Englander 10cpm poor heat output?

[Jdurham]

I just got an Englander 10 cpm from AM FM after reading a ton of reviews about how much heat output these stoves have. So I got the stove and set it up right on with the factory specs. I bought cheat river pellets from lowes and figured I'd start it up and give it a try before it really started to get cold here in central PA. Anyway I have run 3 bags of pellets through the stove cleaning it after every bag and I'm really disappointed with the heat output of the stove. I don't know if the settings aren't correct or if these pellets are low quality or what is going wrong. There are a ton of reviews of people who claim they have to open a window because there house gets to hot with this stove.... So do any of you have any suggestions of things I can try to get more heat!? Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[mithesaint]

Ok, so lets get started.

Tell us about your venting. Tell us what the bottom three numbers are. Tell us how big your house is, and how well insulated and air sealed it is. What numbers were you burning at? Have you ever used a pellet stove before? Does it seem to be burning normally?

My 10-CPM works pretty good, but a bit of perspective is important. It's a solid, reliable, effective stove. Is it gonna throw heat like a Harman or a Quad? Probably not. Are you going to get a brand new Harman for $1400? Probably not. My stove does a good job of keeping the house warm in the winter, but it works pretty hard when it's cold and windy. I have 2400 sq ft that is well insulated, but poorly sealed. Cheat river pellets burned ok in my stove, but a lot of people don't like those. My favorites are Somersets, Propellets, Magic Spark, Greenways, and Presto Logs. There's lots of other great brands out there, but I only have access to box store brands. If you can get some, Turmans, Barefoots, and and Okanagons are favorites around here.

I've never understood the whole "open a window" thing. Shut the stove off before it gets that hot people. It's a waste of good pellets. It's not like a house goes from 73 degrees to 80 degrees in 10 minutes.

I'd look at adding a thermostat to the stove. Makes life a lot easier, especially in the shoulder season. The Skytech 3301P is wireless and has 4 different time periods, so you can set it back a degree or three while you're gone to save on pellets.

Hope that helps.

 

[pourlepayssauvage]

I can't speak for cheat river pellets as I've never tried them. However, last year when my 10-cpm was new I had two extremes of pellets -- one that was really crappy, and one that was pretty good. With factory settings on a 10-CPM the room convection blower comes on once it hits a certain temperature. The good pellets would start the blower before the start cycle was finished. The crappy pellets would start the blower long after the start cycle was finished...also at factory settings on a feed rate of 1 or 2 the crappy pellets were unable to keep the convection blower going, or even start it at all and with the good pellets the blower would never stop at a feed rate of 1....that's my unscientific method of measuring how good a pellet is in my CPM --- hope that helps.

 

[Jdurham]

Ok the stove is in the basement, so the vent pipe consists of 1ft out of stove T clean out piece then 6ft vertical and a 90 then one foot out through the window and at that point it changes to 4inch pipe. From there a 90 and 3 ft up with a hood on it. Our house is 1300sqft ranch house w/ full basement. We just bought the house in the summer so I don't really know how well insulated it is. The a/c worked really well in the summer though. I had the three settings at "factory" but once I burned about half of a bag it was clear that something wasn't right. The flame was really orange and lazy and the window filled with soot. Then I got on the internet to research what to change. I have never used a pellet stove before I grew up burning coal. What would you suggest I change? It's supposed to get pretty cold here next week so I would really appreciate the help!

 

[Madcodger]

I can't tell you anything about the settings on your stove (no Englander experience) but that is an air-starved flame, I think. Suggest trying any settings that give it more combustion air. Any pellet that's not wet / damp is capable of a steady, bright flame if not air starved, so I really doubt it's your pellets. Your heat output will vary by pellet type / brand, but any will at least burn in a reasonable way if they get enough air. Sounds to me like your damper is too closed.

 

[mithesaint]

Ok the stove is in the basement, so the vent pipe consists of 1ft out of stove T clean out piece then 6ft vertical and a 90 then one foot out through the window and at that point it changes to 4inch pipe. From there a 90 and 3 ft up with a hood on it. Our house is 1300sqft ranch house w/ full basement. We just bought the house in the summer so I don't really know how well insulated it is. The a/c worked really well in the summer though. I had the three settings at "factory" but once I burned about half of a bag it was clear that something wasn't right. The flame was really orange and lazy and the window filled with soot. Then I got on the internet to research what to change. I have never used a pellet stove before I grew up burning coal. What would you suggest I change? It's supposed to get pretty cold here next week so I would really appreciate the help!

I'll let someone check my math, but I think your venting is the culprit. Search "EVL". It stands for equivalent vertical length, and its a measure of how well your venting will work. I'm seeing two 90's and a T, which I assume is a 90 as well. Right there you are at 15, which is the limit for 3" pipe, and that doesn't even count the rest of the pipe. You might need to consider switching to 4" pipe, or find a different place to put the stove.

