Effecta Lambda Wood Gasification Boiler 120 000 BTU from Sweden

[Peter Johansson]

I have Effecta Lambda boiler from Sweden. I have read alot of threads in in the forum. And I can say that USA are way after Europe in biulding heating systems... But that makes things very intersting, way is there not more boilers from Europe in the states. Is it beacause of the ASME and the UL rules? Can you sell a boiler with out it? Can you import storage tank from Europe? Do you need the ASME on a boiler/storage tank even if you use an open expansion?

Please let me now what you think of this! Is there a market for a boiler like this? see www.effecta.se I bout it there!

 

[TCaldwell]

johannson, what o2% does the controller try to maintain, what does the control panel display during a burn, also is there a manufacturer name or model number located on the controller , thanks tom

 

[Eric Johnson]

I saw that boiler at the World Bioenergy Fair last year in Jönköping. Very impressive boiler and technology!

The problem with importing boilers like that to North America is not the standards, but the lack of good distribution networks (dealers) and concerns about liability (lawyers and lawsuits). Many of the manufacturers have decided that the market is not big enough to justify the expenses involved in solving those problems. EKO-Vimar and Tarm are notable exceptions from Europe.

Most of us would love to see that kind of technology on this side the of the Atlantic. That said, I believe that Froeling and Veissman wood-fired boilers are now available in limited numbers here, as are some fo the more conventional downdraft gasifiers, such as Atmos, etc.

And welcome to the boiler room, Johansson. I believe you are our second Swedish member. The other one is Hansson.

 

[jebatty]

I noticed that the Woody model from Effecta states the following about its firebox, which is the first printed acknowledgment I've seen about the "bridging" issue which some experience more or less. The same probably is true of the Lambda model, but I did not see an extended description:

The grate is wider in the lower part than in the upper part. This is to prevent the logs from clinging to each other on the grate walls. The result is a smooth and easy combustion of the firewoods which leads to a quick heating of the accumulator system.

 

[oldmilwaukee]

Welcome Johansson! The effecta lambda looks impressive. I agree, we are undoubtedly behind the Europeans when it comes to wood boilers. Last year's model in Europe is 30 years ahead of most boilers here in the US. I am hoping some day for a retrofit closed-loop system to control the draft on my Tarm Solo 40.

To answer your questions... I suppose wood is cheaper here, and we are less crowded and therefore generally (falsely?) less concerned about pollution. I am sure some of the smoke plumes from our boilers would make you shake your head in disbelief.

 

[WoodNotOil]

To answer your questions... I suppose wood is cheaper here, and we are less crowded and therefore generally (falsely?) less concerned about pollution. I am sure some of the smoke plumes from our boilers would make you shake your head in disbelief.

I would add that the cultural and population difference have caused the Europeans to deal with energy and pollution ahead of us. When the US energy crisis of the 70s was over and energy became cheaper, most of the governmentally funded alternative energy companies and research were bought up by the Europeans and they finished developing them and implemented them. Our tax dollars gave them a great head start. They are literally the model of what we could have had in America today, had we not abandoned that route in the 80s. You've gotta love American lobbyists and their influence on our government policies...

 

[DenaliChuck]

You've gotta love American lobbyists and their influence on our government policies...

It's depressing. We should be providing incentives, not roadblocks.

 

[ugenetoo]

dont forget the lawyers! all the fears of litigation over product liability have pretty much squelched the entreprenourial spirit in this country.

 

[jebatty]

dont forget the lawyers! all the fears of litigation over product liability have pretty much squelched the entreprenourial spirit in this country.

That's the American way -- blame somebody else for your own problems. There would be no such lawyers without clients, people like you and me, who want to get large judgments. Some lawyers are just great entrepreneurs pursuing the American dream like everyone else. Should we not celebrate their successes? ... like we supposedly celebrate the successes of other entrepreneurs? Methinks you might be jealous of the success of others.

 

[ugenetoo]

dont forget the lawyers! all the fears of litigation over product liability have pretty much squelched the entreprenourial spirit in this country.

That's the American way -- blame somebody else for your own problems. There would be no such lawyers without clients, people like you and me, who want to get large judgments. Some lawyers are just great entrepreneurs pursuing the American dream like everyone else. Should we not celebrate their successes? ... like we supposedly celebrate the successes of other entrepreneurs? Methinks you might be jealous of the success of others.

youthinks wrong!

 

[Peter Johansson]

I have looke at the storage tanks in USA they look alot different the they we use in Europe. In my eyes it looks like yours is less efficent. Some of the tanks has no top and the are built like with corners instead av round. What is the rules for storage tanks do the need to be ASME tested?other wise a think it is good market for the europeen manyfactory to start export to USA. Here is a link to Effectas storage tanks....
(broken link removed to http://www.effecta.se/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=37&Itemid=32&lang=en)

I would like to have comments of what you think!

By the way this is a realy good forum!

