Fascinating article about Hardwood vs Softwood pellets.........

[bostonfan49]

very interesting read, sure to cause some controversy! Excluding the part about Wood Stoves, the end result is the quality of the raw materials and the moisture content. We all know that there are some garbage pellets out there, so to me this article says: Since all the products say Super and or Premium Pellets than I should be looking for pellets with the lowest Moisture Content.....assuming that the number is real! In my 5th season I have burned Vermont Softwood Pellets about 90% of the time. I do get a "black" M55 pattern on my glass but I never get clinkers and so far the lowest ash of any product. Every other pellet, Hardwood or Hardwood mix, gives clinkers and mega ash. I never really paid any attention to the moisture content so now I am going to be checking whenever I am out and see pellets for sale.
........then again, this is just this persons opinion....
(broken link removed to http://allaboutwoodpellets.com/hardwood_softwood.php)

Thanks, Bill

 

[tjnamtiw]

Kind of like seeing 'fancy' fruit preserves. Ever see 'plain' or 'sloppy' fruit preserves? Now, someone is using 'Platinum' pellets... Give a @#$%^%ing break! Just because it says 'Platinum', some fool will plunk down $400 a ton.

I've never seen moisture content on any bag of pellets.

And this article says exactly what I said in another thread > density is the key and not whether it's hardwood or softwood. It depends on how much sawdust is compressed into each pellet. That's where the fallacy of 'hotter' pellets comes from.

 

[Tonyray]

Kind of like seeing 'fancy' fruit preserves. Ever see 'plain' or 'sloppy' fruit preserves? Now, someone is using 'Platinum' pellets... Give a @#$%^%ing break! Just because it says 'Platinum', some fool will plunk down $400 a ton.

I've never seen moisture content on any bag of pellets.

And this article says exactly what I said in another thread > density is the key and not whether it's hardwood or softwood. It depends on how much sawdust is compressed into each pellet. That's where the fallacy of 'hotter' pellets comes from.

this part is soooooooo true.:
But, remember that with wood pellets, they all start out as sawdust. And regardless of whether the sawdust is hardwood, softwood or a mixture of the two, they will all get compressed to the same high density regardless of whether the sawdust is oak, pine, maple, fir, cherry or any other species of wood. This is an absolute fact and something that is often a source of confusion for many wood pellet burners. Therefore, there really is no such thing as a “hard” wood pellet or a “soft” wood pellet….there’s just wood pellets!

 

[bostonfan49]

So Tonyray, If they are presumably all compressed to the same density, why then can't you have a softwood and a hard wood pellet? If it says Hard or Soft...than that is what you have.......! The Vermont softies have a moisture content of 4-6%, not sure what this range could be? What I am seeing a lot of this year is "Salt Content" Damn....! Now I have to check my stove for Blood Pressure and Diabetes....Don't want to offend anyone hear, but what's next Gluten Free pellets?

Thanks, Bill

 

[Swedishchef]

I was attracted to the title of this thread. Personally, I don't have a pellet stove. But in my head (which works in a somewhat scientific way) I have always considered pellets to be the same density: if they are pressed into the same shape/size/weight from dust (either softwood dust or hardwood dust) then it shouldn't change a thing. All other factors being equal, it should make no difference. Some companies are better quality than others (different binders, fillers, etc).

Interesting read.

Andrew

 

[bostonfan49]

I was attracted to the title of this thread. Personally, I don't have a pellet stove. But in my head (which works in a somewhat scientific way) I have always considered pellets to be the same density: if they are pressed into the same shape/size/weight from dust (either softwood dust or hardwood dust) then it shouldn't change a thing. All other factors being equal, it should make no difference. Some companies are better quality than others (different binders, fillers, etc).

Interesting read.

Andrew

Andrew, one pellet is still made of hardwood and one is made from softwood, so they have to be different and therfore would burn differently....yes?

Bill

 

[LuvMyPellets]

So someone creates a website" anonymously": Websters:without any name acknowledged, as that of author, contributor, or the like: Should this be taken as an expert opinion or just another opinion without factual basis. The contact information lists an address that appears to be a bank.

 

[Swedishchef]

Bill: all types of wood are composed roughly of the same compounds/components. All else being equal ( impurities, moisture content, etc) I presume the dust from hardwoods and softwoods would be very similar in texture, etc. so if the pellet companies can press the same weight of softwood or hardwood into the pellet mold, the density will be the same. Therefore you should have the same heat output.

The best way to reality determine would be to perform bomb calorimetry on one pellet from each pellet company, that would give you the energy (heat) contained in the pellets.

Andrew

 

[Light in the Dark]

Kind of like seeing 'fancy' fruit preserves. Ever see 'plain' or 'sloppy' fruit preserves? Now, someone is using 'Platinum' pellets... Give a @#$%^%ing break! Just because it says 'Platinum', some fool will plunk down $400 a ton.

I've never seen moisture content on any bag of pellets.

