general overall attitude towards pellet stoves these days

[ChandlerR]

This is an interesting thread. As much as I love the cost savings with the pellet stove and the warmth it give us in (so far) all conditions, I just can't recommend them for everyone. A good friend of ours is buying a nice 200 year old house with two fireplaces. The house has been insulated with new windows and has a brand new oil fired forced hot air heat. She has been to our house many times and just marvels at how warm our house is. I told her this year I will approach two tons because of the cold and when we told her that our heating costs will be under $600 she is all excited to install a pellet stove in her house.
The other night we spent an hour with her explaining the ins and outs of stove ownership and she was amazed at the amount of work to properly operate and care for a stove. She said she used to heat with wood and had no problems and I told her that a pellet stove is more work. Maybe not as hard, but more frequent. She asked if there was such a thing as a maintenance free stove and we told her no. I think that until one is made that is as maintenance free as your gas or oil furnace, they will remain what they are, a space heater that requires constant attention.
I told her that if she bought one, she needs to buy from a reputable dealer who knows the product and can service it properly. I think the industry is improving every year and their popularity will continue to grow. Good dealers and service people will be rewarded and poor ones will go by the wayside. I wish I knew the answer to those constant frustrating calls. I would not want to be on the receiving end of them all day, every day. The only answer I can think of costs a lot of money...a well trained and personable service tech to answer the phones...oh, with the patience of a saint and a presence of Paul Harvey.

Maybe that could be a new cottage industry. A company the stove guys could hire to answer calls and provide good, sound assistance.....or they can just join this Forum!

 

[Ctcarl]

Wow lots if good reads here. I just wanted to add that I bought this house 5 years ago . Split level 1800sq ft. When I first moved in I was going through 200 gallons a months of oil.it was so crazy I payed my oil guy to look at my furnace to see if it was running correctly. It was so for the first few years was keeping it low getting in fights with the wife over how cold it was.with my first pellet stove it was used kept breaking down and didn't give great heat. Now with my harman I am able to keep going and keep my thermostat at 56 and it reads 64 to 67.Also the living room and two upstairs are nice and toasty. Yes there are Cold spots and one big room that I keep the door closed all winter that's a ice box . So knock on wood this winter I may make it with only getting 150 gallons. If it goes that way that's a huge savings compared to 200 gallons a month.also I feel for the rant earlier.

 

[Lake Girl]

Burn 2 bags of pellets and remove 1/4 bag of ashes next morning. Firepot full of clinckers.

The technology needs to be improved:
- automatic cleaning of fire pot
- combustion control via flame temperature sensor.

FYI: I have natural gas and an hydronic fireplace.
Even a top notch pellet boiler is difficult to justify when you have NG.

You should be selling NG appliances .... But what about the rest of us who have only electric or oil options? Pellet stoves/boilers fill that niche and keeps your business going. The technology won't be improved if there is no demand in the first place... Have to start somewhere

2 bags of pellets = 1/4 bag of ashes ... Hello Pinocchio...

At least with pellets, they are from a renewable resource. Fracking to get natural gas stores ... at what environmental cost (huge water table implications in both the process and the local aquifer due to chemical additives) and what happens when they are depleted?

Just my thoughts...

 

[joescho]

yeah, your gas-a-ma-blender stove is still a stove that most people cannot wrap their minds around how to use properly so the efficiency that thing is capable of diminishes by 30% or more pretty quick. I saw that stove when it was Dell-Point and when it was the Europa 75. No big changes...most of the people who have them have absolutely no idea cause it came with their house when the bought it...no parts for it. No service for it. Claude cannot even figure out a way to accept PayPal without it taking 15 phone calls and 3 weeks of back and forth....just sayin.

oh, and those Italian jobbers...most of them are made in China, imported to Italy then marked up huge to sell to us. Seriously though...in this thread, I may just say something bad about every single manufacturer. Thread of the pissed off reviews! Anyone care to have me rant some more?

Dude you sound like a man that needs a little vacation.

 

[Bioburner]

Back here in MN its called shack nuts. Don't know how those in far darker colder climates can take it. Contemplating the last demise of an AES Countryside. Should I get a permit or not?

