Eko stove pipe fire

[tacoma95]

New Eko 40 owner with problems.

1) Faulty controller. On the initial burn, the controller shut down after 30 minutes - no lights or display. 2 weeks later a new controller installed - problem solved.

2) Strong creosote smell after 2 days of burning. Thin coat of creosote in upper chamber. Door gasket shows a grove in the door gasket on 3 sides, but not on the hinge side. Some black specks on the gasket between the hinges. Tightened the door so the door springs back a bit, when opening to refuel. With the door closed, I can see the gasket material squeezed around the flange of the boiler on 3 sides. On the hinge side, the gasket is only flush with the unit flange. After tightening , there is only a faint indentation of the flange in the gasket on the hinge side. I tightened the hinge one more turned, but the door is difficult to close and springs open all the way when refueling. I turned the hinges back 1 turn.
I have been spraying the gasket with Wd 40, but no improvement. I am searching for a higher density gasket.

3)9 days of burning. Checked boiler 2 hours after refueling. Stove pipe( 7") has a fire from back of boiler. Could see the flame tip in the barometric damper 4' from boiler. There was no rumbling sound and no chimney(8" x 8") fire. In my panic, I cannot say with certainty that I had the boiler damper closed, after I refueled. While trying to kill the fire, I opened and closed the boiler damper many times, while removing a few sticks of smoldering wood. The fire burn out in about 15-20 minutes. Inspected the upper chamber this morning. Creosote as usual in the box and around the boiler flue, Shined a flashlight through the boiler flue, into the stove pipe- no creosote just the fine ash I usually see. Stuck my hand thru the barometric damper into the stove pipe and found a 1/4 inch of fine dust. My stove pipe run is 7' with only a 10 inch rise from boiler to thimble, with an s-turn from the back of the boiler. I need the s-turn to go around a brick support post. My licensed installer says this meets code. I also have excellent draft in my indoor chimney.

4) My wife is ready to toss out the boiler. She can't stand the creosote odor, filling the house. The stove pipe fire sent her over the edge - me as well.

Has anyone ever had a stove pipe fire? Is it possible to have a fire if the damper was closed? Have read the threads about the gasket concerns. I guess I'm not the only one with the creosote smell.

 

[stee6043]

For the sake of your marriage get on Grainger.com immediately and buy some high-temp silicone sealant. It works. I had to go around my upper door two or three times to really get a decent seal. I also still run my bathroom-fan-vent-retrofit most of the time just because it's there. My upper door hinges are cranked all the way in and yes, it's tight.

As for the chimney fire - sounds odd. You're one of only a few people I've heard mention "barometric damper" and "EKO" in the same sentance. Most folks do not run them on EKO's as far as I know. I can surely tell you I've never had a chimney fire. My firebox is coated with creosote (normal) but all I have in my chimney pipe is fine ash.

 

[tacoma95]

I'll try the sealer, but am still leaning towards a different gasket. My brother in-law is in the boiler business and says fiberglass gaskets are not the best.

The fire was in the stove pipe to the chimney, not the chimney itself. I'm hoping it was my mistake by leaving the boiler damper opened, but I can't be sure.

 

[mhearts]

No , it is not possible to have a stove pipe fire with the damper closed.

Tightening up the door hinge will help the gasket make better contact. Other make a new silicone gasket which is detailed in other threads that the claimed eliminated ay smell issues.

Being installed in the house it is hard to control the smell on the EKO. Mine is a garage installation and it is challenging to control the smell from entering the house. it improved over time and can be managed. But it has got better as the gasket settled in. When loading , smoke still comes out the door. Being in the House however, I personnaly would recommend installing a venting hood over the door opening and that would vent all smell outside and make both you and your wife happy. Look for an old range hood and fan.

 

[tacoma95]

Thanks, I'll start searching for a vent and try a new gasket.

