Fisher Honey Bear

[chuckmunch]

Hello Everyone! I'm very new to wood stoves n such. Just purchased a home that had a wood stove, previous owner took it with them. I decided to dive in and get one after spending close to 1k in oil for about two months worth of moderate heat. Anyways, I purchased a Fisher Honey Bear stove. Looked it over (with my limited knowledge) and saw something questionable. There is a piece of metal just above the inside opening that is bent/warped. I have to assume that this was due to over firing. I'm just wondering if it needs to be repaired before operation or is it something I can look at later? Is it critical to the operation and/or safety of the stove? Not sure if I should be looking at a new stove or not, but I'll attach some pics. Also, the stove has a 6" opening at the top and the thimble in my wall is 7" connected to a Metalbestos chimney class A model SS. Its not cleaned up, and I have replacement firebrick for the cracked bricks. It sits on a pedestal, and I'm not sure if I need to set it up on a hearth immediately?? Picks of my install location are attached. Please excuse the condition of everything, still in renovation mode. I like the way these look and I want to get mine in the condition of a similar stove selling on Ebay at the following link:

(broken link removed to http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fisher-Honey-Bear-Wood-Stove-Fireplace-Will-Not-Ship-Pickup-Only-/262118231090?hash=item3d0776cc32:g:jwwAAOSw~bFWMqQV)

Any comments/advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[vasten]

The fisher expert will be along shortly to answer your stove questions.

In terms of do you need a hearth, I would seriously suggest something under the stove at least a piece of durarock it doesn't need to be raised but a protective layer between the stove and the floor. In the unlikely event that a hot coal falls out of the stove you want something under there to prevent it from catching the tiles on fire etc.

A few questions on your set up, will it be in the basement or on the first floor, is that a heat shield already on the wall with a 1" airgap behind it and what is the over all height of your chimney.

 

[coaly]

Welcome to the Forum !
First, this stove requires a 6 inch chimney flue all the way.
Your chimney flue must measure 6 inches across the inside diameter to the top.
It is required by the manual and must be installed as tested (UL Listing) in the US or Canada.
The reason for this requirement is the stove has such a small firebox, you will not have enough wasted heat up the stack to keep it clean, draft properly to get enough air for combustion, and keep glass clean with air wash. The heat loss will be so great heating the larger flue that the stove will not heat properly and not have enough usable heat inside to heat the interior area. Essentially, you need a larger stove for the larger flue. You didn't mention the square footage you are heating. This stove with proper chimney heats 1250 square feet. That is calculated with the standard using an 8 foot ceiling in Seattle Washington. So a Mama Bear rated for 1500 sf. is going to heat less area with the larger chimney flue. You need to size the stove to the chimney AND the heated area.
That's the end of the bad news!

Your eBay auction link is a member here too. He reconditions stoves very well - we can give you the details if you need tips getting the original look.

Installation information in manual here;
https://www.hearth.com/images/uploads/Honey_Bear_Convertible_Manual.pdf

I will look at one to see what metal is warped. I only know of the stove front plate that door seal is welded to that could be there. I'm sure it can be straightened without a problem.

*** Your top left picture shows what appears to be the original tool that came with this model. It should have a bend in the end and is used to open and close air intake sliders. (it's NOT a poker) I'm REALLY interested in the measurements of that tool !! Seems most Honey Bears no longer have it with them including the one in my collection. If you end up selling this stove, keep me in mind. I'll make it worth your while. In the mean time could you measure the steel rod and give me the measurements of the handle length and length of rod after bend to tip ?? I have a makeshift one for display, but I could only make it close to original from the picture below. If I have to buy another entire stove to get an original, so be it. ***
Here is the only one I've seen (Ohio) with that tool (on ash fender) and I've been watching for one quite a few years.

This is the optional color they were available with called Metallic Brown. Your model is "Brass and Glass" and looks best with this original metallic paint by Stove Bright.

This is a better indication of color. It has a purple hue in different light. Very elegant. This Grandma III went for $1626 on eBay in Nov. 2010 !

