Direct Vent and EKO 60?

[deerefanatic]

Hi guys,

I've got my new EKO 60. It has the draft booster fan on it that EKO is now shipping with their boilers. My question is this: I have hooked up the fan and it blows with tremendous force and truly creates a noticeable draft through the boiler when you open the door. Could I direct vent this boiler. As installed, I will have about 4 feet of double wall chimney that will go through the side-wall of my outdoor boiler shed, before turning and heading up the side of the building to above roof level. My question is, what if I just end it there? Maybe put a 45 degree turn down elbow on the end...... I know that garn does things this way, and the stack temps on the new EKO's is around 350 degrees, same as a Garn...... What do you guys think? If this worked, it would be much cheaper and easier than erecting a chimney....

 

[sdrobertson]

The first thing that comes to mind is that I wonder how long the draft inducer holds up and how ofter it would need cleaning. Even with really dry wood, you will still get a small amount of fly ash and "junk" going into the chimney and this may coat the fan really quickly. The Garn's fan is a long ways from the fire and I don't think that it is subject to the same amount of junk as the Eko's would be. These two boilers are really different beasts. I would also be concerned about quality of the draft with the chimney on the side of a building as the wind changes direction. A small difference in draft pressure really changes how the boiler burns and how you need to adjust the primary and secondary air settings. I've heard that the manufacturer now recommends a draft regulator so that the draft is constant with weather and wind changes so its easier to run the air settings at a constant rate which makes sense to me after running mine for a year. I'll have to think on this more....

 

[DaveBP]

And then there is always the great bugaboo of all electrically powered systems. What happens when about an hour after you stoked it full and it's really ripping along..... the power goes out?

How much power does that draft inducer fan take? How much inverter/battery bank would it take to keep it going at a low speed (just enough to carry away the combustion gases against the strongest, worstest wind)?

 

[pybyr]

Even inverters, etc, are subject to Murphy's law. If the boiler will just be in a shed, and not too close to another, taller building, what about just putting one of those "metalbestos" type sidewall support T/ brackets on, and going up with insulated stainless chimney to a few feet above the top of the shed. More work/ cost in the short haul, but a lot less than a melted or blown system in the long haul.

 

[heaterman]

I know of no solid fuel buring equipment of any kind that is rated for side wall venting without a chimney except a Garn. It marches to its own beat so to say. Your Eko is designed for use with a chimney and the draft blower is there only for loading purposes. The draft it creates is much to strong for correct burning.

 

[stee6043]

I have two thoughts - first, you likely won't meet code even if it would work (assuming you're getting a permit). The EKO manual tells you what is considered an acceptable chimney. If you install it in any other way you aren't meeting manufacturers spec's and you may also void your warranty. My second thought is your comment about 4 feet of pipe going through the wall. You aren't running 4 feet horizontally, are you? Typically the chimney pipe manufacturers (Metalbestos, SuperVent, etc) suggest no more than 24" of horizontal pipe in any application. You may want to consider at least putting a slight slope to your run. The more the better....this also goes back to the code compliance issue. If the chimney spec's say no more than a certain amount of horizontal you have to follow their spec to meet code...

 

[deerefanatic]

Ok. I didn't think it was recommended.... I'll forget this whole idea of direct venting and just do it right......

Oh..... and permits? What Permits?

But, I do want my insurance company to cover the boiler shed, so I'd better set it up as they say..... I think I'm going to run a 45 degree elbow off the pipe outlet. That 45 degree run will go about 3' over to the wall, turn and go straight through, then connect to a Tee fitting (for cleanout purposes) and continue up about 10 more feet or so which will get me above the roofline of the shed it's in..... I'm going to use 8" so I hope it's enough..... I really don't want to have to penetrate the roof..

 

[pybyr]

Ok. I didn't think it was recommended.... I'll forget this whole idea of direct venting and just do it right......

Oh..... and permits? What Permits?

But, I do want my insurance company to cover the boiler shed, so I'd better set it up as they say..... I think I'm going to run a 45 degree elbow off the pipe outlet. That 45 degree run will go about 3' over to the wall, turn and go straight through, then connect to a Tee fitting (for cleanout purposes) and continue up about 10 more feet or so which will get me above the roofline of the shed it's in..... I'm going to use 8" so I hope it's enough..... I really don't want to have to penetrate the roof..

Sounds like a good arrangement, Matt-

2 thoughts-

1) make provision/ room for removing the indoor portions of flue pipe to be able to remove fly ash (gassers make virtually no creosote, but some amount of fly ash ends up in the flue pipe)

2) make provision for a barometric damper so as to keep the draft even. Barometric dampers seem to generate controversy under the "old school" view that they're unsafe on wood appliances (and they are indeed not a great idea on non-gasifiying wood units) _but_ they appear to be the norm in Scandanavia (according to Boiler Room member Hansson) and are specifically recommended by some mfgrs such as Econoburn.

Good luck and keep us all posted on your progress

 

[Medman]

I just called Cozy Heat. The draft inducer fan is going to be available to the rest of us EKO owners very soon, at a cost of $243.

Matt, how does the manual for your 60 show the draft fan being wired in? Its got a variable speed motor, so is it attached to the controller or on its own speed control?

I am going to get the inducer, just to reduce smoke when loading. I would like to know how Orlan recommends it be wired in.

 

[stee6043]

I've seen several members here speak highly of the Volko draft inducers. Why spend $243 when you could buy one for $155 or so???

http://www.draftinducers.com/ad1.htm

 

[Medman]

Thanks for the link. That is a good price!

 

[deerefanatic]

I have no idea how it's supposed to be wired in....... I had a big question mark hovering over my head on that one... I didn't know it was a variable speed motor, so who knows..... I was just going to wire it to a toggle switch..... Guess I'll talk to Cozy Heat tomorrow and figure out how it's supposed to be done......

Stay tuned for more info.

 

[taxidermist]

I've seen several members here speak highly of the Volko draft inducers. Why spend $243 when you could buy one for $155 or so???

http://www.draftinducers.com/ad1.htm

I have researched this a lot and most people that have bought them say the volko inducer does not work on our systems. I had a chance to work on a biomass 60 with a inducer that had a door switch that turned on the inducer when you opened the door and it worked real well. They sell a inducer on the eko site just not in the states.

 

[Medman]

Orlan is selling what looks like a very robust unit. The only other unit out there seems to be the Volko, and it does not look as good. Cozy heat states the motor is variable, and it will be available to dealers like CH by the end of the summer. I think for the money, I will get the unit Orlan is recommending. Matt, if you have the draft inducer at home, maybe you could post a pic of the motor or list the specs from the rating plate so we could determine if it is variable speed or not.

 

[deerefanatic]

Sure, give me some time.. I'll get that and more pics too.......

I talked to Cozy Heat today. They too have a big question mark over their heads as New Horizons is leaving them in the dark right now..... Nothing written in the manual either.

The general method of using the draft inducer falls into one of two groups:

1. Hook it up to 110v AC with a light switch and flip it on when loading the boiler. Then flip it off when finished

2. Hook it up to the same terminals as the draft fans and have the controller ramp it up and down with them...

Cozy Heat isn't recommending #2 as they feel it really isn't necessary.... Just extra fans using electricity.

Ironically, Andy at Cozy Heat seemed to think that direct venting would work well if using the draft inducer full-time, though he agreed that it would be very much against code.....