Econoburn or Not

[Hard at Werk]

Heres a question. What type of pipe should I use? and can i use two tees? I'm considering ordering black 22ga stove pipe - $180 shipped. I hear some folks use stainless or galvanized which was my first choice but thin I found this 22ga black pipe. I'm not sure what to get any advice would be greatly appreciated. This is for an econoburn 100k and i'm about three ft from the flue.

 

[Piker]

Black pipe will work fine... stainless will last a bit longer.

cheers

 

[pybyr]

I should be able to light fires no problem. I'm not new to burning wood, as a matter of fact i'm only twenty six and my guesstimate is I burned roughly 50 -60 cords in my short life span. so i know wood. Hopefully I will start burning before new years but I doubt it. I saw how it hooks up, it's really simple. For a couple of guys, a days work I think. I'll find out soon !

Lighting and tending a gasifier will be different than most other woodburning appliances -- no rocket science, just different; you have to un-learn some old things and learn some new things. I've burned a lot of wood in a lot of different wood-heating devices, and it takes some new acclimation to how the unit works (unlike most wood devices, where you rely on fire going upwards, you want a bed of coals in the bottom of the burning wood as fast as possible). The aforementioned "NoFo method" works better than anything else that I've tried.

 

[Piker]

I should be able to light fires no problem. I'm not new to burning wood, as a matter of fact i'm only twenty six and my guesstimate is I burned roughly 50 -60 cords in my short life span. so i know wood. Hopefully I will start burning before new years but I doubt it. I saw how it hooks up, it's really simple. For a couple of guys, a days work I think. I'll find out soon !

Lighting and tending a gasifier will be different than most other woodburning appliances -- no rocket science, just different; you have to un-learn some old things and learn some new things. I've burned a lot of wood in a lot of different wood-heating devices, and it takes some new acclimation to how the unit works (unlike most wood devices, where you rely on fire going upwards, you want a bed of coals in the bottom of the burning wood as fast as possible). The aforementioned "NoFo method" works better than anything else that I've tried.

I have been using a timer to shut my boiler off before the coal bed dissappears completely. Even if the coal bed goes completely cold after a few days of drawing off of storage, 30 seconds with a cheap propane torch on the dead coals around the nozzle and within 60 seconds of turning on the draft fan you can be smokeless and gasifying like a pro with a fresh load of wood. Not the only method, but one that I have several customers using now with great success. It's simple, inexpensive, and effective, though on systems without thermal storage it's a little more of a guessing game as to when to shut everything down... but you learn.

cheers

 

[Chris Hoskin]

Piker is right - there seems to be a misunderstanding that you MUST use an ASME boiler in Mass. This is only true if it is installed as a pressurized and sealed system. By installing the boiler with open expansion the boiler is pressurized (5 -10 psi instead of 15 typically), but NOT sealed (closed) so the ASME requirement goes away. Hardware and labor to install the open expansion set up is comparable to the additional charge that manufacturers charge for the ASME units as I understand it ($1 - 2000?).

We have been using open expansion in commercial jobs for years because every(?) state requires ASME for commercial jobs. We also now have some residential open expansion systems in MA. We use open expansion on the P4 pellet boiler we are heating our building with here. Works great.

Hopes this clarifies some things.

 

[Hard at Werk]

I AM FINALLY GASSING !! I mean the boiler. Got it fired up about 3 pm today. Took a little bit of patience to get it going from scratch, but figured it out. I just stuffed it full. Now I will be monitoring the temperatures and circulation speed to see what is most efficient. Any pple with experience are welcome to advise. Depending on how much wood it consumes, I may add a zone in the garage as I already have the provision for it. Wonder if there will be anything in the chamber when I wake up. Would be super. Will post pics soon, I am too tired to do so now.

 

[flyingcow]

Congrats! What I thought was neat as he!! is when you go outside, no smoke. I knew it was gonna happen, but all it was is heat vapors. In the summer, couldn't tell i was burning.

 

[Hard at Werk]

Not bad. I loaded it about 90% full about quarter of nine. (did a sloppy job) Opened it at 7 this morning and there was a hot bed of coals about 4"-5". Thats about 9 hours of burn time at 19 F outside. Not bad at all considering I have a forced hot air system. I tried posting pics but the pc is giving me grief.

 

[Hard at Werk]

One small problem, maybe its a big problem, I'm not sure yet. I am getting ALOT of condensation in the black pipe and the chimney. I think it's because I have two t's. The way my black pipe is setup, is i have an 18" piece coming out of the boiler into the first T. Theres a clean out at the bottom, and the pipe shoots up another 18" and then a second T. Again a clean out, and the T goes directly into the flue. There is water at the bottom of the first T. the cap was full of water this morning. the sides of the black pipe are dry. I'm afraid I might have to replace the T's with elbows but not sure if that will solve my problem. And also there is water running down the side of the chimney just a bit. Maybe I should take the chimney cap off. Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[pybyr]

What species of wood are you using, and how well seasoned?

 

[Hard at Werk]

99% oak the rest maple, birch, maybe some beech and ash. it's been sitting outside for about 3-4 yrs and in the basement for about 3-4 weeks.

 

[willworkforwood]

Three possibilities come to mind to explain the water. Earlier you said your oak was "tarped sitting for about two years". If it was tightly stacked and fully tarped (no air), then it's possible the oak isn't close to 20% yet.
However, the usual tipoff for unseasoned wood is creosote, and if you have no creosote in the flue along with the water, then it's unlikely to be the wood. #2 is the possibility that the refractory drying out produced the water. I don't even know if that's possible, but others have reported odd things happening during the first couple of burns. #3 - you said the WB flue has been unused until now, and perhaps there was a bit of snow or ice on the inside wall - it wouldn't take much to fill the cap with water. So, as Gates would say - I don't know what the problem is - just try a reboot.

 

[Hard at Werk]

My wood reads 20% - 22% in the split middle. On the outside it reads 9% - 11% No creosote in lining anywhere. Not even a possibility of snow in the flue. I checked everything before I made the connection and also I have a chimney cap on top of the fact that we hadn't had snowfall for more than a week. I am beginning to lean towards the idea of the refractory drying out only because it's been running so far and no water at all. Not even signs of any moisture molecules. When I first started the beast there were drops of water hanging inside the refractory top and sides. I hope that this is a one time issue and the five gallon bucket will be there for looks only. In the morning there was a small puddle in the back of the boiler which evidently leaked through the pipe and down the cinder block wall. When I took the clean out cap on the bottom off, there was almost a quart. Add what was on the floor and we got a half gallon.

 

[Gooserider]

I would tend to agree with some of the other posts, could well be just the combined effects of starting up with stone cold everything... Give it a few days and see if things get better... If not, look for leaks, (we have had a couple folks find leaks IN the boilers :red: apparently manufacturing defects.... I think most were at the flue exit from the fire box) and also your exhaust gas temps...

Gooserider