Dodge 1500 Diesel

[EastMtn]

Wanted to get your thoughts on this one.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.co...coDiesel_Promises_Best-in-Class_Fuel_Economy/

"Chrysler Group hasn’t given any specific fuel economy estimates yet, but it expects the Ram 1500 with the EcoDiesel to be more fuel-efficient than any gasoline V6-powered half-ton pickup truck available. The most fuel-efficient non-hybrid full-size pickup truck currently on the market is the Ram 1500 equipped with the 3.6-liter V6 and eight-speed automatic, which is rated at an EPA-estimated 17/25 mpg city/highway. With the diesel engine, (broken link removed) predicts that fuel economy estimates will be about 23 mpg city and less than 30 mpg highway."

I say it's about time. I've been waiting for something like this to come around for a while. Personally I love diesels but have no legitimate justification for the big V8 because I don't haul heavy loads. This would be right up my alley. I also don't buy new vehicles so would have to wait a year to get this truck but it gives me time to get real world reliability statistics and driving impressions before getting one.

The master plan is to build a shop and have 2 diesels, one for the wife and myself, and supplement fuel with bio diesel from the shop. Anyone know if the Mercedes or Audi diesel engines will take bio diesel as an acceptable fuel?

 

[begreen]

I'm hoping they have a winner with this engine.

 

[tekguy]

if your towing anything then the diesel should pay for itself much sooner as it will probably get much better mileage with a load than the gas v6

about time for a 1/2 ton diesel, didnt gm offer half tone diesels with the 6.5/6.5 (yuck)? they certainly put those motors in suburbans and some blazers till 99

 

[Ashful]

...the Ram 1500 with the EcoDiesel to be more fuel-efficient than any gasoline V6-powered half-ton pickup truck available.

I just find the entire comparison very odd. Have you ever owned a half-ton pickup with a gasoline v6?

I have! I can tell you they're as useless as tits on a bull.

 

[begreen]

Yes, I think it's a good move by Dodge. FWIW, my BIL has a diesel in his Suburban and loves it. Claims he gets 20+ mpg with easy cruising.

 

[begreen]

I just find the entire comparison very odd. Have you ever owned a half-ton pickup with a gasoline v6?

I have! I can tell you they're as useless as tits on a bull.

This depends on the gearing of the truck and what one is doing with it. The problem with a lot of modern trucks is that they are geared for economy more than pull power. My Ranger is like that. It does get great mileage for a truck though. I used to drive a 4 ton rack body truck on scrap metal runs. It had a V6 in it and was geared to haul. I never drove it over 65 mph, but it could move a lot of metal.

 

[tekguy]

Yes, I think it's a good move by Dodge. FWIW, my BIL has a diesel in his Suburban and loves it. Claims he gets 20+ mpg with easy cruising.

i believe 20+ on diesel suburban.. I have a 99 with a 5.7 and avg in the high teens (light foot, MFI conversion, new 02 sensors, magnaflow cats and exhaust, impala cam, shift controller, marine vortec heads and lt1 springs) (plus whatever else i am forgetting)

guys that stick 4bt's in them claim to get in mid 20's+

 

[Bret Hart]

Yes, I think it's a good move by Dodge. FWIW, my BIL has a diesel in his Suburban and loves it. Claims he gets 20+ mpg with easy cruising.

A bit of a different beast, but I get 17.8 to 18.2 mpg with my cummins on summer fuel. Right at 8000lbs and 277,000 miles and original injectors. With a slight upgrade in injectors I'm confident I'd be over 20 mpg.

 

[Ashful]

This depends on the gearing of the truck and what one is doing with it... I never drove it over 65 mph, but it could move a lot of metal.

This 1/2 ton v6 had a good gear spread, T5 trans. It actually did great around town, but was a dog on the expressway. I could not keep speed above 60 - 65 mph going over hills, and I'm used to doing 85 mph+ any time I'm more than 30 miles north or west of Philly. It also had trouble getting out of its own way when you had any sort of trailer on it.

 

[Jags]

This will be an interesting thing to watch play out. The real devil is in the details. It is going to be interesting how this little diesel performs in real life. 420 ft lbs of torque is nothing to sneeze at. That is more grunt than an EFI 454. The 8 speed auto is also gonna be fun to watch. Will it hold 420 ft lbs or will it grenade under a load (long term).

I have wanted dodge and jeep to drop a diesel in the half ton and Grand Cherokee for years (Cherokee had a Mercedes blue tec for one year but was uber expensive). It just so happens that I currently drive a dodge half ton and a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[EastMtn]

I just find the entire comparison very odd. Have you ever owned a half-ton pickup with a gasoline v6?