 

[MCPO]

I'll let someone check my math, but I think your venting is the culprit. Search "EVL". It stands for equivalent vertical length, and its a measure of how well your venting will work. I'm seeing two 90's and a T, which I assume is a 90 as well. Right there you are at 15, which is the limit for 3" pipe, and that doesn't even count the rest of the pipe. You might need to consider switching to 4" pipe, or find a different place to put the stove.

I think you missed the increase to 4" for the remainder of the run.

 

[P38X2]

I'm thinking the fact the stoves location has a lot to do with your issue as well. Nothing to do with the stoves settings, which seem like they need to be addressed, the stove being in the basement can give the false perception the stove isn't throwing much heat, ESPECIALLY if you don't have insulation down there.

 

[MCPO]

For sure ! As P38X2 says, unless the basement walls are insulated you aren`t gonna get a lot of heat upstairs since the exposed concrete sucks up heat and transfers it to the outside surrounding earth. The exposed concrete floor also absorbs a lot of heat.

 

[mithesaint]

I think you missed the increase to 4" for the remainder of the run.

Right, but if my math is right, he's already at 15 EVL when it switches to 4", so I think it's pushing the upper limit at the very least.

 

[Jdurham]

Yea my basement does have exposed concrete floors and walls... But shouldn't the stove at least be able to heat the basement up? It's rated for 2200sqft. The vent pipe does go 15 ft of the EVL like you guys are saying and then I switched to 4" pipe. I think I'm going to go to the lowes Home Depot and TSC store today and pick up a few bags of the different pellets and try that. I'll also pick up a bag of insulation and expanding foam and try to seal any places where the heat could escape. Does any one know of any other big box store that sells them or have any recommendations. Also if anyone has a cpm could you describe how full the burn pot should be with pellets and what the flame should look like color and size? On setting 5&5. It might help if I knew what I was looking for so I at. Least know when I'm getting close. Any thought???

 

[BrotherBart]

On the un-insulated basement part. I have had stoves in my 1,000 sq. ft. exposed block/concrete slab basement for 30 years. Cranking the daylights out of a wood stove down there takes at least half a day to warm the place up. Now that a pellet stove is down there it is the same deal. Those walls and floor soak up an unbelievable amount of heat and pass it straight out in the dirt. When I had my office down there I had to have my desk in front of the stove to not freeze to death every morning until around noon.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Yea my basement does have exposed concrete floors and walls... But shouldn't the stove at least be able to heat the basement up? It's rated for 2200sqft. The vent pipe does go 15 ft of the EVL like you guys are saying and then I switched to 4" pipe. I think I'm going to go to the lowes Home Depot and TSC store today and pick up a few bags of the different pellets and try that. I'll also pick up a bag of insulation and expanding foam and try to seal any places where the heat could escape. Does any one know of any other big box store that sells them or have any recommendations. Also if anyone has a cpm could you describe how full the burn pot should be with pellets and what the flame should look like color and size? On setting 5&5. It might help if I knew what I was looking for so I at. Least know when I'm getting close. Any thought???

If the vent run EVL exceeds 15 the entire run must be of 4" venting not just the part of it past the "15 foot" line.

Depending upon the vent system and the pellets you may have to play with the low burn air and/or fuel to get a proper burn going, improper burns produce sub optimal heat.

Your stove is rated for BTU's not square footage to make this point clear, if you have a single story house exactly 2200 square feet in area and you have zero insulation just bare wood all around and the outside temperature is 50 degrees you will likely feel some heat close to the stove with the stove cranked wide open, if the outside temperature is -10 you might have to get an infrared heat gun to find the frozen bucket of water 3 feet from the stove. What a stove can heat for area depends upon the temperature difference between the area to be heated and the outside and the insulation value of what is between the two areas.

That 2200 square foot figure is an up to depending upon figure (hence the little verbiage and funny symbols usual found by it). Your house is likely not built exactly the same as mine. What I can heat with my setup may be more than you can with the same stove.

ETA: Is your OAK installed and if not it must be and if it is please tell us how long it is and any bends and its diameter, the fresh air system works like the vent does and there are limits.

 

[mithesaint]

You probably don't need to clean it after every bag either. Forgot to mention that before. During the burning season, I clean every 1-2 weeks, which can be up to 30 bags if it's really cold. If you're shutting down the stove and letting it cool, that might be why you can't keep things warm. Slow and steady wins the race with this stove. 5-5 will keep my house at 70 if it's 30 degrees outside and not too windy, if that helps. BUT, that's running constantly. If I shut it down, I have to work it harder to catch up, or wait a few hours to catch up.

At 5-5 the flame is a few inches above the burnpot, and there is about an inch of embers/pellets in the bottom of the pot. Does that helps?