And this article says exactly what I said in another thread > density is the key and not whether it's hardwood or softwood. It depends on how much sawdust is compressed into each pellet. That's where the fallacy of 'hotter' pellets comes from.

Okanagan Gold pellets have the content listed on the bags. This is the platinum version, but the same verbage applies

(broken image removed)

 

[Tonyray]

...! Now I have to check my stove for Blood Pressure and Diabetes....Don't want to offend anyone hear, but what's next Gluten Free pellets?

U made me laugh today Bostonfan....
Softwoods and hardwoods burning debates are carried over from Savy Wood stove owners who knew there was a difference.[I think Softwoods burn better or slower. not sure]
But Other than seasoning, Firewood went right into the stove without the Manufacturing process that Those woods go thru before becoming Pellet fuel so things change.,,.....But, some People Still Swear by 1 or the other Just as we all swear by our Favorite Pellet brand..
My Uncle stills swears by a Buick no matter how much they change it..

 

[Swedishchef]

When it comes to wood stoves, hardwood is more dense than softwood. The burning process is identicle but the hardwood burns for longer. In perfect conditions, 2 identical pieces (1 softwood and 1 hardwood) would give off as energy (heat) per minute (for example) except that the hardwood would give off heat for a longer period of time.

But when it comes to pellets, I believe it is all in the marketing and making consumers believe one or the others.

Andrew

 

[Newschool]

He is completely wrong about the 2nd half of this:

"This is because in a wood stove, hardwood will burn hotter and longer than softwood will and softwood will burn much dirtier."

To have something so basic wrong, it is hard to believe the rest...

 

[Swedishchef]

He is completely wrong about the 2nd half of this:

"This is because in a wood stove, hardwood will burn hotter and longer than softwood will and softwood will burn much dirtier."

To have something so basic wrong, it is hard to believe the rest...

I didn't get that far down in the article.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Pellets are NOT all the same density just because the process is the same. It depends on how much force is put into pushing the wood into the die holes. Like I've said before, some brands give me 4 buckets of pellets and what I'm using now gives me 3 so the bulk density is different. For the same drop in pellets, the higher density pellets give me more flame so I have to close down my feed gate to keep the btu/hr close to the same as I had with the less dense pellets that required the feed gate to be wide open. You're burning cellulose and lignin, whether it's hardwood or softwood. Like Swedishchef said, it's all in the marketing. Buy your platinum, your gold, your super duper heat bombs, or your HD load. They're all cellulose and lignin, and who knows what else.

 

[Ranger72]

I coat all my pellets in snake oil before burning them.

 

[railfanron]

I am just going to add this to the discussion. The Gross BTUs in a pound of completely dry wood is 8600 BTUs give or take a 100 or so NO MATTER what the species is. Based on this fact the density of the pellet is way more important than the kind of wood. Because all pellet stoves are volume/hour feeders you would get more heat out of a higher density pellet because the stove can feed more pounds/hour. I don't have a need to burn softwood so I can't say they burn hotter, longer or whatever. Bear in mind softwood is lighter per cubic foot than hardwood so the pellets would have to be compressed to a higher density to have the same volume per pound.
Ron

 

[Lake Girl]

So someone creates a website" anonymously": Websters:without any name acknowledged, as that of author, contributor, or the like: Should this be taken as an expert opinion or just another opinion without factual basis. The contact information lists an address that appears to be a bank.

For fun I did a google street view ... "Look up, look way up and you'll see Rusty" (sorry, Friendly Giant fan when I was a kid - Canadian kids show. Rusty is a rooster). I digress - apartments or offices are likely above that bank...

 

[Swedishchef]

Pellets are NOT all the same density just because the process is the same. It depends on how much force is put into pushing the wood into the die holes. Like I've said before, some brands give me 4 buckets of pellets and what I'm using now gives me 3 so the bulk density is different. For the same drop in pellets, the higher density pellets give me more flame so I have to close down my feed gate to keep the btu/hr close to the same as I had with the less dense pellets that required the feed gate to be wide open. You're burning cellulose and lignin, whether it's hardwood or softwood. Like Swedishchef said, it's all in the marketing. Buy your platinum, your gold, your super duper heat bombs, or your HD load. They're all cellulose and lignin, and who knows what else.

So essentially, you could be using hardwood pellets that are less dense than softwood pellets due to the density of the packing.

I due love how our tendency in society has gone to using nice acronyms that catch people's eyes. The world of marketing is booming! " Buy our extreme titanium++ nuclear pellets, you'll get more heat that an average pellet". Kinda like "Extreme 25 minute workout and diet plan". lol

Andrew

 

[Swedishchef]

I am just going to add this to the discussion. The Gross BTUs in a pound of completely dry wood is 8600 BTUs give or take a 100 or so NO MATTER what the species is. Based on this fact the density of the pellet is way more important than the kind of wood. Because all pellet stoves are volume/hour feeders you would get more heat out of a higher density pellet because the stove can feed more pounds/hour. I don't have a need to burn softwood so I can't say they burn hotter, longer or whatever. Bear in mind softwood is lighter per cubic foot than hardwood so the pellets would have to be compressed to a higher density to have the same volume per pound.
Ron

FWIW, I don't buy pellets, I just assumed when writing my comments that all bags were the same density (IE 40 lbs for 2 cu ft or whatever).