 

[chuckmunch]

@ Vasten - Thank you for your reply. My chimney height is 17' 6" to the base of the cap. Yes, that is a heat shield with air gap...already in place, left by the previous owner. I don't really like the look, and was wondering if there was a masonry option (type of veneer or other brick) that could be used to build an acceptable hearth to put the stove that looks like I won't be able to use. :-(

@ Coaly - Thank you for your reply. I honestly thought that tool was a poker . I have a copy of an owner's manual that I downloaded and thought that a minimum of 6" across on the chimney would do. My stove is in the basement, about 1000 sqft with 7ft ceilings. As it stands, I'll probably be looking for a suitable stove and will be selling this one. Any recommendations on a stove to match the current setup I have?

The tool is attached with pics. If my tape measure isn't suitable, I can re-take the pics with a ruler so you could better see the measurements.

You guys are very quick on this forum and I sincerely appreciate all the information and responses! Thanks!

 

[coaly]

Thanks for the great pics, I can at least make one as close as possible with those measurements.

I'd watch for a Mama Bear. They are still a 6 inch stove but almost double the firebox size. They take up to 24 inch log and leave a lot of coals and charcoal in the back for restart the next day. This one will be all but out the next day, even with the correct flue.
When a manual specifies 6 inch, they mean 6 inch only. If they gave a minimum, people would connect it to an 8 inch square masonry flue or larger and expect it to work. Another reason this stove requires 6 inch, is it has a built in baffle in the exhaust. This prevents heat from escaping directly up flue, extracting more into the stove with less waste out the exhaust. It also slows the velocity going up pipe. A larger chimney is capable of more draft when more heat is allowed up. Just as a larger engine is capable of more horsepower with more fuel and air. Think of the waste heat from stove as the chimneys fuel, and flue size as cubic inch of an engine. It simply requires more fuel to make more HP where a smaller engine is more efficient, but has limited HP. That's what you need in a chimney for this stove. Efficiency and not a huge "engine". Always think of the chimney as the engine that drives the stove. The smaller the stove, the more critical it gets. 6 to 7 or 6 to 8 may not seem like much, but 6 to 8 is almost double the square inch area inside. That takes almost twice the heat to keep it the same temperature as the smaller flue. Even the larger Goldilocks and Teddy Bear require insulated 6 inch chimneys. The stoves loose their efficiency and Fisher would not have had happy customers. The larger flue also allows hot flue gasses to expand which cools them greatly. I've measured drops as much as 300 to 170 going through a pipe increaser from 6 to 8. The key is keeping inside flue temp above 250* all the way up, or water vapor condenses allowing smoke particles to stick to flue walls. This is creosote and can form rapidly. So a smaller more efficient stove doesn't have the extra wasted heat to leave up. Most people think the chimney is just there to vent smoke, but it is what makes the stove work. Air would not go into the stove supplying oxygen to the fire without the proper draft. Get it right and you will be happy with your stove. No stove will work properly with the wrong chimney.

The twisted metal above door opening is the air inlet channel. Never saw one warp out of shape, it should always have cooling air coming in across it making it one of the cooler parts of the stove. Maybe some stitch welds missing or broken? Don't be afraid to beat it back into place with a large hammer. There is a wedge at top where the right door handle latches to pull door tight. Make sure that stays intact. Also make sure the top air adjustment slides freely when done. Notice it also has a horizontal plate above door inside about 3 inches wide. This prevents smoke from rolling downward contacting glass.
Many pick these stoves up for 1 or 200, replace brick as necessary and paint easily doubling or tripling their money. Prices and demand is seasonal as prices increase before winter. Only touch your brass with precious metal polish - nothing abrasive.

 

[coaly]

Your heat shield is also resting on the floor with no air space under it. This needs to be raised on bricks so as air heated behind it rises, cool air enters at the bottom. The circulation keeps wall cold. It can be made with cement board or cement board added to it for stone or brick facing. When built correctly, it becomes an approved heat shield for unlisted stoves reducing clearance up to 66% of the required clearance. (normally 36 inches reduced to 12) It must have at least 1 inch air space behind it, and use non combustible spacers, usually ceramic. No wall fasteners may be in the center line behind stove.

