, I only heat with pellets. I returned them and found some Somersets at another store. Get us some pics of your burn pot if you can. Id like to see how those holes look. I suspect the toothpicks aren't cutting it.

 

[Bowhunter1]

i agree, toothpicks wont do it, i use a wagner paint eater on the plate, then a drill bit, on the pot i use a 2 inch round cup wire brush on the drill, makes it look new again.

 

[Lake Girl]

I didn't know if there was any chance with me installing fan incorrectly caused the smoke. Thanks for your support. I have exhaust cleaned twice a year. Kinda mad the company I am paying to look after stove are not looking at these things! BTW, flame is higher. Think I maybe rounding the curve but much more work to do

I don't think I would be wasting my money if they didn't clean the exhaust fan when they were out last ... Is the tech from where you bought the stove?

Page 29 & 30 of the above noted manual goes through the maintenance routine. Do you remove upper baffle routinely? Remove interior sides?

What is your exhaust venting set-up (straight out, out and up, up and out) and do you have an OAK (outside air kit)? Just wondering how tough it would be to clean yourself and if you should also check to make sure your outside air intake isn't clogged (snow, ice, etc.)

3650 and Bowhunter are giving very good info on the need to clean-up the firepot if carbon build-up is blocking air holes. Flame quality and heat output are reliant on air moving through the pot!

Hang in there MG!!

 

[Michigan girl]

I don't think I would be wasting my money if they didn't clean the exhaust fan when they were out last ... Is the tech from where you bought the stove?

Page 29 & 30 of the above noted manual goes through the maintenance routine. Do you remove upper baffle routinely? Remove interior sides?

What is your exhaust venting set-up (straight out, out and up, up and out) and do you have an OAK (outside air kit)? Just wondering how tough it would be to clean yourself and if you should also check to make sure your outside air intake isn't clogged (snow, ice, etc.)

3650 and Bowhunter are giving very good info on the need to clean-up the firepot if carbon build-up is blocking air holes. Flame quality and heat output are reliant on air moving through the pot!

Hang in there MG!!

Thanks Lake Girl, I am going to contact company that cleaned stove and ask if tech who came out 3 years still works there (if not they will not get my biz). He talked to me about exhaust fan and comb blower. My vent goes out from stove a few inches then bends 90 degrees, goes up about 4 ft, another 90 bend straight out to outside. I did remove the cap at bottom a few weeks ago to make sure that was not blocked. Exterior is not blocked going in or coming out. Going to clean firepot like 3650 and bowhunter suggested in a bit. Breaks my heart to turn off stove as it is 71 and giving off good heat and flame Warmest I have been in over a month! Will update after I examine firepot and clean behind.

 

[Lake Girl]

Have you taken the sides off inside the fire box (i.e. either side of the fire pot)? If the exhaust blower was dirty, likely behind those are too...

 

[Michigan girl]

UPDATE: Turned off the stove today to fire pot/holder. Every pellet burned with the fan running! It did not smoke the pellets out after like before. Took out fire pot, burn plate then took off 4 screws that holds the casing of firepot. Tons of ash under it, vacuumed all that out. Decided I would remove baffles, heat exchanger was very dirt (both were cleaned 2 weeks ago). Cleaned all that up including top. Checked every hole on fire plate and used drill bit to clean a few out better. Did the same thing for the burn pot (only 2 were clogged).
Decided to put it all back together but forgot to take picture of burn pot! Started it up and still had a lot of smoke in chamber again. Not sure what that is about (not windy). Stove is cranking out good heat again! Think the exhaust fan being so dirty was creating the low heat and making things super dirty (usually clean heat exchangers monthly). With the low heat stove was having issues knowing there were pellets in there.
Thanks so much for all your advice! If you know of a service tech in the Lansing, MI area please let me know! Obviously I need a new one.

 

[johninwi]

If you know of a service tech in the Lansing, MI area please let me know! Obviously I need a new one.

You might take a glance in the mirror, seems you did just fine, all your missing is a brush for the pipe.

 

[3650]

Personally, id do the service myself rather then pay someone else to do it wrong. It's not that difficult once you get the hang of it. Sounds lil your on the right track. You'll get plenty of guidance and support here. Just keep safety in mind. I think as long as the smoke you are seeing is just on start up, its probably just the normal amount. My firebox gets completely engulfed in smoke on start up and once it ignites there is a big "woosh" and a small wisp of smoke will get blown out of the hole that the heat exchanger cleaning rod goes through. Then it quickly clears as the fire takes over. Glad its working better.

 

[Lake Girl]

Great job