 

[steam man]

I have looke at the storage tanks in USA they look alot different the they we use in Europe. In my eyes it looks like yours is less efficent. Some of the tanks has no top and the are built like with corners instead av round. What is the rules for storage tanks do the need to be ASME tested?other wise a think it is good market for the europeen manyfactory to start export to USA. Here is a link to Effectas storage tanks....
(broken link removed to http://www.effecta.se/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=37&Itemid=32&lang=en)

I would like to have comments of what you think!

By the way this is a realy good forum!

I think the "corners" you mentioned are on an "unpressurized" square tank. They are used in some cases, typically when a large tank has to be constructed in a room with a small access. Sometimes they are round. It runs with a lower temp, say 175 deg F. The cost for one should be cheaper than a comparible commercially built pressurized tank of the same size. Even a 3000L pressurized tank is on the small size for thermal storage and the price gets high very quickly. That's why you see members here using converted propane tanks. They are a limitng because of only standard sizes are available. Expansion and safety is not as much an issue. A similiar European tank would be the Hass tank which is unpressurized. There are US makers of pressurized tanks but they have never been marketed for the wood boiler industry. Hopefully, that will change and the price will come down. Even your system at 2 x 200 gallon would be considered small. The ASME certification depends on the location of where it is used. Not all buy some states require it. Typically commercial use of over 120 gallons and something like 200,000 btu/hr requires ASME.

During the US energy crisis of the 1970's, wood boilers were installed in many houses. When oil went cheap, the industry just died. here comes 2008 and we find ourselves in the same situation. caught once again. If oil prices stayed high then you would see more wood boiler development. US oil prices have always been cheaper the European but then the tax structure in Europe on oil is much different which makes for higher oil prices there hence alternative developement. I think the US litigation issue is somewhat overblown. If the market were large enough to make money, US market designed Euro products would start heading this way on a massive scale. The US already uses plenty of Euro oil/gas boilers.

Here's your chance to start an export business to the states.

Mike

 

[tom in maine]

While I have zero experience with lambda sensors, I do know tanks a little.
I agree a round tank makes a lot of sense, given the fact that you lose the hole square tank wants to become round stresses, but
a square tank uses less basement real estate. Even if this is a small amount, it does make a difference to the average consumer--though
not necessarily the average Hearth reader. And if designed well, it is not a problem ;^)

Unpressurized tanks do cost less than pressurized ones. The heat exchangers help bump the price up. Once again, we in this forum are mostly DIY'ers.
IF you are paying an installer to put in a tank, an unpressurized tank will win every time, given the labor savings and logistics.

Dick Hill (the inventor of the first gasifier wood boiler) and I NEVER used a heat exchanger to interface a ferrous or non-ferrous boiler with a storage tank. Never! We were too cheap to use the heat exchanger and pumped tank water directly into the heating load. This can be difficult for multi-story buildings, but works fine on one or 2 story homes.

We used a serious corrosion inhibitor when necessary and never had an issue.

When I started working with Tarm/Bioheat, I was slightly surprised to see that they were not interested in running unpressurized. All boilers in Europe are pressurized and use "accumulators". That is fine.

I have just recently built a boiler that is based on work we did at the University of Maine 25 years ago. It pumps tank water through the boiler (non-ferrous) and goes back into the tank. I like simple and will show more of it soon.

We have spent a lot of time and effort to engineer heat exchangers that use a lot less copper than the 3/4"L status quo ones. Feedback from the field has been great. And they are simple.

A common thread for me is that everything should be simple. I used to be fearful of complex electronics in heating and cars. The Prius made me comfortable with electronics in cars. I can see the merit in boilers like the Effecta and Froling, just struggle with the cost/benefits.

Sorry to ramble on. Whenever someone mentions tanks, I get going.

Tom
(broken link removed)

 

[tom in maine]

Two more things--I got sidetracked (wound up)--

If you use an elegant European accumulator with the really nice, integral heat exchangers and
when one of those fails, the tank could be rendered useless.

The unpressurized tank allows simple solar backup, running tank water to a solar array as a drainback system. Just a pump and controller,
no more hx.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Hey Johansson:

Does your boiler have the pellet feed option? The one I saw on the floor of the World Bioenery Fair had one. I'm wondering how well it works.

Also, one thing we could really use on this side of the Atlantic is a good selection of chip-fired boilers. There were quite a few at the show, and the technology doesn't look all that complicated. We sure would like to see some of those being sold here.

 

[Peter Johansson]

The Effecta Lambda can easily be changed from wood to wood pellet. The pellet burner will be placed on the side of the wood boiler, you have to order it for pellet right or left side. The when you wants to use the pellet burner instead of the wood. You change it in the display and you can choice to shut the sucking faan off or have it. The dampers will close. Then you have to manually take the lock from the boiler and turn the pellet burner inside. I think the whole process will take 3 minutes...