Dutchwest 2460 leaking smoke

[Andrew B]

Hello all,

First let me say how indebted I am to this forum. It has been an invaluable resource during my 2 year wood burning journey and I am grateful for everyone who takes the time to share their expertise/experiences on here.

That being said, I am in need of some advice/ideas for my Dutchwest 2460. Not sure when it was manufactured but it's probably an early 90s model. I got it used last year and put it in my basement. I've got some ductwork that I capture the heat with to distribute to the living space upstairs. Over the summer, I rebuilt most of the stove since some parts were well worn/broken (new catalyst, refractory, inner top assembly) and resealed it. I've been burning over the past week and have noticed a smokey smell coming from the top left corner of the stove. I'm also seeing dust collect on my water heater, on top of the stove, and on the blower fan on the back of the stove. The flue pipe is sealed going into the chimney, at the elbow, and going into the stove.

I took the top off and noticed that the holes where the damper rod sits in the inner top assembly have gaps that would theoretically let smoke from inside the horseshoe. But the other thing I'm curious about is that even if there was a gap somewhere inside the stove, wouldn't air be sucked into it because of the draft? I feel like the chimney draft is pretty strong since I can hear air whistling through the main air intake on the front of the stove.

I'm at a loss as to where the smoke is coming from any would appreciate any ideas. Has anyone experienced this and how have you fixed it? Did I not seal it properly, or is there something I can try first before going through that ordeal again?

Attaching some pictures of where I'm smelling the smoke and of the inner part of the stove where that damper rod goes.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Defiant 3]

Does it only happen when the catalyst is engaged?

 

[Andrew B]

Does it only happen when the catalyst is engaged?

I believe so yes. There is a distinct difference in the smell coming off the stove when building up the fire with the damper open (more of a heat smell), as opposed to the smell when the catalyst is engaged (definitely has a smokiness to it).

 

[Defiant 3]

My first thought would be the gasket on the top, then maybe a joint that didn't get enough cement somewhere. Keep in mind that there where it leaks will likely get blackened up making it easier to find. Also wonder if draft is not as strong as it should be? You're right, air would get pulled into a leak most of the time.

 

[FaithfulWoodsman]

I’ve been on hear a couple weeks trying to figure out the same exact problem with mine. Same stove, 2460 and same issue. Bought it a couple months ago. Owner said it was only used dozen times and burned great. That was half true. Looked barely used, but smoked out the flue more when the cat engaged, even at 1000 degrees. Plus i have the smoke smell. Replaced the cat gasket, no change. Looked inside secondary burn intake to find it completely clogged with stove glue. Busted 3/4 of it open and now the cat works great, 0 flue smoke. However, the smell still remains. On startup it’s not a smokey smell, more like a burnt creosote odor. Then it drastically increases and turns more smokey odor once you engage the cat as OP stated. It’s strongest right where the OP drew his circle, but i can detect it at all the gaskets. None of the gaskets look bad and all pass the paper test. But being original I’m going to replace them all.

Been burning wood for decades and i have decent draft, puffed flower goes right up the flue when cold and a lit newspaper ball gets sucked up quick. However, when i close the crack i leave in the ash door on startup, the stove almost goes out even with the main air fully open. Takes it a long time to get a flame back up. Does yours do this as well Andrew? Based on the thought that cracks should feed a fire, i have left the side door a hairline amount open, basically just unlatched and that increases the burn and reduces the smell.

Figured I’d chime in and let you know you’re not the only one with this issue (found several older threads with same issue) and what I’ve found and done so far. Plan to replace all the gaskets today and fire it up tomorrow evening. Gonna see if I can check the main air intakes for clogs too. I’ll post back with an update.

 

[Defiant 3]

So I seem to recall the cat operating temp should be like 1200-1400 deg, no? 1000 is a little south of the line. Also, many symptoms described here could easily be attributed to firewood that's just not dry enough. As experienced burners I figure you'd be aware, still worth mentioning. Never know who's gonna be reading...

 

[FaithfulWoodsman]

Yep understand. Manual states cat burn zone is 600-1400. Wood is around 15%, 2 year CSS ash and cherry. Thanks for checking as those could cause the same issues.

 

[Andrew B]

My first thought would be the gasket on the top, then maybe a joint that didn't get enough cement somewhere. Keep in mind that there where it leaks will likely get blackened up making it easier to find. Also wonder if draft is not as strong as it should be? You're right, air would get pulled into a leak most of the time.

Attaching a pic of the top liner. I redid all the gaskets on the stove when I resealed it, but it’s possible that either could have not sealed properly in some places.

Draft wise I think it’s fine because I don’t have the issues Faithful Woodsman mentioned. I don’t have to crack any doors to get the fire going. But I’m attaching a pic of the chimney to see if there may be any issues with height or spacing from the apex of the roof. It’s 9x9 clay lined with 6” stove pipe going into it in the basement.

So I seem to recall the cat operating temp should be like 1200-1400 deg, no? 1000 is a little south of the line. Also, many symptoms described here could easily be attributed to firewood that's just not dry enough. As experienced burners I figure you'd be aware, still worth mentioning. Never know who's gonna be reading...

Ditto what Faithful woodsman said with operation temp being 600-1400 per the catalyst temp gauge on the top of the stove. Mine climbs to about 1000-1200 with the bypass closed and primary air full for about 5-10 mins and then gets down to 800-700 after a few hours of burning with everything closed down. Wood is all oak with most being 7-10% on my meter. Highest I got was 15% on just one piece.

Figured I’d chime in and let you know you’re not the only one with this issue (found several older threads with same issue) and what I’ve found and done so far. Plan to replace all the gaskets today and fire it up tomorrow evening. Gonna see if I can check the main air intakes for clogs too. I’ll post back with an update.