I have! I can tell you they're as useless as tits on a bull.

Not only are they useless but the fuel economy is about the same as a 3/4 ton diesel. I tow and haul some loads but I'm not towing a horse trailer or fifth wheel so the extra cost and power of a 3/4 isn't worth it.
I was reading around and it turns out that Europe's diesel standards are getting stricter. The U.S has standards that make it unappealing to refit a manufacturer's line up emission wise when those same companies can sell the vehicle to every other country except US. But now that the emission standards in other countries are getting closer to the US the playing field is leveling out so we are starting to see more diesel options come across the pond.
It's going to be an eight speed transmission which makes you wonder if those gears will serve the purpose of fuel economy or help it maintain some of that low end grunt that people like in a diesel.

 

[velvetfoot]

Is it a V6 diesel?

I don't know if I'd want to put homemade biodiesel in a new, or newish car. Maybe an older Mercedes.

 

[blades]

Devil in the details, fuel mpg on d's never mention the cost of having to replace the DEF fluid. which increases your costs

 

[EastMtn]

Is it a V6 diesel?

I don't know if I'd want to put homemade biodiesel in a new, or newish car. Maybe an older Mercedes.

Yes V6 diesel.
Looks like consumer vehicles are only approve for up to B5, commercially available or heavy equipment engines up to B20. You're right 5% bio is not worth the hassle.

(broken link removed to http://www.biodiesel.org/using-biodiesel/oem-information/oem-statement-summary-chart)

Devil in the details, fuel mpg on d's never mention the cost of having to replace the DEF fluid. which increases your costs

I buy premium unleaded now and the cost of diesel closely matches that price within 5 cents. Sometimes cheaper than premium. Maintenance on a diesel is more expensive like you say and DEF goes for about $13 per 2.5gal. Your suppose to only need to fill it up at every oil change 7,500mi. .

 

[MasterMech]

I'm hoping they have a winner with this engine.

I bet they are too.....

 

[charly]

Diesel here is cheaper then premium by 17 cents... I have a 1 ton dodge cummins, 5 spd standard I get 22- 23 mpg on the highway.. Single rear wheels.. For a heavy duty truck I think that's good MPG. My friend runs vegetable oil in his ford diesel,,, has a separate tank for that oil... He spent 2000 for the system and installed it himself.. All automatic.... once the oil is up to temp it switches over .. when you go to shut the truck off it purges the oil out of the pump- injectors and runs diesel back through for a clean start up again.. He buys 500-700 gallons at a time.. picks it up from whomever for $1.79 a gallon.. I'll bet that Dodge 1500 will be a big seller unless they put a crazy price on it... Another big seller I think would be a Jeep Wrangler with a 4 cyl Cummins... Bet that would get 30 plus on the highway.. I think there would be a waiting period if they produced Jeeps with a diesel..bet they couldn't keep up with sales.

 

[begreen]

I seem to recall the v6 diesel + 8 speed tranny adding about $2800 to the base price.

 

[Ashful]

I seem to recall the v6 diesel + 8 speed tranny adding about $2800 to the base price.

That's cheap! In 3/4 ton, even down-grading to manual trans (usually -$2000), its an $8000 adder.

 

[tekguy]

I seem to recall the v6 diesel + 8 speed tranny adding about $2800 to the base price.

is that over the V6 or a hemi?

 

[EastMtn]

I use to have a 4cyl YJ wrangler and that engine was bulletproof. I put it through hell offroad and it handled everything I threw at it as long as I was in the right gear. LOL! No top end like the V6 though. A 4cyl. diesel would be a game changer and might out sell the V6.

 

[charly]

I use to have a 4cyl YJ wrangler and that engine was bulletproof. I put it through hell offroad and it handled everything I threw at it as long as I was in the right gear. LOL! No top end like the V6 though. A 4cyl. diesel would be a game changer and might out sell the V6.

They put a diesel in the new Jeep Cherokee this year,, but the Wrangler got snuffed again.. I remember the Jeep wrangler owners wave . I think there would be an over whelming response for a turbo charged 4 cyl Cummins diesel in a new Wrangler.. Clean air meeting emissions, start selling more bio diesel grade fuel...

 

[Foragefarmer]

I checked the jeep site since the diesel is now available. Adding the diesel adds $7500 to the price of vehicle over the base 6 cyl. because you need to add the engine $4500 plus the tranny and luxury group II. But they are saying 30 mpg highway.