 

[pelletdude]

You should be selling NG appliances .... But what about the rest of us who have only electric or oil options? Pellet stoves/boilers fill that niche and keeps your business going. The technology won't be improved if there is no demand in the first place... Have to start somewhere

2 bags of pellets = 1/4 bag of ashes ... Hello Pinocchio...

At least with pellets, they are from a renewable resource. Fracking to get natural gas stores ... at what environmental cost (huge water table implications in both the process and the local aquifer due to chemical additives) and what happens when they are depleted?

Just my thoughts...

Must be some really poor pellets if you get a 1/4 of a bag of ash. Two bags of good fuel and I get 16OZ's ...

 

[Lake Girl]

Must be some really poor pellets if you get a 1/4 of a bag of ash. Two bags of good fuel and I get 16OZ's ...

The "Hello Pinocchio" was my way of pointing out PassionforFire&Water's mistruth - no way do I get 1/4 bag ash from two bags. Not even sure I get 16oz

 

[St_Earl]

i wonder how many btus are in a little wooden boy.

 

[railfanron]

Heck a quarter bag of ashes is real close to a ton of pellets in my stove. My ash box is about 9" x 12" x 12" deep and it has about an inch of ash in it for 8 bags of pellets. This is about the same for the 4 different kinds of pellets I've tried this year.
Ron

 

[rona]

Bixby's do that but unfortunately the owner screwed everyone but himself!

As the owner of a home heated by Bixbys I can say they were thinking out of the box when they were designed. Way ahead of the herd and of course the price showed that. Personally I would never pay 4,000.00 for a stove but when I could get one for 1700 on E-Bay I bought one and basically through trial and error, reading the manual I learned how they work and why people spent that 4,000.00 for one.
There is upkeep to any stove and things wear out on all of them but it should be the owners responsibility to learn everything they can so they can fix it themselves. If you can find a good dealer who will help you after the sale you will be a step up from a lot of people. Sad to say once the money changes hands there seems to be a change in personality's.
There is also dealer burnout where the dealer has had to listen to one to many dumb people who should have bought a electric heater.
Anyone who thinks having the EPA stick their nose in pellet stoves will turn out good should look at the Health Care fiasco. Or look at the cars on the road today bragging about over 30mpg. Little beer cans on wheels. at 25-30,000.00.

 

[tjnamtiw]

As the owner of a home heated by Bixbys I can say they were thinking out of the box when they were designed. Way ahead of the herd and of course the price showed that. Personally I would never pay 4,000.00 for a stove but when I could get one for 1700 on E-Bay I bought one and basically through trial and error, reading the manual I learned how they work and why people spent that 4,000.00 for one.
There is upkeep to any stove and things wear out on all of them but it should be the owners responsibility to learn everything they can so they can fix it themselves. If you can find a good dealer who will help you after the sale you will be a step up from a lot of people. Sad to say once the money changes hands there seems to be a change in personality's.
There is also dealer burnout where the dealer has had to listen to one to many dumb people who should have bought a electric heater.
Anyone who thinks having the EPA stick their nose in pellet stoves will turn out good should look at the Health Care fiasco. AMEN. Even if you're lucky enought o get a subsidy because you are poor, how are you going to afford the $6000 deductible before you get anything back??? Who dreamed this one up??? Or look at the cars on the road today bragging about over 30mpg AMEN!. Little beer cans on wheels. at 25-30,000.00 and much more!!.

 

[becasunshine]

You know, this just occurred to me- in our area, at least, winter arrived early and deepened quickly and remarkably. It occurs to me that people are being stressed with heating needs more so than we've been for several years, perhaps even for a few decades. We had a remarkable cold snap at the end of winter a few years ago- but it was at the end of February and in March, so by default it was self-limiting.

Winter began here in November and it's been normal winter to very cold winter. It's showing no sign of letting up.

Perhaps people really are backed into a corner with both heating needs and heating costs. Perhaps they are using their pellet stoves more regularly, thus revealing issues with pellet stoves that previously sat idle or infrequently used. Perhaps they really cannot afford another oil fill, or another propane fill, and going without the pellet stove is putting them in a panic. Panic comes out as anger and/or frustration at whomever is standing in front of them, or at the person that they perceive could get them out of this jam.

