Englander NC-30

[ajreid]

Looking at the clearances from flue pipe to wall the manual says 16'' min. The manual also says with side and rear heat shields the clearance of the stove can be reduced to 10''.with single wall connector. I'm having trouble understanding what side and rear heat shields on the stove have to do with stove

NOTE: Flue Connector to back wall (C): 1. Single wall connector with rear shield = 16”
2. Single wall connector with rear & side shields = 10”
3. Double wall connector with rear & side shields = 7”

 

[wendell]

I'm having trouble understanding what side and rear heat shields on the stove have to do with stove

????

 

[ajreid]

I'm having trouble understanding what side and rear heat shields on the stove have to do with stove

????

Sorry
I was wandering how side and rear shields on the stove could allow the clearance on the stove pipe to be closer to the wall. seems like the stove pipe that close would increase the wall temps.

 

[wendell]

Got it.

Yes, that is curious. I don't think I would want single wall pipe 10" from my walls!

 

[wendell]

But, if they said it they have to have tested it.

And, now that I think about it, my Morso has single wall pipe and as I recall, it also lists a shorter distance to the wall with single wall pipe.

But, mine is 17" to a tile wall as you can see from my avatar and the wall behind it gets as warm as I would want it to get.

 

[begreen]

The stove may be tested closer with shields on the stove, but single wall pipe is tested at 18" and I don't think the stove docs trump that. It appears to be an error or an assumption that needs clarification by Englander. Curious that it appears to be in contradiction to their own Illustration 1 that follows the clearances table. I'm wondering if they meant with the connector pipe also shielded.

 

[ajreid]

The stove may be tested closer with shields on the stove, but single wall pipe is tested at 18" and I don't think the stove docs trump that. It appears to be an error or an assumption that needs clarification by Englander. Curious that it appears to be in contradiction to their own Illustration 1 that follows the clearances table. I'm wondering if they meant with the connector pipe also shielded.

Do they make a shield for the stove pipe?

 

[blades]

NO shield for stove pipe , use double wall stove pipe( that is what a shielded pipe is), or if you want to go all out triple wall insulated stainless. the back of the nc-30 is already shielded from the mfg. the shield plates they offer are for the sides to reduce clearances left to right. With mine 500-600 deg on top of stove the double wall pipe registers around 150-250 on the infrared gun depending on where you take reading.

 

[Todd]

Yes, they do make pipe shields.

http://www.amazon.com/Copperfield-HomeSaver-Stovepipe-24-ga-35-Stovepipes/dp/B001D1FY0Q

 

[BrotherBart]

Having the side shields on my 30 I am going to go out on limb here and take a guess. When the stove is hot the convection air literally "flows" up from inside the the shields. Since Mike from ESW has stated here many times that clearances are exactly as they were dictated by the testing lab results I think that air flow is what makes that pipe clearance difference. With that upward directed air flow all around the pipe the stove just didn't require as much clearance for the pipe when tested.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

the chart layout for clearances are what the testing agency set when they do the safety testing on the stove. when these tests are performed, the position or "clearance" of the flue pipe is not taken into consideration at all, only the stove and what it radiates. standard clearances from pipe (18" single wall, and 6" double wall) are not considered when the measurements are decided.though they are relevant when the stove is installed, in other words if you have a stove which lists a clearance of say 18 inches (just to make the math easy) and the flue collar is 3 inches forward of the back of the stove, this would cause the flue to be 15 inches from the wall and that would not allow the stove to be mounted there unless a wall shield were installed to allow a closer clearance to the pipe.

note also that NFPA clearance reduction table 12.6.2.1 allows a precentage of reduction based on the type of protection but also gives a minimum clearance even with protection (best case 12 inches) this means the stove cannot be closer than 12 inches unless specifically listed to be there as is the case with the 30-nc. now, if the wall protection is not extended up to also protect from the connector pipe (see table 9.5.1.2 ) which allows clearace of single wall pipe in best case scenario of 6 inches the stove could be mounted as close as the table in the manual allows, the pipe however may need to be shielded from the combustible surface to achieve this clearance even though the stove may not have to be.

its complecated , but to simplify , you look at the clearances allowed for the stove , and also look at the clearances allowed for the connector pipe seperately. pipe must be 18" for single wall unless its shielded per nfpa211 in which case it can be as close as 6", the stove clearances would be as listed in the chart dependant on which type connector pipe is used or if mounted to the stove heat shields are added. for instance tyhe "B" measurement listed for the 30 is 14 inches when no stove mounted heat shields are used and single wall pipe is installed, this would put the flue pipe at 16 inches which is too close for single wall, you would then have to move the stove 2 inches further out to allow for the 18 inch minimum for the pipe , or install a wall mounted protector which would allow the closer clearance to the pipe.

hope this makes it clearer for you , if you wish to chat about it , drop me a PM with a daytime phone number and i'll call you to go over it.

 

[begreen]

Mike, thanks for the clarification. Can you add this to the improvements in the next printing of the documentation? As they are printed, the clearance specs are misleading to the average person. One has to wonder how many people haven't come here for clarification of this ambiguity and installed their stoves with single wall pipe at dangerously close distances.

 

[begreen]

The stove may be tested closer with shields on the stove, but single wall pipe is tested at 18" and I don't think the stove docs trump that. It appears to be an error or an assumption that needs clarification by Englander. Curious that it appears to be in contradiction to their own Illustration 1 that follows the clearances table. I'm wondering if they meant with the connector pipe also shielded.

Do they make a shield for the stove pipe?

I don't think Englander does, but yes you can get them from stove shops or online.

http://www.northlineexpress.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5CO-54120&source=froogle&kw=5CO-54120

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Mike, thanks for the clarification. Can you add this to the improvements in the next printing of the documentation? As they are printed, the clearance specs are misleading to the average person. One has to wonder how many people haven't come here for clarification of this ambiguity and installed their stoves with single wall pipe at dangerously close distances.

yeah i agre , i expect i should get with out "tamms" guy to see about getting this clarified more in the manual. the method in setting clearances that is used in our newer model stove manuals is the way its been required now to be laid out , i dont like it because it is confusing , but it is what it is. i think though a paragraph such as i typed out above could be added to make it less ambiguous

i'll definately work on it

 

[ajreid]

Thanks for all the help. The manual wasn't very clear to me. I like those stove pipe shields just for the added safety. Do the shields need to extend to the ceiling?
Also has anyone ever tried fiber cement board behind the stove screwed to a sheetrock wall?
They have his at our local Home Depot: http://www.homedepot.com/Building-M...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053