Yeah it seems like a few people on here have issues with it. Not sure if it’s a problem specific to cat stoves. I didn’t think to check the main air input but like I said it seems to draft just fine.

 

[Andrew B]

Forgot to specify that the chimney we’re using is the closest one in the picture.

 

[Andrew B]

Keep in mind that there where it leaks will likely get blackened up making it easier to find.

As I was firing up the stove this evening I noticed this on the side door after remembering what you said here Defiant 3. Attaching pics of what I’m seeing.

I also checked the front door and there is some blackening of the gasket as well. In addition there seems to be this discoloration above the side door on the side of the stove itself. Not sure if it was there before and I just now noticed it, but could this be where the smoke is leaking?

The gasket set I got is a Midwest hearth that is made specifically for this line of stove but maybe there is some kind of special material gasket the stove needs that I’m not aware of? Should I be looking at a different gasket set? Maybe a manufacturer’s one if that exists?

 

[FaithfulWoodsman]

Did the first burn after replacing all the gaskets on the stove. Smell was non existent until the bypass was closed. Overall the odor was far less and definitely tolerable if I had to live with it.
I think my issue is draft related. Loaded it up around midnight and it was good and lit after 45 minutes, stove sides and pipe around 500. Engaged the cat and it climbs to 1000, but the fire goes out to a smolder. Still have a large bed of coals at 10 am., which seems too long. Cat stayed around 900 with the secondary air set at one turn open and air at 1/2. Crazy thing is, if I leave the air fully open, it smolders for hours, but will eventually take off and over fire.

The smell is mostly from creosote around the side door, the only place odor was leaking. The entire door and some of the side is covered. The new gasket is super tight all around. Can’t imagine how it has any leakage. Measured my chimney and it’s only 13’ total with a gradual 90 bend 4’ above the stove. Total horizontal run is about 30”.

Any suggestions? I thought about trying to add more vertical pipe.
Any news on yours Andrew?

 

[Andrew B]

Any suggestions? I thought about trying to add more vertical pipe.

Sorry I’m no help when it comes to draft. I think mine’s alright just from using it and not having any trouble getting the fire going/controlling it but I’ve never measured anything with it to know for sure.

Any news on yours Andrew?

Nothing new on my end I’m afraid, still doing the same thing with smoke smell when the cat is engaged. I’ve checked gaskets and everything passes the dollar bill test so I’m not sure how anything is leaking out of them. But there is some of that black stuff along them (see pictures in my previous post) so I don’t know if that’s an indication of where it’s leaking.

I may need to get a testing device to measure the draft just to cross that off the list of potential problems. Like I said, I’m just assuming it’s okay based on how the fire behaves. But operating under the assumption that any air leak would draw more air in instead of letting smoke out, it may not be as great as I’m thinking.

 

[fbelec]

andrew b what do you have circled in the 3rd picture?

 

[Andrew B]

andrew b what do you have circled in the 3rd picture?

It looks to me like some black discoloration above the side door. Not sure if that’s an indication of where it may be leaking from.

I’m having a chimney guy come out tomorrow to check the draft and take a look at things to see if I need a smaller/insulated liner.

 

[fbelec]

thank you i see it now. it looks like once it might have backfired a puff. if it were leaking smoke it would be a lot blacker than that. i have a little smell that smells like the air that comes down the chimney in spring and just found it tonight finally. it is coming from my top where it meets the front side looks like a rebuild waiting to happen. so far only when it's ramping down does it stink. and it's just a light smell so far it hasn't been using a lot of wood or running away with no control. i could not find this with big flame lighter or smoke stick.

 

[Andrew B]

So it’s been a little while but I wanted to update you all on the stove. I went ahead and completely tore it down and re-sealed everything and then went along the seams again as I put the stove back together. I also put some gasket between the damper mechanism and the holes it connects to on the inner top cause it looked like there was enough of a gap there for smoke to potentially escape while in bypass mode. Did some small fires to cure the cement and I just now fired it up full and got the catalyst going. I did my normal procedure of keeping the main air full and cracking the secondary air as the catalyst engaged. This is when I would normally smell the smoke and sure enough I could smell a faint smoke smell AGAIN. BUT as I was feverishly going back over in my head how this could still be leaking when I sealed every possible place it could be coming from, it dawned on me to close the secondary air and then take a sniff. IT WAS GONE. The smoke smell I believe was leaking out of the secondary air the whole time. I guess it isn’t getting enough draw to bring air in and is instead letting smoke leak out while the catalyst is engaged. I’m going to try and leave that secondary closed now and just have the primary air open more than I normally have it and see how that burns. Hope this also helps anyone else having the same issue. I’d be curious if it does the same for anyone else who closes the secondary air.

 

[fbelec]

andrew just doing a little thinking could this be not enough draft???

 

[FaithfulWoodsman]

Thanks for the update Andrew. It’s been a while for me too. I actually purchased a used Nashua NFP-1 to replace mine with. But snapped my bicep tendon (unrelated to lifting the stove) and had surgery before I could get it installed. So im stuck with the DW. My issue is definitely draft related. I stuck 6 feet of stove pipe above the chimney and things did improve. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to find a permanent stove pipe to put up there. I have since loosened the latch on the side door enough to make the tiniest crack for air to get in. This has provided another inlet for air (reducing the leaking around that door) and with tweaking the combination between the main air the side door and the secondary air, I’ve been able to get decent burns with the cat and very minimal smoke smell. It’s not perfect, but works fir now.

I would check to make sure your secondary air chamber is clear. Recall that mine was completely clogged from the factory with glue. Sorry to hear you went to all that trouble and still have some smoke. From all ive read these things can just become gassy???

Once we move into our house im increasing the chimney length, installing an insulated liner and getting a blaze king ashford.