Different looking papa bear?

[Crmaverick]

I picked up a papa bear last week, it looks different than other ones I’ve seen (pics attached). This one is UL listed and has 1980 stamped on the back.

I noticed it has a belly pan and the legs look different (not cut at an angle towards the bottom). What are the reasons for the changes and what’s the pan for? I haven’t seen any pictures of one with a belly pan like this. Also, how do the later models with arch doors compare? Were they an improvement over the older ones? I might want to find one of those to and sell my older one with the chrome knob.

 

[coaly]

Not all fabricators tapered the legs. Some clipped the bottom corners on a 45* angle, some angled as shown in drawings, some did not angle at all.

The first stoves that were not UL Listed were built with this same box with angle iron legs. They were all tested, but there was not testing criteria recognized nationwide until UL became the standardized test. Any lab can test to their criteria for testing. So UL labels have different labs and the Listing number they were tested to on them. For a very short time, this older style was Listed with added shields. The tested model back then was only needed when installed on combustible floors with floor protection, or near combustible walls. When installed in a basement on cement floor, or non-combustible hearth, UL Listing was not necessary. The shields were added to pass clearance tests to stay within temperature specifications. So many fabricators continued to make this unlisted style selling for $100 cheaper when customers did not need the tested model type.

In 1977, there was a revised drawing sent to fabricators with optional shields added to bottom and rear bolted on. When equipped, this made the new optional model a Papa, Mama, or Baby II. This was the first Roman Numeral use. They were not Listed because UL did not become the recognized testing standard until almost 1980. Also the shields were removable, which would not pass testing without being integrally attached. You have one of the first tested models. There were not many of these, since 1980 was the year of the major redesign.

The new Cathedral doors sealed the same way to the same size door seal, just a design change. They also were available with optional brass or nickel plating on the new style doors. This was to compete with so many others copying the Fisher design. No one else added as many options and accessories and promotional items as Fisher. This is what makes collecting their memorabilia interesting and a challenge.

In 1979, the double door stoves were available with optional Cathedral doors with the arched top. The very first use of this style can be found on the XL only made in Utah. So it is unknown if the designer there designed the first arched top doors, or if it was a precursor to the change when all the old style flat top doors became obsolete in 1980. Along with this door design change came a wrap around front corner that no longer used the angle iron corners for legs. For all practical purposes, these bent boxes became known as the UL Listed style box. They also had rear and bottom shields. UL Label was attached to rear shield. Since many fabricators continued making the old style as well, once they went to the Cathedral doors in 1980 it is difficult to date the old style box with angle iron, unlisted with no tag, with the newer doors.

The picture of your tag is cut off at the top. Does it have a model Papa Bear VI on it? The numbering system went from I, then II with added shields, (not on tags or literature, I only know that because I have the revised drawings) to III for double doors in 1979. IV was glass doors, and the VI was the single door Bear Series with non-removable shields designed for UL testing. The testing started in '78 with this manual; (as rare as the stoves) This should be yours. I don't know how many of these exist since this is the original sent to UL to become a part of the Listing. Notice the file number and other internal numbers on the cover where UL filed this. I have paperwork where diagrams were changed, so this may not be the final that was packaged with all the stoves at later dates.

https://www.hearth.com/images/uploads/Bear_VI_Series_Early_Manual.pdf

 

[Crmaverick]

Not all fabricators tapered the legs. Some clipped the bottom corners on a 45* angle, some angled as shown in drawings, some did not angle at all.

The first stoves that were not UL Listed were built with this same box with angle iron legs. They were all tested, but there was not testing criteria recognized nationwide until UL became the standardized test. Any lab can test to their criteria for testing. So UL labels have different labs and the Listing number they were tested to on them. For a very short time, this older style was Listed with added shields. The tested model back then was only needed when installed on combustible floors with floor protection, or near combustible walls. When installed in a basement on cement floor, or non-combustible hearth, UL Listing was not necessary. The shields were added to pass clearance tests to stay within temperature specifications. So many fabricators continued to make this unlisted style selling for $100 cheaper when customers did not need the tested model type.

In 1977, there was a revised drawing sent to fabricators with optional shields added to bottom and rear bolted on. When equipped, this made the new optional model a Papa, Mama, or Baby II. This was the first Roman Numeral use. They were not Listed because UL did not become the recognized testing standard until almost 1980. Also the shields were removable, which would not pass testing without being integrally attached. You have one of the first tested models. There were not many of these, since 1980 was the year of the major redesign.

The new Cathedral doors sealed the same way to the same size door seal, just a design change. They also were available with optional brass or nickel plating on the new style doors. This was to compete with so many others copying the Fisher design. No one else added as many options and accessories and promotional items as Fisher. This is what makes collecting their memorabilia interesting and a challenge.

In 1979, the double door stoves were available with optional Cathedral doors with the arched top. The very first use of this style can be found on the XL only made in Utah. So it is unknown if the designer there designed the first arched top doors, or if it was a precursor to the change when all the old style flat top doors became obsolete in 1980. Along with this door design change came a wrap around front corner that no longer used the angle iron corners for legs. For all practical purposes, these bent boxes became known as the UL Listed style box. They also had rear and bottom shields. UL Label was attached to rear shield. Since many fabricators continued making the old style as well, once they went to the Cathedral doors in 1980 it is difficult to date the old style box with angle iron, unlisted with no tag, with the newer doors.

The picture of your tag is cut off at the top. Does it have a model Papa Bear VI on it? The numbering system went from I, then II with added shields, (not on tags or literature, I only know that because I have the revised drawings) to III for double doors in 1979. IV was glass doors, and the VI was the single door Bear Series with non-removable shields designed for UL testing. The testing started in '78 with this manual; (as rare as the stoves) This should be yours. I don't know how many of these exist since this is the original sent to UL to become a part of the Listing. Notice the file number and other internal numbers on the cover where UL filed this. I have paperwork where diagrams were changed, so this may not be the final that was packaged with all the stoves at later dates.

https://www.hearth.com/images/uploads/Bear_VI_Series_Early_Manual.pdf

Great info thank you. The plate up top the paint is worn off, I didn’t see a papa on there but based on the manual it’s definitely a Papa VI. I saw markings carved into the aluminum plate that reads 1980 and Fisher Stoves, there’s also an X and a couple other markings.

One more question, is the thermometer supposed to be placed on the stove pipe or directly on the stove itself?

 

[coaly]

On the pipe. High enough or on the side to prevent heat from stove from affecting it.

The chimney temperature is only important while smoke is present.

Chimney flue diameter, height, and type, if masonry or prefab insulated metal, interior or exterior will determine how much heat to leave up to keep clean. The safe burning zones are only a guide since all venting systems cool differently.

 

[Crmaverick]

On the pipe. High enough or on the side to prevent heat from stove from affecting it.

The chimney temperature is only important while smoke is present.

Chimney flue diameter, height, and type, if masonry or prefab insulated metal, interior or exterior will determine how much heat to leave up to keep clean. The safe burning zones are only a guide since all venting systems cool differently.

That makes sense. I’m also curious is this something common you see on the left rear stove leg, is it a buckle from heat? It looks bent after the fire box it might be hard to see in the pictures, I can’t imagine how else you could bend the angle in that one spot.

 

[coaly]

No, but normally falling off a truck or overzealous on steps will do that.