 

[Seyiwmz]

Old EKO owner here, over 4 yrs burning. I burn 24/7. I have the creosote smell too. Using High temp RTV silicone (the orange stuff) gasket maker helps alot. But everything in the garage where the boiler is smells like creosote. I could never see having this inside the house. I might just move mine to an outside shed. But I just installed a 500 gallon storage a yr ago and don't use it. I'am not gonna keep starting fires everday like some on the forum do. That's when you have to watch it the most. I like to just fill it and walk away. Kinda of a waste of space in the garage now. Oh well, live and learn. Might come in handy in the spring when the heat load is so severe.

Seyiwmz

 

[tacoma95]

Thanks for the input. If the new gasket doesn't work, maybe I'll build a boiler room with an outside vent.

 

[Duetech]

tacoma95,
Unless you are contending with "code" or over drafting I would dump the damper. Your storage size is at or close to minimum for the EKO40 and unless you are burning small loads you are probably getting idle time. Idle time equals creosote. With the damper restricting draft flow you are creating back pressure and the EKO creates enough pressure on its own to make the gasket leak. Since you had a fire in the black pipe all you should have is ash but that doesn't mean you did not have creosote from idling. I run 24-7-365 with no storage and I get creosote and actually burn my chimney out periodically, prior to cleaning, by purposely opening the bypass damper for a short time when a hot fire is going. That is a practice recommended by the manufacturer of an old wood furnace I used for 17 years and is a common practice for many with wood stoves. With the old wood furnace I went from black pipe to triple walled inside of the basement. During "burnouts" the black pipe would glow to a dull red before I shut down the burnout.
The gasket is a little more of a quandary because of the trouble with the smoke but from the sounds of things the door wasn't aligned well from the factory and you have been over impressing the latch side of the gasket to cut smoke leakage and the back side has gotten permeated with creosote and hardened. I have replaced my gasket twice in 2.25 years of use and am approaching the need for a third replacement. I couldn't find anything locally to replace the gasket with so I reused the old one. I had to shut down, obviously, and carefully remove the gasket and burn out the creosote with a propane torch handling the gasket with care as I had to reuse it or let my boiler stand until I could find a suitable replacement (though at the time it was summer and the need for the boiler would not have been an emergency scenario). Since I have gotten the new gasket I have found a way to clean the old one more gently. With the new gasket installed I placed the old one squarely and in shape on the U block in the secondary chamber and let the gasification fire do it's thing. An 1 1/2 to 2 hours later I had a cleaned and softened gasket which is waiting to be used a third time. Now it's "take the current one out glue in the cleaned gasket and up and running inside of 2 hours" start to finish.
For now though, until you get a new gasket, you can use a large faced flat punch (3/8") to "soften" the hinge side of the gasket by lightly tapping the gasket with the punch and hammer. but before you do you might want to set the bolts for the hinge back in that turn you took them out. The hinge side of the gasket will give less resistance after you soften it up. Instead of using WD-40 on a new or replacement fiberglass gasket I use dry silicone lubricant and it seems to help for a while. The old wood furnace recommended replacement every year. If you decide to use a silicone high temp gasket instead of fiberglass lube it with high temp grease after it is fully cured and periodically after wards to keep creosote from sticking to it and damaging it. The 700*f silicone that comes in tubes might work well but should probably be put on in layers (1/4-1/2") because because the curing properties of the silicone are engineered for small bead application. Good luck on building the boiler room. My boiler is in an outbuilding.

 

[tacoma95]

Thanks for the response.

I took off the 90 degree elbow section of pipe from behind the boiler. There is a fine ash layer, about 1/2" to 3/4" deep by 1" to 2" wide. I have never seen a creosote fire, so I can't tell if the ash is from creosote. I have only been burning for 9 days so I will replace the elbow section, with a tee section. This way I can access the pipe and vacuum the ash weekly, if needed. I'm hoping I forgot to close the boiler damper after refueling. If I had left the damper open during gasificaton could my pipe fire have been flames from the upper chamber?