 

[chuckmunch]

@ coaly - I saw this grandpa bear that looks good and a pretty go price:

(broken link removed to http://frederick.craigslist.org/for/5425992058.html)

and also this:

(broken link removed to http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/for/5427195899.html)

You prefer the fisher stoves over what they are selling at the big box stores these days? Building that hearth sounds testy. So If I take down the heat shield, remove all material to the block, the floor down to the slab, could I not use standard mortar and rock or other brick to build the hearth? Would that sill require clearance behind it? If so, would you have an example or plans of how this should be done?

The 3" plate just inside the door that you are referring to is what is bent in the photo, I think I may just list it for what I got it for $250, and skip the refinishing of this stove. I want to focus on getting a new stove in place with a respectable hearth and build the basement around that. Do any stoves come with 7" exhaust or will I almost always need an adapter for this chimney?

 

[vasten]

I used cement board to build my heat shield on my walls. I think if you look on the wiki section of the site there are the requirements for building one, air gap requirements, how much the clearance to combustibles would be reduced etc.

If the paneling wasn't on the wall you wouldn't even need one and could do your stone veneer right to the block wall. If you plan to keep the paneling then you could install durarock over the paneling with the air gap and put a stone veneer on that. and match it with a hearth under it, make sure that if you do leave 1/2-1" gap between the top of hearth pad and the bottom of the heat shield on the wall for air flow behind it.

I know that Berkshire made a "clone" shall we say of the fisher that has a 7 in top vent. My nephew has one and loves it, it is his primary heat source.

But any stove with a 6 or 7 in vent should work, I think that the restriction was more specific to just that stove I could be wrong though.

I like the fisher vs the other stove you posted, but need for the expert to chime in on that one, lol

Coaly I love your analogies for chimneys, when I installed mine I asked at my local box store what they knew about them and they said well smoke goes up them and they are rated for x number of degrees and if you exceed that temp you have bigger issues to worry about than whats going on in the chimney lol.... too bad I didn't know about this site then.

 

[chuckmunch]

Vasten I got that same reply at three local box stores. There is a hearth and stove store about an hour away, was thinking of paying them a visit but I fear they will exceed my budget. I read that the newer stoves were more efficient than the older and have other advantages but the more I read (including reviews) the more it seems the variables involved play a significant role in each user experience.

Hearth: When I do build it, the paneling is coming down, definitely! All the way to the brick, then I'd like to put a stone veneer on the block wall. How am I to get the 1" gap behind the veneer? Do I have to build a hollow veneer wall? If so, where does that vent? Same for the floor portion?

 

[coaly]

Grandpa and Papa are too large unless you have good circulation to heat the entire upstairs as well.
There are many reasons I recommended the Mama. First, the size is correct. A deep narrow stove starts and burns better than placing wood across. The double door stoves were built for fire viewing. That may or may not be a concern. If not, stay away from a stove that can be used as a fireplace. Burning with doors open and a screen in place allows most all heat directly up chimney and they are not considered a radiant heater in Fireplace Mode. They were also built with a larger 8 inch outlet for open door burning and venting into an existing much larger fireplace flue. The larger outlet is able to heat the larger area keeping it cleaner. It is a waste of fuel and would need to be reduced to your 7 inch flue. Reducing any pipe or flue is against code, but the double door Fishers will physically work fine reduced with the proper chimney as many are.

Most all newer stoves require 6 inch insulated only.

Clearance is to combustibles. Wall shields are for reducing clearance to combustible material. If you don't have combustible material, I think 3 inches was required for air circulation minimum to prevent warping of side and rear sheets.

 

[vasten]

IF you are tearing it down to block you wont need it as the block is considered non combustible. A heat shield is only advised if you have something combustible behind the stove, such as 2*4's sheet rock paneling etc. anything that if heated excessively could ignite. or basically what coaly just said as I was typing this lol

I don't think you need any help with your chimney, my advice would be to just have it inspected by a credible chimney sweep since you just bought the place. More than likely just needs a quick cleaning, then you should be good to install your stove.

I have run two EPA stoves, and wasnt impressed with either of them. but that is my opinion. New stoves do seem to burn less wood, and are "cleaner" but there are trade offs.

 

[chuckmunch]

Chimney sweep came out and checked it out yesterday. Everything looks good. I asked them to quote me on installing the honey bear, they gave me a quote of 900+ to do this along with replacing my flashing. 0.0 That seems a bit pricey, so did the $300.00 sweep, but I felt it was necessary for my first go round.

