EF3 Shutting down

[Gordy]

While burning the pellets, my stove will shut off, its like it isn't sensing enough heat and thinks it is off and kills the fans.

It will only stay on if I have the auger at about 2:00pm or higher, sometimes I even have to turn the blower about half way down or it will shut off.. seems like it blows too much of the heat away and the stove kills all power.

Anyone ever had this problem? Could it be a faulty sensor?

 

[charger1966]

How old is this stove? Is this the first time that you have fired it up? What Brand name are your pellets? There are several things that can cause the stove to go out. We will need some answers first from you.

 

[Gordy]

The stove is about 10 years old, not the first time I have fired it up, started acting up this year though. I have used a few different brands of pellets I originally thought it might be them so I tried 3 different places, all do the exact same thing,

 

[charger1966]

I would check to make sure that the auger is working at the different speeds that the dial-a-fire is set to first, if it seams to change the speed of the feed OK you just eliminated the dial-a-fire switch, and the timer for the auger.I would next open the side door with the damper adjustment and disconnect the vacuum switch hose from both ends and blow through the hose to make sure it is not plugged. Then check the barbed end on the exhaust blower to make sure it is not plugged. If it is clean it with a drill bit the same size as the hole, reconnect the hose and try to run the stove.If it still doesn't burn right then disconnect the 2 wires to the vacuum and jump them. If the switch is bad it will operate and burn like normal. These steps will get you started in figuring out the issue with the stove. Keep us informed of the results.

I have an EF2 that is 9 years old and went through this very issue last season. The vacuum switch was the culprit in my case.

 

[Gordy]

The auger works fine.. from what I read is that the low limit switch could be dirty. I read on this site to take the 2 screws out and try and clean it, says it can have a build up of ash on it.

I don't recall seeing a vacuum hose in there, I could be wrong though.

 

[charger1966]

Yes that switch could be dirty, It wouldn't hurt to take it out and check it,clean it and re-install it. That vacuum switch should be on the left side of the stove as you look at it. Just look for the orange colored hose if it is still the original hose in it.

 

[Gordy]

Alright I'll check that when I get home and let you know, thanks.

 

[charger1966]

No Problem. Good Luck

 

[Gordy]

The hose is fine and the both ends aren't plugged.. I jumped the sensor and it stays on, but for some reason I don't think its the switch, I think it might be my damper not moving fully, I could be totally wrong though.

The damper moves 1.5 inches from all the way in to all the way out. The pellets need to be around 2:00pm to get a decent flame and the damper makes 0 difference whether fully in or out, makes me feel like it isn't working, maybe it should go in further, anyone have any idea?

 

[charger1966]

OK, You jumped the Low Temp Sensor? Did you try to jump the Vacuum Switch yet? Reconnect the sensor and jump that Vacuum Switch and see what it does. As for the damper, Yes it should move about 1,75" -2.0" Mine moves about 1.75", I would worry about getting the stove to stay lit first then we can figure out if there is an issue with the damper.
If the stove stays lit with the Vacuum Switch jumped you should be able to Dial Down the feed rate to the lowest setting and it should stay burning. If it doesn't then it has a double failure, The Vacuum Switch & the Dial-A-Fire Switch. When I was thinking about your stove I remembered that I also had to replace my D-A-F switch 2 years ago. Wouldn't stay lit at a lower setting.

 

[Gordy]

Well, with the low limit switch jumped I can turn it down pretty low and it stays on but there is no flames just ash like it is burning too quick, could that be the vacuum switch?

 

[johneh]

What does the fire when it is burning look like?
With the dial afire set above 2 o'clock does the fire keep burning ?
and if it does is it a brisk fire or one with black tipped flame ?
When was the last time you did a complete clean including removal of back panels
inside the stove? I suspect that your exhaust port at the draft gate is plugged !
Here's a link to the service manual.
http://www.hearthtools.com/parts/2004enviroTrouble.pdf

 

[Gordy]

It was cleaned last in April or May (whenever we stopped using it for summer) .. set at 2:00 it is a nice looking flame about to the chute for pellets. I took out the low limit switch in the exhaust blower and it was only a tiny bit of soot on it, cleaned it anyway but still no difference.

Any lower than 2:00 is where I get the lack of flame, seems like what I read is that it is getting too much air and burning the pellets too quick.

 

[guitarjamman]

I have a 2001 EF-4 but from what I see, we run off the same system. The first thing is how long does the auger stay lit? If you have the old timer (1 second) then you will never get enough pellets to feed to keep it going if below 2 PM of the D-A-F, if the light stays on for 3 seconds then that is not the issue.

I would also suggest removing the combustion blower from the housing and really cleaning the hell out of the whole exhaust path. The low limit sensor (on mine at least) is attached to the housing and is very easily covered with soot if I have been burning a while. With the motor off of the housing, take a snake brush and clear the path from the fire box all the way to the clean out tee and vacuum out all the debris.

Do you get a few cycles with no pellets dropping then get a large surge of pellets on one auger cycle? Any fines in the hopper or bridging pellets? the only reason I ask is because I have been fighting the same problem all season on my Enviro and these all have seemed to help alleviate the shutting down of the stove.

