I have a Fisher wood stove that I need to install. I have no paperwork or specification guide on installation. For the city to approve this I need a manual or installation specification sheet. Anyone know where I can get this? There is no model number on it, however I am told there was a Papa Bear, Mama Bear, etc. I believe this is the big one. Any help would be appreciated.
Fisher wood stove
- Thread starter boydp
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Boyd, you're probably not going to like to hear this, but this is not a good stove to run in an urban environment. The old Fishers were good strong stoves, but not very clean burning. There was a thread started about a week ago that is worth reading:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/3151/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/3151/
- Jul 19, 2006
- 306
boydp said:
Boyd,
Finding a manual for a Fisher will be like finding hair on a frog. Sorry. When I bought my Grandmother (MaMa) in `80 the salesman said there wasn't a manual & sold me "The Wood Burners Encyclopedia", by Jay Shelton, instructing me to follow it to a "T".
Also, as BeGreen has noted, "Fisher" is a dirty word in cities because it is a pre EPA heater. But if your city does not have exclusionary rules regarding pre-EPA heaters, than you can burn a Fisher relatively clean so that your neighbors won't report you. (See my post to Karen in the thread that BeGreen gave you)
Your code inspector, if you have one, & insurance agent are going to be the ones that you have to please. Check with the insurance agent first since some will not even insure a Fisher, that is what I'm told.
If you decide to go forward with the Fisher & need further help, feel free to pm me.
Dave
Dave, thanks for chiming in. It's great to have a seasoned old stove burner on board to help folks.
- Jul 19, 2006
- 306
BeGreen,
Thanks, always glad to help the family of Fisher Bears.
Been busy as a termite, but have not forgot about you. Been reading the links that you gave, plus the links that your links linked, & such makes for a very long reading, especially government links. Anyone having insomnia? Just read 5 or more pages of a government report & your sleep disorder is history. Just be sure to put down pillows on either side of your chair for a safe landing before reading.
Not to hijack Boyd’s thread, but since it is pertinent to his situation about emissions thought he might like to see this. The following EPA Phase 2 (EPA p2) heater article is an eye opening government admission about a suppressed fact.
The following is taken from page 3 of 4 at
http://burningissues.org/bi/pdfs/gov.pdf#search="fisher wood heater"
<snip>
"The particulate emissions for stoves in Portland homes were, on average, higher than the stoves in Klamath Falls homes. This result is consistent with the average higher fuel moisture content & burn rate characteristics of the Portland portion of the study as compared with the Klamath Falls portion of the study.
The particulate emission factors for the certified phase 2 stoves evaluated in this study appear to have become higher with use, but after about 7 years, on average, the certified phase 2 stoves still have lower emissions than uncertified conventional stoves (Table 1)."
<snip>
Note that in Table 1 the “conventional“ heaters were only twice as dirty as the EPA p2 heaters, not 10 times as is to often claimed. And that the government failed to identify make & model of the “conventional” heaters. As you well know there is a difference between conventional heaters. A Franklin is not a Fisher peer in performance.
And when a Franklin bounces off a pickup the litter crew merely picks up the pieces. But when a Fisher comes off the driver is in serious trouble with “Homeland Security”, they have just created a tank trap on a public access road & serious weight lifters are needed to extract the heater. But the Fisher would merely require some sandpapering & a can of high temp black paint to be ready to heat again. Like a welder once said; “A 5/16” steel heater is definitely heavy metal!” :coolsmile:
Yes, things would have been better for the EPA p2 units had the owners maintained their heaters, but that makes my point. In real life there is only a modest improvement in EPA p2 heater emissions over "conventional" heaters.
And the following article goes to what I have stated earlier, the drier the wood the better. By using dry wood a “conventional” wood heater becomes a large pellet burning machine. Yes, the efficiency of a conventional will not be as high as a pellet, but then the pellet owner pays for such in electricity, maintenance costs, I.e. fan & auger motors, baffles, ups standby for power failure, etc. The Fisher owner merely gets the heater into the run temp & enjoys. If the power goes out, no problem.
(broken link removed to http://www.motherearthnews.com/Homesteading_and_Self_Reliance/1992_December_January/Mother_s_1993_Wood_and_Coal_Stove_Advisory)
Thus any wood heater’s operation has 3 basic requirements for a successful operation. The moisture content (mc) of the wood, preferably below 10%, the fire-up & run temp‘s. If an inexperience operator will strictly observe those parameters then I dare state that their heater’s performance will exceed that of an experienced operator, whose Liberty Lopi is fed wood with a 20% mc & has no thermometer. Si?
Boyd, Karen, et al, some more helpful articles that make my point about mc in wood.
