Do You Have a Stronger Motor For My Stove?

[jasonmunson]

“Is there any way to get more heat out of this thing?” Like many pellet stove owners I notice how hot my stove gets and how little air seems to be coming out of it. It seems to make sense that a bigger or more powerful fan should go in there to blow out more heat.

It would seem reasonable that with the thousands of electric motor options you should be able to get a larger motor installed on the stove to produce more heat but my research has not found that to be such an easy thing.

Without getting into too many of the crazy details it basically comes down to three main issues; 1. Heat and 2. Noise and 3. Speed Control.

The motors used in Pellet Stoves have to be able to handle about 200 degrees Fahrenheit of heat. Most electric motors have a heat sensor that shuts them down when they get too hot and will only work for a short period of time in a higher temp condition like a pellet stove. The other factor is the bearings in the motor have to have high temperature lubricants.

The noise motors make is also a factor. The bigger the motor the more noise it makes. They usually him a bit louder and also create more vibration. This vibration may cause other parts of the stove to rattle.

Speed control is a really big issue because most electric motors run at one speed. Most pellet stove motors need to run at a variable speed. If you try to connect a single speed motor to a pellet stove with a variable speed control the motor will not work on the lower voltages.

The final reason why putting a larger motor on your stove is impractical is how the motor will fit to the stove and the fan blade. It may not be so hard to mount the motor to the stove but if the shaft size on the motor is different from the fan blade you have the task of getting it to the right size and be balanced. If the fan blade is out of balance it will be super noisy.

For these reasons and maybe a few more it is impractical to put a larger motor on a pellet stove. I do not know of any pellet stove manufacturers that sell aftermarket motors that blow more air than what comes with the stove. I’ve only heard a rumor about Englander doing this.

by Jason Munson
Pelletstovepro

 

[Stovensen]

Without getting into too many of the crazy details it basically comes down to three main issues; 1. Heat and 2. Noise and 3. Speed Control.

For those with time and patience for "the crazy details" I've attached a technical pdf from EBM-Pabst on how to calculate the optimal air flow in a system.

To awaken the interest on the subject a couple of samples are visible below. Have fun reading Very useful info.

 

[smoke show]

subscribed for entertainment value...

 

[Don2222]

We like those crazy details or facts to backup statements so we know we can believe them.

I’ve only heard a rumor about Englander doing this.

As far as Englander goes, for the most part they have always had 140 CFM room blowers in their stoves such as the 25-PDV, 25-PFS and 25-PDVC. The 10-CPM has a 250 CFM blower, IMO because corn and other fuels produce more heat. No reason to use any aftermarket blowers here, the Englander blowers are one of the best and the prices are right there too!

Also the problem you are describing Jason of less heat flow, is from my experience due to clogged up room blowers from dust and pet hair. Many times I cannot even see between the blades of the squirrel cage motor. So as always, clean the stove first!

 

[jasonmunson]

For those with time and patience for "the crazy details" I've attached a technical pdf from EBM-Pabst on how to calculate the optimal air flow in a system.

To awaken the interest on the subject a couple of samples are visible below. Have fun reading Very useful info.

View attachment 107815View attachment 107816 View attachment 107817

Uhh, Wow! Cool. This sort of charts don't do anything for me BUT some of my customers LOVE stuff like this. Thank you.

 

[jasonmunson]

We like those crazy details or facts to backup statements so we know we can believe them.



As far as Englander goes, for the most part they have always had 140 CFM room blowers in their stoves such as the 25-PDV, 25-PFS and 25-PDVC. The 10-CPM has a 250 CFM blower, IMO because corn and other fuels produce more heat. No reason to use any aftermarket blowers here, the Englander blowers are one of the best and the prices are right there too!

Also the problem you are describing Jason of less heat flow, is from my experience due to clogged up room blowers from dust and pet hair. Many times I cannot even see between the blades of the squirrel cage motor. So as always, clean the stove first!

That is actually a very good point that I've seen on just about every stove I've ever worked on and I should have included it in my post. My main point for people looking to get more air out of the stove is that it's not a simple off the shelf upgrade.

 

[DexterDay]

Enviro M-55 comes to mind.....

Do you know about this stove (Shhhh members, let him figure this one out)

Also, the Eviro Omega (Jay, hush....)

Smokey the Bear could comment also... Actually now that I have thought about it? Several makes have a replacement available.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

one must also understand that a heat exchange pathway may only accept a finite amount of airflow, mounting a stronger blower may not increase airflow at all if the existing pathway will not accept any more volume, once you pass "optimal" the resistance to airflow rises. think about a water hose if you cover the end of the hose with water inlet pressure at so many GPM you allow X amount of water out of the hose,then open the spigot further the amount of water normally will increase as you do this , but with the opening at the business end of the hose restricted the "output" wouldn't increase on the same scale as if the hose were not restricted.

a blower would be similar in effect with air you can only cram so much through the exchanger.

oh and for the record ESW does NOT offer any "more powerful" blowers for our pellet units. we use specifically sized blowers for each model we build , some are larger than others but are not interchangeable as they are completely different sized

 

[BrotherBart]

You just end up blowing more air but cooler air. The exchanger can only transfer just so much heat per unit of time. Same as with a cord wood fireplace insert with blower.