I do kinda like to see the fire burning, sort of hypnotic for me. I looked around just briefly and the mamma bears are few, poppa bears are everywhere. This stove venture is looking to get interestingly tedious. But I'm up to the challenge!

 

[coaly]

I prefer Fisher with a baffle added for many reasons. #1 is fuel. I cut standing dead only and have enough land and areas to cut for free. I never seem to have enough fresh cut wood ahead a couple years to season long enough for a newer stove. It is mostly oak around here which could take 3 years to season.
I have 2 chimneys. 1 for a wood stove for primary heat and a back up for coal stove. (it wasn't used since putting the Kitchen Queen in place) No electric, oil, gas..... My wood stove serves as cook top, oven, hot water and single floor 1880 square foot heating. I also added a thermostat on my stove. There are no secondary burn stoves that could do that. They barely boil water on the top. They have larger temp fluctuations and burning the sometimes junk I have, would have a cold house.

I have a Mama Bear in a log cabin (actually 3 bedroom log home with basement) identical to a neighbors that were both brought from Finland in the early 70's. He bought a new Lopi last year.
We both operated his and after a few hours, the secondary combustion is out, the glowing mass stays hot, but the stove temp and indoor temp slowly drops until the stove is refilled. Open air, shut down when up to temp, and secondary combustion is back for another couple hours. My Mama Bear is in the center of cabin and radiates in all directions. I have no electric there and am comfortable. He bought his for very close reduced clearance in a corner. He does have one hot area when it's going good, and mostly cold areas. He added some electric baseboards for those areas this year. (he lives in his full time) I'm gone for 8 hours or more and come back to a warm cabin. I just can't be bothered loading it every 4 hours to keep a constant temperature. My $100 stove and just over $200 for Dura-Vent kit and chimney section compared to how many thousand????? I don't think so. I have more than that invested in Fisher feet sitting on my desk !!

 

[chuckmunch]

LOL! Very good info! When you say baffle added, is that what the manufacturer installed or did you have to do the modifications? I just had a thought about using this honey bear to heat my two story garage. Its all wood, I'm a bit afraid of attempting this.... Could this possibly heat this structure, blue building on the left in the picture?

That piece in the front that's bent, will it terribly affect operation and if I bend it back straight, should it be sealed?

Momma bear is the way to go or could I do the poppa bear with same performance?

What do you thing about the bio bricks and similar products?

 

[coaly]

Chimney sweep came out and checked it out yesterday. Everything looks good. I asked them to quote me on installing the honey bear, they gave me a quote of 900+ to do this along with replacing my flashing. 0.0 That seems a bit pricey, so did the $300.00 sweep, but I felt it was necessary for my first go round.

I do kinda like to see the fire burning, sort of hypnotic for me. I looked around just briefly and the mamma bears are few, poppa bears are everywhere. This stove venture is looking to get interestingly tedious. But I'm up to the challenge!

Yikes, that's a lot. I guess they don't read the installation instructions and install as required by code. (code requires all installations as per manufacturer installation instructions which are UL approved along with the appliance) So when I stated a 6 inch is required, that includes legally required.

Papa Bears are rare around here. Perhaps our heating load requires more of them so they just don't come up for sale often. I've found and installed a few for neighbors and friends and they are all happy with them. Some took up to 2 years to find and a trip into NJ or NY. That's finding them for 200 or so. I clean them up, paint and make baffle and only charge them the stove cost, materials and fuel. One of my neighbors is a contractor and not home much, so I would tend his old box stove every few hours. So getting him into a Papa relieves me of going over to tend his stove. That was two years ago and I only had to go over once when he was away overnight. His gas furnace hasn't ran since.

 

[coaly]

LOL! Very good info! When you say baffle added, is that what the manufacturer installed or did you have to do the modifications? I just had a thought about using this honey bear to heat my two story garage. Its all wood, I'm a bit afraid of attempting this.... Could this possibly heat this structure, blue building on the left in the picture?

That piece in the front that's bent, will it terribly affect operation and if I bend it back straight, should it be sealed?

Momma bear is the way to go or could I do the poppa bear with same performance?

What do you thing about the bio bricks and similar products?