(broken link removed to http://www.motherearthnews.com/Homesteading_and_Self_Reliance/1992_December_January/Mother_s_1993_Wood_and_Coal_Stove_Advisory)
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/howetwd.htm)
Dave
Thanks, always glad to help the family of Fisher Bears.
Been busy as a termite, but have not forgot about you. Been reading the links that you gave, plus the links that your links linked, & such makes for a very long reading, especially government links. Anyone having insomnia? Just read 5 or more pages of a government report & your sleep disorder is history. Just be sure to put down pillows on either side of your chair for a safe landing before reading.
Not to hijack Boyd’s thread, but since it is pertinent to his situation about emissions thought he might like to see this. The following EPA Phase 2 (EPA p2) heater article is an eye opening government admission about a suppressed fact.
The following is taken from page 3 of 4 at
http://burningissues.org/bi/pdfs/gov.pdf#search="fisher wood heater"
<snip>
"The particulate emissions for stoves in Portland homes were, on average, higher than the stoves in Klamath Falls homes. This result is consistent with the average higher fuel moisture content & burn rate characteristics of the Portland portion of the study as compared with the Klamath Falls portion of the study.
The particulate emission factors for the certified phase 2 stoves evaluated in this study appear to have become higher with use, but after about 7 years, on average, the certified phase 2 stoves still have lower emissions than uncertified conventional stoves (Table 1)."
<snip>
Note that in Table 1 the “conventional“ heaters were only twice as dirty as the EPA p2 heaters, not 10 times as is to often claimed. And that the government failed to identify make & model of the “conventional” heaters. As you well know there is a difference between conventional heaters. A Franklin is not a Fisher peer in performance.
And when a Franklin bounces off a pickup the litter crew merely picks up the pieces. But when a Fisher comes off the driver is in serious trouble with “Homeland Security”, they have just created a tank trap on a public access road & serious weight lifters are needed to extract the heater. But the Fisher would merely require some sandpapering & a can of high temp black paint to be ready to heat again. Like a welder once said; “A 5/16” steel heater is definitely heavy metal!” :coolsmile:
Yes, things would have been better for the EPA p2 units had the owners maintained their heaters, but that makes my point. In real life there is only a modest improvement in EPA p2 heater emissions over "conventional" heaters.
And the following article goes to what I have stated earlier, the drier the wood the better. By using dry wood a “conventional” wood heater becomes a large pellet burning machine. Yes, the efficiency of a conventional will not be as high as a pellet, but then the pellet owner pays for such in electricity, maintenance costs, I.e. fan & auger motors, baffles, ups standby for power failure, etc. The Fisher owner merely gets the heater into the run temp & enjoys. If the power goes out, no problem.
(broken link removed to http://www.motherearthnews.com/Homesteading_and_Self_Reliance/1992_December_January/Mother_s_1993_Wood_and_Coal_Stove_Advisory)
Thus any wood heater’s operation has 3 basic requirements for a successful operation. The moisture content (mc) of the wood, preferably below 10%, the fire-up & run temp‘s. If an inexperience operator will strictly observe those parameters then I dare state that their heater’s performance will exceed that of an experienced operator, whose Liberty Lopi is fed wood with a 20% mc & has no thermometer. Si?
Boyd, Karen, et al, some more helpful articles that make my point about mc in wood.
(broken link removed to http://www.motherearthnews.com/Homesteading_and_Self_Reliance/1992_December_January/Mother_s_1993_Wood_and_Coal_Stove_Advisory)
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/howetwd.htm)
Dave
My house had a Grandma Bear when we bought it. the smoke it would billow out the stack made my house look like a steel mill. Creosote galore and very short burn times. My neighbor has a Quad 4300, and there is rarely visible smoke coming out of the chimney. If you can afford it, dump the Fisher and get a new stove.
- Jul 19, 2006
- 306
richg,
Smoke, except at startup or refueling, is proof that the fuel is too wet, resinous, or being burned incorrectly. If the wood is less than 10% moisture content (mc), not resinous, then all the operator needs to know is the correct fire-up & run temp. The Condar thermometer allows me to correctly adjust the air required for a correct temperature burn.