 

[cvanhat]

i had a creosote fire in my pipe because i left the damper open all night long. i just shut off the eko and let it burn out. about a half hour later it had burn itself out. needless to say i always double check the damper now

 

[Duetech]

Thanks for the response.

I took off the 90 degree elbow section of pipe from behind the boiler. There is a fine ash layer, about 1/2" to 3/4" deep by 1" to 2" wide. I have never seen a creosote fire, so I can't tell if the ash is from creosote. I have only been burning for 9 days so I will replace the elbow section, with a tee section. This way I can access the pipe and vacuum the ash weekly, if needed. I'm hoping I forgot to close the boiler damper after refueling. If I had left the damper open during gasificaton could my pipe fire have been flames from the upper chamber?

Yes your pipe fire could have been from an open bypass damper and likely was and it could have led to a boiler over heat too (won't tell you right now how I know). I found that if I check the secondary chamber flame next to last before I leave that I pretty much eliminate leaving the damper open (oops now maybe I've gone and told you) and lastly I cycle the tube cleaner handle. If the damper is open the lobes on the cleaner handle crankshaft will bump the bypass damper if it is not closed and will often close it.

 

[Duetech]

tacoma95,
Just realized the amount of ash you have in your pipe was for nine days. You must have a lot of near horizontal pipe run. Even so for 9 days of running that seems high. Start reading through the "Fine Tuning EKO" sticky because it sounds like you have your blower set too high (and possible other issues that can be improved upon) and it is pushing ash into your chimney. There are other negative things that does too but read the sticky. Again, sorry I didn't realize you were only on your ninth day burning. That being the case I would tighten the hinge bolts that one turn because the gasket needs to seat but just make sure it doesn't over stress the handle side of the gasket. The handle doesn't have to be cycled all the way over to insure a tight seal or a locked closed position.

 

[VeggieFarmer]

There is a fine ash layer, about 1/2" to 3/4" deep by 1" to 2" wide.

I also had such an ash layer after having used my EKO for about 1 month. I decided it was indicative of too much fan pressure creating too much flame. I've since cut back to 50% fan and no longer have much if any ash blowing up through the turbulators and into the stovepipe.

My EKO40 is in the basement, and after 4 months of continuous use, I've had no issues of smoke or creosote odor, provided I'm careful when opening the primary chamber for refilling. I spray WD40 on the gaskets every few weeks. I'm betting that you'll be fine once you resolve the gasket, hinge, and damper issues. I very much like having the EKO in the basement, both for being able to fill it in my slippers and because all the "waste" heat is doing an excellent job warming all the wood flooring just above. Hang in there!

--Veg

 

[leaddog]

Thanks for the response.
There is a fine ash layer, about 1/2" to 3/4" deep by 1" to 2" wide. I have never seen a creosote fire, so I can't tell if the ash is from creosote. I have only been burning for 9 days so I will replace the elbow section, with a tee section. This way I can access the pipe and vacuum the ash weekly, if needed. I'm hoping I forgot to close the boiler damper after refueling. If I had left the damper open during gasificaton could my pipe fire have been flames from the upper chamber?