Just bend it back straight.

Papa Bear is fine IF you have a way of getting the heat upstairs. It takes a way to rise over the stove, and cool upstairs and fallback down to be reheated. Preferably down steps at the other end of basement away from stove. not all floor plans are conducive to good circulation. 1000 sf downstairs with a Papa is a sauna, not a basement. My neighbor here in NEPA has his Papa in an uninsulated basement about 1400 sf under the well insulated 1400 sf house that heats both up and down. He's a mason by trade and refuses to line his 8 inch masonry chimney with a 6 inch liner to make it even more efficient. So he cleans it a couple times a season and goes through 10 cords or more. We go through entire months below freezing, so depending on insulation and your climate, that may still be too much for your entire home if it's 1000 sf down and 1000 sf up. Papa was rated for 2000 sf (or up to 2250 in some literature) with 8 foot ceiling using Seattle Washington climate. This was when 2 X 4 construction, single pane windows with R-11 was common.

That would heat that building fine. Go to Home Depot and look at Dura-Vent Chimney kits. Cheaper "Through the Roof" and on sale right now reduced from $199 to $159 ! That is with no insulated chimney pipe sections. But these kits and parts are seasonal items not available at all stores year round.
Lowe's sells Selkirk which is a "pack" chimney. They are stainless inside and out. Double wall with dense heavy insulation between the walls. A little more expensive, but slimmer outside dimension. 6 inside, 8 out. The Dura-PLus at Home Depot has an inner wall wrapped with insulation, then second wall inside a third outer wall. They are larger diameter outside, but both are rated the same temps and just as safe as the other installed properly. Follow the directions to the T and it's really not difficult.

Fisher Stoves are old school and I go by the manuals. No more, no less. They all state (yours on page 1) USE ONLY SOLID WOOD FUEL IN THIS STOVE. They were actually designed with soft woods in Oregon in mind, but I've only burned hard woods.

The baffle I was referring to is added to a single door stove. The "Smoke Shelf Baffle" was tested and used in later model double door stoves. It was Fishers way of reducing smoke for stricter particulate laws. Your Honey Bear already should have a different type baffle plate under the exhaust outlet. It is mentioned and pictured in the thread link below. I found a way to make and add one to any single door easily, and many have made them for older double door stoves that were never equipped.
Information can be found here;
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...d-fisher-more-heat-less-smoke-under-25.74710/

 

[chuckmunch]

Yikes, that's a lot. I guess they don't read the installation instructions and install as required by code. (code requires all installations as per manufacturer installation instructions which are UL approved along with the appliance) So when I stated a 6 inch is required, that includes legally required.

Papa Bears are rare around here. Perhaps our heating load requires more of them so they just don't come up for sale often. I've found and installed a few for neighbors and friends and they are all happy with them. Some took up to 2 years to find and a trip into NJ or NY. That's finding them for 200 or so. I clean them up, paint and make baffle and only charge them the stove cost, materials and fuel. One of my neighbors is a contractor and not home much, so I would tend his old box stove every few hours. So getting him into a Papa relieves me of going over to tend his stove. That was two years ago and I only had to go over once when he was away overnight. His gas furnace hasn't ran since.

Last post for today. I'm convinced I need to go with the mamma bear (will this heat both levels?) over the papa bear. The following links look like a mamma bear that I saw posted on another site, but one listing says papa. Can they be mistaken?






(broken link removed to http://baltimore.craigslist.org/app/5406323770.html)

(broken link removed to http://easternshore.craigslist.org/hsh/5413419671.html)

 

[coaly]

Last post for today. I'm convinced I need to go with the mamma bear (will this heat both levels?) over the papa bear. The following links look like a mamma bear that I saw posted on another site, but one listing says papa. Can they be mistaken?






(broken link removed to http://baltimore.craigslist.org/app/5406323770.html)

(broken link removed to http://easternshore.craigslist.org/hsh/5413419671.html)

They are both Papa Bears.
The second one used my copyrighted description from the first post in this thread.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/fisher-papa-mama-and-baby-bear-details-bear-series.86736/

I see that all the time and it's really funny when they use the description of the wrong stove for what they have! Like using the Grandpa description with two doors and 8 inch outlet when they have a Papa Bear.