In the meantime, pellet stoves are a niche market, and there are even fewer people who know how to troubleshoot them, work on them, or carry the replacement parts for them- and those people are apparently getting worn out by our current winter as well.

 

[john193]

Reading through the comments I'm a bit surprised in the number of people who have expressed a lack of support from their dealers or service technicians. This has not been my story at all. My dealer is a 30 min ride from me, they stock all the common parts and will even ship them to your house (within reason).

Last year the auto clean arm on my MVAE got stuck and I couldn't get the thing to close the pot so we had to rely on our other sources of heat. As these things go, it occurred on the coldest day on a Sunday. I called the dealer and someone was at my house within 36 hours to look into the problem. In the interim, the service tech walked me through how to disconnect the arm and manually close the burn pot to start a fire. Being under warranty, the service call was free of charge (which may not seem like a big deal to some, but remember the manufacturer guarantees the stove, not the dealers time).

This is precisely why veteran stove owners here will tell you it is all about the dealer. Most of the conversation here is what stove should I get, or what pellet I should burn. It seems so few people vet their dealers, or think about the after sale process.

 

[hockeypuck]

I would not recommend anyone owning a pellet stove that could not do their own basic maintenance and stack cleaning. If I had to pay someone to come out and clean by stove and chimney every time it needed it... it would not make sense. Just saying... no offense to Scott. What I would do is call Scott if I tried for a number of days to diagnose a problem and could not figure it out.


Quick edit.. what Chandler said... x2.. they are not for everyone.

 

[hockeypuck]

You know, this just occurred to me- in our area, at least, winter arrived early and deepened quickly and remarkably. It occurs to me that people are being stressed with heating needs more so than we've been for several years, perhaps even for a few decades. We had a remarkable cold snap at the end of winter a few years ago- but it was at the end of February and in March, so by default it was self-limiting.

Winter began here in November and it's been normal winter to very cold winter. It's showing no sign of letting up.

Perhaps people really are backed into a corner with both heating needs and heating costs. Perhaps they are using their pellet stoves more regularly, thus revealing issues with pellet stoves that previously sat idle or infrequently used. Perhaps they really cannot afford another oil fill, or another propane fill, and going without the pellet stove is putting them in a panic. Panic comes out as anger and/or frustration at whomever is standing in front of them, or at the person that they perceive could get them out of this jam.

In the meantime, pellet stoves are a niche market, and there are even fewer people who know how to troubleshoot them, work on them, or carry the replacement parts for them- and those people are apparently getting worn out by our current winter as well.

Concerning being stressed.. I totally agree. When I had my Lennox act up on me earlier this year.. the first thing I thought about was how much money I was going to spend on oil.. Short term .. it was silly because I heat with my wood insert 70 percent of the main part of the house and the smaller portion (on its own FHW zone) that was heated by the pellet stove. Even on the coldest of cold nights it may have cost me $6 per day to keep it warm enough so we could function in that part of the house. I eventually fixed the Lennox but used it as an excuse to upgrade. I can only imagine if I viewed a pellet stove as my main reason for not being warm or blowing the budget on oil. Sometimes the fear is irrational (short term) but due to the less than stellar economy that we are all resetting to, heating expense is now becoming a major portion of our disposable income and weighs more heavily on the general population.. imho.

 

[Mt Bob]

My emoticon lacked any expression and slightly aggrivated. I'm tired. Some of you who may have their own biz...or any teacher with 23 kids can relate....how many questions can you field in a day, in an hour, in a minute, in a second...and every day, every hour ,every minute, every second its the same one over and over and over again. My pellet stove is doing this, or doing that or not doing this but it never did that and why is doing this or that but not this.....I go home everyday completely exhausted. Seriously man....what's wrong with people....? THEY ARE SPACE HEATERS not MIRACLE WORKERS and they ain't the answer to not using the TSTAT. "I aint got no other heat", "Everyday you can't get here is one more day I'm spending money I shouldn't be" Seriously, this is what I deal with every day times 200.