I take exception to the 5th rule because the article was written in `81, long before pellet heaters were introduced. Pellets have @ 10% mc. So in rule # 5, where a 20-25% mc for wood is cited as acceptable, he had not seen a pellet heater operation. As time goes by the observant wood burner will realize that there are real advantages in burning wood that is at or below 10% mc. (Bolden emphasis is mine)
<snip>
OPERATOR TECHNIQUES FOR CUTTING EMISSIONS
(broken link removed to http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature_and_Environment/1981_November_December/Woodstove_Smoke)
<snip>
"The five rules which we're about to offer are mostly matters of common sense. But in order to understand why they make sense, you'll need to know a little about how wood burns. The combustion process has been theoretically divided into three phases: evaporation, where the moisture in the wood is removed . . . pyrolysis, the release of volatile gases trapped in the fuel's structure . . . and charring, during which the material's carbon (in the form of charcoal) is burned. However, as systematic and neat as this outline sounds, it is complicated somewhat by the fact that the different stages almost always overlap. Only at the very beginning and end of a burning cycle (early evaporation and final charring, respectively) are the distinctions clear."
FIVE WAYS TO CLEAR THE AIR
Rule 1: Use the largest-diameter logs that will burn effectively. Big pieces of wood have less surface area per unit of volume . . . which prevents them from releasing volatiles too rapidly. This has been recognized as the single most effective technique for reducing emissions!
Rule 2: Build as small a fire as is practical. A stuffed firebox often leads to areas of pyrolysis and/or charring that can't be reached by an adequate air it supply. Therefore, use as few of the large pieces of wood as you can while producing inadequate heat.
Rule 3: Keep the fire hot. Position the logs in your stove so that air can move through the fire zone, and be sure there's sufficient draft opening. Since you're already trying to make the fire as small as possible, you can maintain high temperatures inside the stove without overheating your home.
Rule 4: Don't increase or decrease the draft setting drastically. Pyrolysis continues for some time after the air supply has been cut back . . . so slamming the damper shut can send much of your hard-won fuel up the chimney. On the other hand, rapid opening of the damper can carry the pyrolytic products away from the fire too quickly . . . especially if there's a significant wind—induced draft.
Rule 5: Avoid excessively wet, or dry, wood. Logs that are too dry pyrolyze very quickly, overloading the combustion zone with volatile gases . . . while very moist timbers can inhibit effective combustion by absorbing heat for evaporation. Standard air-dried soft or hard firewood (with about 20 to 25% moisture content) seems to be the cleanest-burning fuel.
Naturally, in order to observe these five rules, some stove owners will have to change their habits slightly. Heaters will require loading more frequently than was the case during the era of the all-night burn. But, on the positive side, many of us won't have to split logs as thoroughly as we have done. And we must emphasize that following the procedures listed above will not only cut down the pollutants coming from your woodstove . . . it'll also help to keep your stovepipe cleaner and allow you to obtain more heat from a given amount of wood."
<snip>
Have a good one,
Dave
Smoke, except at startup or refueling, is proof that the fuel is too wet, resinous, or being burned incorrectly. If the wood is less than 10% moisture content (mc), not resinous, then all the operator needs to know is the correct fire-up & run temp. The Condar thermometer allows me to correctly adjust the air required for a correct temperature burn.
I take exception to the 5th rule because the article was written in `81, long before pellet heaters were introduced. Pellets have @ 10% mc. So in rule # 5, where a 20-25% mc for wood is cited as acceptable, he had not seen a pellet heater operation. As time goes by the observant wood burner will realize that there are real advantages in burning wood that is at or below 10% mc. (Bolden emphasis is mine)
<snip>
OPERATOR TECHNIQUES FOR CUTTING EMISSIONS
(broken link removed to http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature_and_Environment/1981_November_December/Woodstove_Smoke)
<snip>
"The five rules which we're about to offer are mostly matters of common sense. But in order to understand why they make sense, you'll need to know a little about how wood burns. The combustion process has been theoretically divided into three phases: evaporation, where the moisture in the wood is removed . . . pyrolysis, the release of volatile gases trapped in the fuel's structure . . . and charring, during which the material's carbon (in the form of charcoal) is burned. However, as systematic and neat as this outline sounds, it is complicated somewhat by the fact that the different stages almost always overlap. Only at the very beginning and end of a burning cycle (early evaporation and final charring, respectively) are the distinctions clear."
FIVE WAYS TO CLEAR THE AIR
Rule 1: Use the largest-diameter logs that will burn effectively. Big pieces of wood have less surface area per unit of volume . . . which prevents them from releasing volatiles too rapidly. This has been recognized as the single most effective technique for reducing emissions!
Rule 2: Build as small a fire as is practical. A stuffed firebox often leads to areas of pyrolysis and/or charring that can't be reached by an adequate air it supply. Therefore, use as few of the large pieces of wood as you can while producing inadequate heat.
Rule 3: Keep the fire hot. Position the logs in your stove so that air can move through the fire zone, and be sure there's sufficient draft opening. Since you're already trying to make the fire as small as possible, you can maintain high temperatures inside the stove without overheating your home.