I still think someone needs to do some calorimetry to find out what the best yield/company is. They have done it with eco logs in the wood stove industry, someone should do it with pellets.

Andrew

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

FWIW, I don't buy pellets, I just assumed when writing my comments that all bags were the same density (IE 40 lbs for 2 cu ft or whatever).

I still think someone needs to do some calorimetry to find out what the best yield/company is. They have done it with eco logs in the wood stove industry, someone should do it with pellets.

Andrew

There is a range of densities in what is produced and they also test pellets for the heat produced per pound.

So all that information is available, you just need to find it.

 

[tjnamtiw]

So essentially, you could be using hardwood pellets that are less dense than softwood pellets due to the density of the packing.

I due love how our tendency in society has gone to using nice acronyms that catch people's eyes. The world of marketing is booming! " Buy our extreme titanium++ nuclear pellets, you'll get more heat that an average pellet". Kinda like "Extreme 25 minute workout and diet plan". lol

Andrew

That is exactly what happened to me one year.

http://www.woodpelletfuel.org/Carolina_Wood_Pellets/
These pellets were extremely light and were the ones that filled up 4 buckets instead of 3 that I get now with my present 100% oak pellets.

 

[tjnamtiw]

There is a range of densities in what is produced and they also test pellets for the heat produced per pound.

So all that information is available, you just need to find it.

The key phrase is 'per pound'.

 

[Lake Girl]

Found this little tidbit on (broken link removed)
Softwood vs Hardwood pellets
Through the pelletizing process, wood is ground fine then the sawdust is compressed to make wood pellets. Although hardwood is naturally more dense, after compression, both the hardwood and the softwood pellets have equal density. But, because most softwood species have higher levels of resins, softwood pellets will produce more BTUs per pound generating more heat and producing less ash than hardwood heating pellets. (bold my emphasis)

They have both hardwood and softwood and have done the Twin Ports Testing for both:
(broken link removed)
(broken link removed)

Edit: Both these pellets are likely made on the same equipment with the difference being feedstock not compression.

However, add the variances in compression depending on manufacturer and their equipment, you can have very different burn properties.

 

[rona]

After reading this article it sounds like a writer hired by a politician.
When you compare different pellets and the heat produced keep a eye open for the length of the pellets as the bigger they are the more room they take and there will be open areas. Versus smaller pellets that naturally fill up voids and produce more heat. If you are burning a multifuel stove and compare pellets versus corn or wheat you will see what I mean. One could also compare the amount of waste or ashes left after burning and come up with totally different answers. This would also depend on what type of exh venting you have. A 36 inch pipe out the back would act different then a 25 foot vertical system.
Basically one party could have to empty his ash pan once a day and I know another party that empties his once a month due to the draft from his 25 foot chimney sucking up the ash through the chimney. Looking at that I wonder how many btus is also being sucked up that chimney?
Maybe the lesson learned is don't believe everything you read on the label- try a few bags first if possible then if you like that brand buy a larger amount and hope that company uses the same supplier for your bigger purchase.
Then we have the concept that some stoves are more efficient then others because of design features. In other words how much heat is captured and circulated in the home rather then blown out the exh pipe.
I think I have opened a large can of worms but these are all different subjects a newby should be concerned with and probably should be addressed when asking for advice. I do suggest one should look deeper then the picture on the brochure. If possible talk to someone who has owned a similar model for a couple of seasons.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Bill: all types of wood are composed roughly of the same compounds/components. All else being equal ( impurities, moisture content, etc) I presume the dust from hardwoods and softwoods would be very similar in texture, etc. so if the pellet companies can press the same weight of softwood or hardwood into the pellet mold, the density will be the same. Therefore you should have the same heat output.

Andrew

Anybody who has worked with wood knows that not all woods are equal. They differ in more ways than density and moisture content. Some woods have such high mineral content that they quickly dull even carbide cutting tools. Others scorch at much lower temperatures than the rest, still others are so oily that finishes won't adhere to them. I would expect those properties to influence the burn properties of the wood as well.
I doubt that pellets are made from exotic spiecies of wood, but even the intrinsic property differences between Oak and Spruce should lead to different burn characteristics. They are really not made of the same stuff or, at the very least, not in the same proportions.

The caloric content is substantially the parameter that we buy pellets for. It is still not reasonable to say that BTU/$ is the only thing of importance. Differences in the cleanliness (dust and fines), resin and creosote production, ash content and residual ash are also important... at least they are to me.

Just my opinion. You are welcome to your own.