I'm failing the entire world and industry because I stayed home an extra 15 minutes to put my kid on the buss or go home early to plow the driveway so my wife could get out and go grocery shopping. Yes, I'm talking about you the guy who's 26 year old stove you bought on CL for $350 that stopped working this afternoon and it's going to be minus 200 degrees tonight and your kids are sleeping at you mothers because I'm the jerk.

Thanks guys! I feel better now!

Hang in there,Scott.I was thinking about starting a part time stove repair setup,but after what I see on this forum I might just go to the local stove shop and see if they need a part time person!

 

[Lake Girl]

There you go ... as long as you're OK with being potentially laid off for the summer?

 

[Bioburner]

Back here in MN its called shack nuts. Don't know how those in far darker colder climates can take it. Contemplating the last demise of an AES Countryside. Should I get a permit or not?

 

[Mt Bob]

Well I am a master ase auto and truck tech. and older.In this part of the state all us older mechanics have been laid off/let go,so they do not have to pay as much.Right now I stock beer for a living.Got a good offer to go to the bakken this summer,but do not want to go as I own my house,so looking for other options.

 

[heat seeker]

Back here in MN its called shack nuts. Don't know how those in far darker colder climates can take it.

Around here it's called Cabin Fever - and I have it already!

 

[chken]

The "Hello Pinocchio" was my way of pointing out PassionforFire&Water's mistruth - no way do I get 1/4 bag ash from two bags. Not even sure I get 16oz

I took it in reference to the hydronic pellet stoves. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit?

Anyhow, his is an interesting opinion since he sells Windhager BioWin pellet boilers that are highly automated, like the Kedels and Okefens. They are as close to a pellet appliance as I've read about. Isn't that where this discussion was headed? A lower maintenance appliance-like device that would then become mass-adopted?

 

[smwilliamson]

I took it in reference to the hydronic pellet stoves. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit?

Anyhow, his is an interesting opinion since he sells Windhager BioWin pellet boilers that are highly automated, like the Kedels and Okefens. They are as close to a pellet appliance as I've read about. Isn't that where this discussion was headed? A lower maintenance appliance-like device that would then become mass-adopted?

Yeas, I think that's where he was going. Mark is a good friend of mine. I have one of his BioWIN untis in my shop. Pellet stoves and inserts are NOT considered primary heating systems nor should they ever be. Many rely on them as such and thats where the problem lies and part of my frustration with people sometimes. iGet it. I kinda need that mentality so there are enough appliances out there to work on...over time, the adoption of these boilers will become more mainstream. Heck, wouldn't you like to fill your hopper 3 times a year and emply your ash bin 3 times....AND THATS IT.

IF you are heating your house with 2 or more high end pellet stoves, you have already spent more money on equipment than a boiler such as the BioWIN would cost.

 

[smwilliamson]

As the owner of a home heated by Bixbys I can say they were thinking out of the box when they were designed. Way ahead of the herd and of course the price showed that. Personally I would never pay 4,000.00 for a stove but when I could get one for 1700 on E-Bay I bought one and basically through trial and error, reading the manual I learned how they work and why people spent that 4,000.00 for one.
There is upkeep to any stove and things wear out on all of them but it should be the owners responsibility to learn everything they can so they can fix it themselves. If you can find a good dealer who will help you after the sale you will be a step up from a lot of people. Sad to say once the money changes hands there seems to be a change in personality's.
There is also dealer burnout where the dealer has had to listen to one to many dumb people who should have bought a electric heater.
Anyone who thinks having the EPA stick their nose in pellet stoves will turn out good should look at the Health Care fiasco. Or look at the cars on the road today bragging about over 30mpg. Little beer cans on wheels. at 25-30,000.00.

I wonder what his sleep number is? (he invented the sleep number bed too)

 

[smwilliamson]

I think your posting signature needs updating too.

Easy on Mark...he's foreign, it's in his nature to be misunderstood.

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

Easy on Mark...he's foreign, it's in his nature to be misunderstood.

Those dam Aliens ...