Rule 4: Don't increase or decrease the draft setting drastically. Pyrolysis continues for some time after the air supply has been cut back . . . so slamming the damper shut can send much of your hard-won fuel up the chimney. On the other hand, rapid opening of the damper can carry the pyrolytic products away from the fire too quickly . . . especially if there's a significant wind—induced draft.
Rule 5: Avoid excessively wet, or dry, wood. Logs that are too dry pyrolyze very quickly, overloading the combustion zone with volatile gases . . . while very moist timbers can inhibit effective combustion by absorbing heat for evaporation. Standard air-dried soft or hard firewood (with about 20 to 25% moisture content) seems to be the cleanest-burning fuel.
Naturally, in order to observe these five rules, some stove owners will have to change their habits slightly. Heaters will require loading more frequently than was the case during the era of the all-night burn. But, on the positive side, many of us won't have to split logs as thoroughly as we have done. And we must emphasize that following the procedures listed above will not only cut down the pollutants coming from your woodstove . . . it'll also help to keep your stovepipe cleaner and allow you to obtain more heat from a given amount of wood."
<snip>
Have a good one,
Dave
- Jul 19, 2006
- 306
Apparently Frogs do have Hair :lol:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Old-Stock-F...ryZ20598QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Dave
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Old-Stock-F...ryZ20598QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Dave
I realize that this is an old thread, but I have a Fisher Stove manual in PDF form if anyone wants it.
I would attach it here, but the max size is 350kb and the PDF is 666kb. Which I guess is appropriate, because a Fisher can burn hot as... Well, you know.
Send an e-mail to escher-at-columbus-dot-rr-dot-com, and I'll send you back a copy.
Oh and, hi...
I stumbled on this thread while looking for something else and this is my first post.
I would attach it here, but the max size is 350kb and the PDF is 666kb. Which I guess is appropriate, because a Fisher can burn hot as... Well, you know.
Send an e-mail to escher-at-columbus-dot-rr-dot-com, and I'll send you back a copy.
Oh and, hi...
I stumbled on this thread while looking for something else and this is my first post.
The fisher manual in on the wiki page in PDF form. I think it is for the MaMa bear.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/File:fischermanual.pdf/
If anyone has a different manual than that one, I would love a PDF - which I will put on the same wiki article.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/File:fischermanual.pdf/
If anyone has a different manual than that one, I would love a PDF - which I will put on the same wiki article.
Hi Boyd,
I am a former Former PaPa Bear Owner, and if the your stove is long and narrow, but high with the step up and has two air control knobs on the single door, and the silver bear paws for feet than you probably have the Fisher PaPa Bear.
This stove throws fantastic heat and will take up to 2' logs.
As far as being enviormentally friendly, their is no secondary burn tubes nor are their any catalytic combustors, so obviously they are not going to be efficent when it comes to emissions.
As far as smoke and creosote goes, I believe alot depends how the stove is burned and the type and quality of wood used. Again, the new stoves will be more efficent in these areas also.
One thing is for sure, you will NEVER wear it out. It is built like a tank!
Now that I am thinking about it and the topic of smoke and emissions was brought up on these old Fisher Stoves, how are these outdoor wood furnaces doing in these departments?
Where I live which is a rural area, I have read several articles in the local newspaper were towns and citys are banning or drafting ordinances puting restrictions on these outdoor furnaces and some banning them all together because of the smoke and smell.
John
I am a former Former PaPa Bear Owner, and if the your stove is long and narrow, but high with the step up and has two air control knobs on the single door, and the silver bear paws for feet than you probably have the Fisher PaPa Bear.
This stove throws fantastic heat and will take up to 2' logs.
As far as being enviormentally friendly, their is no secondary burn tubes nor are their any catalytic combustors, so obviously they are not going to be efficent when it comes to emissions.
As far as smoke and creosote goes, I believe alot depends how the stove is burned and the type and quality of wood used. Again, the new stoves will be more efficent in these areas also.
One thing is for sure, you will NEVER wear it out. It is built like a tank!
Now that I am thinking about it and the topic of smoke and emissions was brought up on these old Fisher Stoves, how are these outdoor wood furnaces doing in these departments?
Where I live which is a rural area, I have read several articles in the local newspaper were towns and citys are banning or drafting ordinances puting restrictions on these outdoor furnaces and some banning them all together because of the smoke and smell.
John
I have a grandma bear in the shop and yes it does heat like mad dont have much of a smoke issue it burns pretty clean for an old stove. But it eats wood in a big hurry. Id say a day in the shop costs me 2 days of wood in the Quad in the house
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