Yes the flames you saw was probably from the upper chamber. I have had a really hot fire going up the stack when I have loaded with a part load that was mostly coals. I've seen the stack temp go from 300 to 1500 in less that 30sec. What is happening is you are getting gasification in the chimmey. The primary is surrounded with water so the unburned gas goes into the damper opening and with the mix of o2 burns, the same way the garn burns. If you watch sometime with the damper open you will see it swirl in the damper.
if you would have had a stack fire the ash wouldn't have been dust it would have been black particals. when creasote burns it will expand like foam and drop down in black particals. That is one of the reasons chimmey fires are so dangerous. if you have a big coating of creasote and it catches fire it can expand and block the stack and with the high heat it will find a crack and blow out and if there is any wood near by fire.
I have a 12ft stone wall with fire place in my house and 40 years ago when I just started burning wood I had a chimney fire. We didn't know it untill little pieces of stone started to pop out of the wall and the we could see little puffs of smoke coming out of cracks. by that time the fire had smothered it self but when I went to clean the stack it had filled up with black foam and I had a hard time getting through it. I had to have the liner replaced with a pour in, the top of the chimney replaced to the roof line and the had to repoint the stone wall. fireman friends of mine have said that 1/2 in of creasote can exspand and fall and block a chimney. Thats one of the reasons I wanted a gasifier. I don't ever get any creasote in my chimney. some fly ash yes but that is gray and dusty. I clean mine at the cleanout tee a couple times a year. If you get alot of ash you may have your fan open to much.
I did have a problem when I had a cap on my stack as the exaust would condence in the cap and caused it to slow down the draft so I took it off. I can't see any reason to have it as I burn year round and sparks never come out.
As far as having a baro-damper I would only use it if you need it for code, have a high draft, or a place where you get down drafts.
ekos only need .04 to .08 draft but alittle more can be controlled with your primary and secondary's
leaddog

 

[tacoma95]

Thanks for all the replys. It feels like the cavalry charging to the rescue.

I do have a 6 foot pipe run from the boiler to the chimney. The rise is only 10 inches, but meets code. I have made one adjustment to the boiler - cutting the fan air supply to about 30%. I will read more about the tweaking comments to primary and secondary air supply. I have been getting burn/storage times of 6 - 10 hrs so far in the cold Maine winter. Is that good? I have a 3 story( 2 floors and basement) wide open handcrafted log home(4500 sq ft) with lots of windows.

 

[stee6043]

What kind of temperatures are you getting on your boiler readout? 6-10 hours seems like a very long burn. Are you getting 180+?

 

[tacoma95]

The 6- 10 hrs includes the stored heat on my 475 gallon tank. I'm getting burn temperatures between 180 - 185. The actual burn time is about 4 hrs. Storage lasts between 3- 6 hrs. My oil backup is set to run when the storage tank is at 140. Need 140 to run my staple up radiant zones.

 

[rickh1001]

tacoma95

I have an EKO 60 in our basement, and winding up the first winter in service, I wouldn't have it any other way. My wife complained about the odd cresote smell at first, but now after a few months, no one notices anything. On the first iteration of the installation, it turned out the chimney was a little too short, and downdrafts from the roof were sending the smokestack odors back down into the windows. An extra 4' of chimney more or less solved that. As for the basement smoke, I have learned how to crack the lower and upper doors open a little, wait for longer than I think I need to, then only open the doors enough to add wood in. If I am careful, and if the firebed is down to charcoal/coals, there is no smoke and no odor. Of course, if I try to add wood with a wide open loading door with a half load of smoking wood in the primary, and leave the door wide open while I walk across the room, the entire upstairs fills with smoke, and there is hell to pay. So it is all part of a learning curve. As for the chimney fire, my guess is you were just seeing the fire roar out of the open primary chamber. The Eko can get quite scary, if I have a half load burning along, and I leave the primary door open to clear the smoke while I go get the wood. I have come back in just a few moments, and the entire fuel load is roaring, and the connector pipe is almost instantly up to 600 def F or more. However, I have removed and cleaned the stovepipe 3X this season, and all I have ever found is some accumulated grey ash, but never any creosote. The advantage of having the boiler downstairs, is there is almost no wasted heat. I need to wait until the end of the season to calculate the efficiency, but so far, I have burnt only a little more than half the wood I calculated I would need, based on the conversion tables for wood/oil heat equivalents, based on the oil usage from the last few years. As our moderator has stated many times, there is a learning curve on these units, and I was wondering if I made a mistake about a month into this. Now though, I can't see a thing wrong with the installation and operation, and it is working way better than I ever expected.