 

[stevemartin]

The damper only moves 1.5 inches? My EF3 did that and then once I had it cleaned, the rod would move about 4.5"-5" from open to close. I would look into cleaning that and try to free it up. I was there when the tech cleaned mine and it took them a while to get it to break loose.

 

[guitarjamman]

It was cleaned last in April or May (whenever we stopped using it for summer) .. set at 2:00 it is a nice looking flame about to the chute for pellets. I took out the low limit switch in the exhaust blower and it was only a tiny bit of soot on it, cleaned it anyway but still no difference.

Any lower than 2:00 is where I get the lack of flame, seems like what I read is that it is getting too much air and burning the pellets too quick.

Do you have an OAK installed?

 

[charger1966]

What brand of pellets are you burning? I found with a poorer quality pellet that my EF 2 would not burn at all below the 11:00 o'clock position. I hope that you are not burning Greene Supreme Pellets.....

 

[Gordy]

Alright thanks everyone.

guitarjamman: I really don't think it is a problem with the auger, it was working fine previous years. I didn't remove the blower yet, I will hopefully tomorrow when I get some time. Not sure what an 'OAK' is?

stevemartin: That is exactly what I was thinking, the damper isn't moving all the way, 1.5" doesn't seem like much to me, maybe I need to remove everything again and really re-clean it.

charger1966: I've burned a few different types of pellets, mainly using Eastern Embers from HomeDepot, tried Trebio (I think) from Walmart, and also tried Canwick from Canadian Tire.. no difference from any of them.


After looking at page 23 on http://www.hearthtools.com/parts/2004enviroTrouble.pdf I would say my flame is more like the first, more like a small blowtorch flame. This really leads me to believe the damper should be going more in than 1.5"

 

[chamas]

RE: Damper slider impeded:

This was covered recently, but for a EF2. EF3 is similar, if not identical.

Refer to
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/lazy-flame-on-enviro-ef-ii.118170/#post-1582146

 

[Gordy]

His problem is a lazy flame from lack of air, mine is the opposite, too much air making it more like a blow torch... could be similar problems (damper not working right) but just the other end.. worth a shot.

 

[Gordy]

Alright, got the stove working ALOT better but still I don't think it is 100%.

Took it all apart and got the damper sliding all the way closed (removed the exhaust blower and scraped it out inside).
Now the stove works at about 1 o'clock, but still any lower and it turns off due to lack of heat (I am guessing) because if jump the switch it stays on, only problem is it will never shut off and would burn the auger out if the fire were actually out.
But atleast now, I am only burning about 1 bag a day versus the 2-3 per day I was burning.

 

[stevemartin]

Alright, got the stove working ALOT better but still I don't think it is 100%.

Took it all apart and got the damper sliding all the way closed (removed the exhaust blower and scraped it out inside).
Now the stove works at about 1 o'clock, but still any lower and it turns off due to lack of heat (I am guessing) because if jump the switch it stays on, only problem is it will never shut off and would burn the auger out if the fire were actually out.
But atleast now, I am only burning about 1 bag a day versus the 2-3 per day I was burning.

So with the damper closed all of the way, what does your flame look like with it set at 1 o'clock?


Thinking a couple of things here:

1.) Have you checked all of your seals? Especially around the ash pan? I was unaware until someone pointed it out to me that the ash pan actually needs to be "locked in" by turning the fastener in the center of the pan (located behind the decorative outside of the pan)

2.) If all of the seals check out fine, then I would base my next thoughts in regards to the flame characteristics. If the damper is closed, auger set at 1 o'clock and you are still getting that blow torch flame, then air has to be getting past the damper somehow. I would pull the damper assembly out totally and inspect for any damaged or potentially rusted areas that might be letting air through.

3.) If with the damper closed, auger set at 1 o'clock, you have a tall, lazy flame, then try opening the damper only 1/2" at a time, waiting at least 15 minutes between changing settings for the fire to stabilize again.

4.) Another thing you can experiment with is to try shutting the blower fan off while starting it and just letting the heat build up in the stove at first before attempting to lower the feed rate. The manual actually suggests that you do this every time you start the stove. It helps me when I use hardwood pellets.


Let us know what you find out

 

[chamas]

Good job on fixing the damper.

If everything else checks out OK, and the fire looks good, you may be dealing with a sluggish Proof Of Fire snap switch; the ceramic one on the side of the exhaust blower housing (low-limit switch).

 

[Gordy]

Hey guys, sorry been pretty busy with Christmas and that.

With damper closed I get the "tall, lazy" flame, looks almost like an outdoor campfire just free burning I guess is the best way to describe it.

Checked all seals and seem to be doing ok, I think it was just the damper.

One thing I noticed a few times is the glass is getting black with soot after less than a day, am I right in saying that it is not getting enough air when that happens?

 

[stevemartin]

Yep, When you are getting black soot deposits, then you need to open the damper. My EF3 is really touchy. I open my damper about 1/2" at a time until the flame loses that laziness and brightens up a bit. More like a bright orange/yellow color.