In 1985 or 86 Toyota stopped offering a diesel for the Pickup/Hilux in the US. Why? No one bought one. They are as rare as hens teeth. I just don't see the interest among the general public. Heck I love diesel and my 87 Toyota needs a fresh engine after 237K miles and a spun bearing but I don't want to spend the $3-4k it would cost to put a diesel engine in it when I can get a reman. gas for $995 with a 2 year unlimited milage warranty.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Wanted to get your thoughts on this one.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.co...coDiesel_Promises_Best-in-Class_Fuel_Economy/

"Chrysler Group hasn’t given any specific fuel economy estimates yet, but it expects the Ram 1500 with the EcoDiesel to be more fuel-efficient than any gasoline V6-powered half-ton pickup truck available. The most fuel-efficient non-hybrid full-size pickup truck currently on the market is the Ram 1500 equipped with the 3.6-liter V6 and eight-speed automatic, which is rated at an EPA-estimated 17/25 mpg city/highway. With the diesel engine, (broken link removed) predicts that fuel economy estimates will be about 23 mpg city and less than 30 mpg highway."

I say it's about time. I've been waiting for something like this to come around for a while. Personally I love diesels but have no legitimate justification for the big V8 because I don't haul heavy loads. This would be right up my alley. I also don't buy new vehicles so would have to wait a year to get this truck but it gives me time to get real world reliability statistics and driving impressions before getting one.

The master plan is to build a shop and have 2 diesels, one for the wife and myself, and supplement fuel with bio diesel from the shop. Anyone know if the Mercedes or Audi diesel engines will take bio diesel as an acceptable fuel?

I'm conflicted. On the one hand I love the fuel economy and the (historically speaking) longevity of diesel engines - but on the other hand - I'm no fan of the new, super low emissions, high RPM, fragile diesels which combine the added cost of a diesel engine and all the reliability of an '85 Buick Skylark. Modern diesel designs (for non-commercial applications) are caught in between two sh_tstorms: the Gub'mint wants ever lower emissions and the consumer wants gasoline-like performance, both of which cut into mileage and longevity (which are the only reasons I like diesels to begin with).

 

[simple.serf]

I had an f150 with the v6 (4.2l) and a 5 speed. With consistent highway driving and 800lbs of tools, I averaged about 14 MPG. This was with 3.73 gearing. My ranger has the 4.0, 4.10 gearing and a 5 speed and gets 20 mpg. The problem with Diesel acceptance in the US is twofold. A: People remember the Olds 350 (5.7L) Diesel. B: Diesel cars and light trucks have traditionally been dogs on power and sound like farm tractors.

Here is my concern with putting a Dodge diesel in a Dodge: the only thing Dodge/Chrysler had going for it was the Cummins Diesel. The transmissions were crap, the transfer cases were crap, and even the axles couldn't hold up to the power of a stock 5.9 12 or 24 valve. I know, I have replaced all of the above parts (5 auto transmissions in 3 years!) on 2 work trucks that were used at the upper end of their weight rating.

I would love a reliable diesel in a 1/2 ton. With modern emissions laws and the high price tag, I doubt it will ever happen.

Also, on another side note: I would NEVER put homemade Biodiesel into a modern electronic diesel engine. It's just too much of a gamble. They don't hold up well on the fuel they are made to run on, and injection parts get expensive real fast.

Sorry for the ramble....

 

[MarkinNC]

I have been following the half ton diesel issue for a while. GM has been developing one and Nissan has had a 4 cylinder Cummins diesel they have been testing in the Titan platform. I saw a quote from Toyota leadership indicating they would be forced to put diesels in the half tons to meet the new cafe standards. Everybody is shooting for that magic 30 mpg right now.

One of the things that stood out when reading about the upcoming Dodge platform is that the exhaust system for the half ton diesel cost "as much" as a "hemi and it's transmission." And therein lies the rub. If the bureaucrats at the EPA had even a little common sense, they would have modeled Europe's standards for a while. Don't get me wrong, getting the particulate emissions under control is important (Europe has had a big spike in cancer deaths attributable to diesel particulate emissions), but lets be reasonable about it.

$7000 sounds about right for the diesel option. Say hello to your $40K plus half ton.

Waste vegetable oil will not run in a modern diesel. There were threads on Bob is the Oil Guy about making your own biodiesel. Ethanol is a joke but biodiesel makes good sense IMO.

The number of responses to this thread is intriguing!