With no description, you have to know what to look for in a front door picture. They both use the same door, but Papa is wider. Notice the front plate that shows on each side of door. A Mama will have the side angle iron very close to door with little to no front plate showing along door. Mama pictured below;



Mama was rated for 1500 sf, Papa 2000 sf. This again was in Seattle Washington with normal insulation at the time.
I don't know your total heating area and floor plan for circulation, so it's difficult to judge which stove you need without knowing a lot more details. (insulation, windows, basement insulation or finished walls) Another consideration is length of burn time. You can put more in a Papa if you need to reload after 10 or 12 hours. A Mama needs attention after 8.

 

[chuckmunch]

Hey guys quick question. (broken link removed to http://charlottesville.craigslist.org/for/5470718460.html)mamma bear shows hinges opposite the one provided in your picture, were they offered in both configurations or was this a mod?

Also, what kind of fisher is (broken link removed to http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/for/5470904000.html)? Just curious. Thanks!

 

[chuckmunch]

They are both Papa Bears.
The second one used my copyrighted description from the first post in this thread.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/fisher-papa-mama-and-baby-bear-details-bear-series.86736/

I see that all the time and it's really funny when they use the description of the wrong stove for what they have! Like using the Grandpa description with two doors and 8 inch outlet when they have a Papa Bear.

With no description, you have to know what to look for in a front door picture. They both use the same door, but Papa is wider. Notice the front plate that shows on each side of door. A Mama will have the side angle iron very close to door with little to no front plate showing along door. Mama pictured below;

View attachment 174622

Mama was rated for 1500 sf, Papa 2000 sf. This again was in Seattle Washington with normal insulation at the time.
I don't know your total heating area and floor plan for circulation, so it's difficult to judge which stove you need without knowing a lot more details. (insulation, windows, basement insulation or finished walls) Another consideration is length of burn time. You can put more in a Papa if you need to reload after 10 or 12 hours. A Mama needs attention after 8.

On this, I have about 1200sq ft upstairs and 1000 down. Open stairway in the middle of the home with no doors that separate. Basement is being finished and the windows are from 1961 when the home was built, although I will replace them soon. Been busy doing loads of renovations to this property, can't afford the contractor so I'm getting dirty

 

[coaly]

Hey guys quick question. (broken link removed to http://charlottesville.craigslist.org/for/5470718460.html)mamma bear shows hinges opposite the one provided in your picture, were they offered in both configurations or was this a mod?

Also, what kind of fisher is (broken link removed to http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/for/5470904000.html)? Just curious. Thanks!

Yes, they were available with left or right hand doors. Originally they had a side vent for placing on a hearth with a block off plate. Sideways on the hearth takes up less space into the room. So a left or right side vented stove worked best with the door that would swing towards the hearth face for easy loading. The Fisher Stove Story has a lefty on the cover.

Coal Bear. Search those words in the search box at top right for threads with pictures and details. There is a Brochure for them in the Brochure thread as well.

I would ask the seller if it has original grates and cast iron liners in good shape since few to none are in good shape inside.

 

[coaly]

On this, I have about 1200sq ft upstairs and 1000 down. Open stairway in the middle of the home with no doors that separate. Basement is being finished and the windows are from 1961 when the home was built, although I will replace them soon. Been busy doing loads of renovations to this property, can't afford the contractor so I'm getting dirty

With the added info, If that heating area was here AND if you do in fact have a 7 inch chimney flue, I would go with a Papa. The extended burn times are a big plus. Heat loss is a big factor requiring 1/3 more with no insulation on basement walls. When all your upgrades are done, you're back to the BTU range of a Mama. Another factor is if this is going to be the primary or become the only heat source. Then I would lean towards Papa. I don't think the difference is going to drive you out, but you need return air to get circulation upstairs. The floor plan has a lot to do with circulation and the temp difference between floors. It is easier to get heat to rise near the stove, and fall down a larger stairway at the opposite end of house. If the stairway is close to stove, you may need a fan in a floor vent helping the heavy cooler air drop back down to be reheated. Vents now between floors require fire damper. That's the reason so many feel they have too much heat in the stove room. You have to always move air in the direction it flows by gravity and don't fight normal circulation. Then a Papa won't overheat the basement.