 

[Lousyweather]

don't forget either that higher airflow will usually mean more noise.....also a good idea to check the startup amperage of the blower to make sure you wont blow the fuse on the circuit board!

 

[briansol]

Stove's should come with a turbocharger on them. it will compress air so more fits per volume increasing cfm,, and the byproduct of this compression is heat.

 

[Bioburner]

Several stove models regulate the fan to take away as much heat as the stove will produce without bringing the exhaust temp to low. Some are set to the fuel input setting. You can figure out which ones are more efficient. I have a small room fan on the top of the stove hopper to help my heat pooling and shove air up the stairs as the stove idles.

 

[doghouse]

[quote="Don2222, post:

As far as Englander goes, for the most part they have always had 140 CFM room blowers in their stoves such as the 25-PDV, 25-PFS and 25-PDVC. The 10-CPM has a 250 CFM blower,


My 25-PDV has a 250 cfm blower. My blower can play christmas carols as well.

 

[smwilliamson]

Speed control is a really big issue because most electric motors run at one speed. Most pellet stove motors need to run at a variable speed. If you try to connect a single speed motor to a pellet stove with a variable speed control the motor will not work on the lower voltages.

Most pellet stoves now use TRIACs in the circuit board to clip the signal going to a motor, thus creating a variable speed. More on/offs per second means slower motor. This could also be achieved lowering the voltage, though not all motors are designed to have variable voltages..they will still work, they may not have the same durability. Variable speed motors basically just allow more than one circuit to power the motor. The motor itself is just a motor waiting for a signal.

 

[smwilliamson]

The motors used in Pellet Stoves have to be able to handle about 200 degrees Fahrenheit of heat. Most electric motors have a heat sensor that shuts them down when they get too hot and will only work for a short period of time in a higher temp condition like a pellet stove. The other factor is the bearings in the motor have to have high temperature lubricants.

Most motors can only handle 140ambient at the coil. There isn't a switch in all motors to kill it. In many motors they simply rely on a coolong fan, short of that there isnt anything that turns the motor off, it's called physics and the coil becomes thermally overloaded and less conductive, and is why most motors have cooling fins at the base of the hub.

 

[smwilliamson]

The noise motors make is also a factor. The bigger the motor the more noise it makes. They usually him a bit louder and also create more vibration. This vibration may cause other parts of the stove to rattle.

Are you a complete idiot?

 

[smwilliamson]

“Is there any way to get more heat out of this thing?” Like many pellet stove owners I notice how hot my stove gets and how little air seems to be coming out of it. It seems to make sense that a bigger or more powerful fan should go in there to blow out more heat.

How about using a better quality pellet? Seems like a reasonable place to start. Sounds like these "questions" your customers are asking you are completely fabricated. Your wantingness to be "the world's most knowledgeable pellet stove expert" is just that...a daydream. Stick around and learn something.

If anyone wants some good reading on this dude: taken from his website,
Pellet Stove Pro Home of The World's #1 Pellet Stove Repair Expert

You may notice that the motor in the picture looks different from the motor you have and wonder if it’s going to work on your stove. Yes, it will fit. The motor I have for sale is an UPGRADE from what came with your stove. The cooling fan is internal instead of having the black wheel on the back. Even though it looks different, it does fit and will be quieter than the original.
In some rare cases the holes on the new mounting plate that comes with your motor doesn’t quite line up with the motor housing. I recommend drilling new holes. The motor you’re getting is an upgrade from the original and will perform much better. It’s worth it to modify and it does not affect your warranty. In a lot of cases you can take the mounting plate off your old motor and put it on your new motor.
Pellet stove parts are not always an exact match. Many times what you get as a replacement part will look different and have a different part number than what you are replacing and it you might conclude that it is the wrong part. There are a couple of reasons for this;
1. Almost NO parts on a pellet stove are made by the manufacturer of the pellet stove. All motors and electronics are bought from other manufacturers and installed on the stove. There is usually several manufacturers of the same part for a pellet stove such as a switch or a motor. 2. Over time the original company may stop carrying the part so it comes from somewhere else.
The main point in all of this is that I provide replacement parts that cover the FUNCTION of the original part. This isn’t always the original part. In most cases where the part is different from the original it is because we found a higher quality replacement that is quieter and last longer.

The areas in bold are noted for their profound insight and professionalism. Sound like the number one pro to you?

 

[DexterDay]

Where did he go?

Maybe he'll show up around Christmas to give us all a deal on an exhaust blower that we have to modify to get on our stove?

Troll.

 

[BrotherBart]

Think this one has lived about as long as it needs to.