Geothermal Heat Pump easily beats oil today

[Jerry_NJ]

About 15 years ago I had a Waterfurnace Geothermal Heat Pump installed. At the time I was considering the cost trade-off with heating oil, and with oil selling for about $1 a gallon, oil heat was cheaper. In NJ electricity was selling for about 10 cents a KWH, very high out here in the NE. The HP has a COP of between 3 and 4, that is it produces 3 to 4 times as much heat per watt as does resistive heat.

In any case, the base numbers have changed with in the recent past, a cross-over point, oil was selling for $2 a gallon and electricity for about 11 cents per KWH. Now the HP electricity costs are lower than heating with oil. l now with oil near $4 and electricity at 15 cents a KWH, I find the HP energy cost is about 1/2 that of oil. Of course, I have a higher capital investment in the HP, cost about $12,000 to install 15 years ago. But, it has not required any repairs yet and the ground loop, I have two vertical 250' deep loops are supposed to be good for at least 40 years, more time than I have left.

Just looked at the numbers again, with a 78% wood heater burning mixed hardwood at $200 per cord, the cost per KBTU is about 1.4 cents, about the same as my HP with electricity at 15 cents per KWH. Now if I can get the cost of wood down, e.g., harvest more off my property and count my labor as a free workout, wood becomes the winner.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Lets face it . . . Electricity is 'the other shoe'. When it skyrockets - not if, WHEN - everything we now take for granted changes. The larger a house is, the less it will be worth. We will consider bloggin/surfin to be a luxury.

Last guy out, shut off the lights.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Indeed, but I expect to see the rest of the country that is using natural gas and oil to generate electricity to catch up with NJ before NJ really takes off. NJ is mostly nuclear and coal fired generation. I don't have the numbers, but it does "feel good" to turn on the light and think most of the cost/price is internal USA cash-flow, not more $ going off-shore and against the balance of trade.

I'm now working on getting a Quadrafire Fireplace insert installed. I have over 5 acres, with lots of trees, so in a "pinch" I can burn more wood for heat, the lights will still be electricity, but most are high efficiency bulbs...so as the price goes up so will my cost as I've already implemented conservation measures.

I see I've been promoted to "burning chunck" - I've been a member "fire starter" for only 4 days, must be near a record : <)

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Yes, 3-4, depending on loop temperature, are the COP numbers, and the unit (compressor) is 18 year old technology, I'd bet they are doing better today. The EER, air conditioning, runs around 20, again depending on loop temperature, not on air temperature. The loop does warm up (a/c) and cool down (heating) when working hard. That's where I think an efficient wood stove (insert) comes in, while using wood heat and the HP is off, the loop can equalize to "normal" ground water temperature, about 55 degrees here year round.

 

[Redox]

Hey, Jer! Have they deregulated up there in Jersey yet? Our electric rates just about doubled when BGE deregulated down here.

Ground source heat pumps are the most economical way to condition a space if first cost is discounted. My parents looked into a GSHP (I refuse to call it "Geothermal") when they were looking into building their new house a few years ago. They were quoted $30k for two units (with ductwork) plus wells. Since many older people have a problem adjusting to a heat pump, I urged them to look into a more conventional system. I think they really like the oil fired radiant much better. Where GSHPs really shine is in cooling, so I don't think they are going to be selling a lot of them in Maine. The first cost is a big chunk to bite off, even at current fuel prices. We shall see.

I have two conventional (air to air) heat pumps that I only run when the temperature is above freezing and I burn the wood stove when it gets colder out. It just added $100 to last months electric bill which isn't bad for having thermostatically controlled heat that you don't have to worry about. If I hadn't run out of well seasoned wood this year, it might be a different story. You sure don't get that nice warm glow off a heat pump, though.

At 15 years, your Waterfurnace is getting a bit old and you should probably start thinking about what to do when the compressor finally goes. A friend of mine was quoted $6k to replace a 2 ton GSHP, connected to existing ducts and utilities. Maybe you will be able to extend its life with the insert but by the time the eventual happens, you might be wondering if it is worth it. I know; I keep looking at my 90% gas furnace and keep wondering why I spent the money instead of buying the Quad sooner!

Chris

 

[mayhem]

15c/kwh? Wow...I might move to Jersey just for the cheap electricity. 18.9 here and slowly climbing.

(note: I'm not sure if you did, but my number includes delivery charges)

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Ok, you guys caught me, 15.7 cents, and I was feeling bad.... it was more like 11 cents last year, and maybe a bit more in the summer, rates are higher in the summer as air conditioning is considered essential (it is to my wife, at least in NJ) and heat is essential. Yes, I' quoting what I pay, total, for electricity. I think I did see something closer to 18 cents a few months back, I could go back and look, that must have been the summer rates for power over the survival level, the first few hundred KWH are lower cost.

I checked the Waterfurnace web site and their two speed, that's what I have, has a COP as high as 5. Part of the variable is what speed the compressor is running in, on low speed the system has the full heat exchange capacity, it just isn't working as hard, the water pump is running at half as is the forced air fan...makes it real nice, very quiet as well as efficient, that's where mine runs at or near 4. Still, all my economic analysis is run at a COP of 3, it still pays for itself. Mine is a single unit, my home is a bit under 2000 square feet and insulated for electric heat. I upgraded an air-to-air unit when that unit was about 7 years old. That was about 1992 or 93 and the total cost was approximately $12,000. It was a retrofit into the existing HP ducted house, not duct changes required. At the time NJ Central Power was trying to get people to reduce electric load, they gave me approximately $3,000, so the installation cost me more like $9,000. For rough estimates I'd say it has saved me about $1,000 per year over what I had, and maybe $300 a year over oil heat with an conventional A/C. Given the cost of the unit over installing a stand alone a/c, say $3000 and an oil furnace and tank (don't want a tank) at $3,000 all I had to save was $3,000 for the unit to pay for itself, it clearly has, and without any concern about CO2 or other hazards of oil. Natural Gas was not an option, my wife loves cooking on gas, so we'd be heating and cooking with it if it were available. Hope there's not oo many typos, the above makes sense to me as I type.

Redox, that handle reminds me, my just past Avatar was of some Red Fox Kits on my neighbor's property, looks to be four of them and I'd guess they are now about 4 week old, just able to walk and run short distances. My Avatar is now a Garter Snake, at the door to my garage, he/she is at least 2' long. I may return to the fox avatar, I like it better, but the problem with the avatar size is it is so small that anything with too much detail is lost, to my poor eyes at least.