Got a burned up skid steer

[Isaac Carlson]

I got a burned up skid steer (case 1838) from a friend today. He was going to scrap it, but I told him I needed something to move logs and he told me I could take it....with the provision that I keep tabs on my hours and parts and pay him the balance of what it would have cost before the fire, Scrap value is about $500 if you figure $200/ton. It has to get completely stripped down and rebuilt from the ground up. I don't mind the hours, but the cost of parts concern me a bit, since I don't know what it needs. The fire was under the seat. The battery burned up and started the oil/wood chips in the belly pan on fire. The hydraulics are burned and the wiring harness is gone. I opened a chain case and that part looks ok. One of the drive controls just flops and isn't connected to anything.

I don't know how hot it got, but it sounds like it burned for at least several hours, likely part of the night and into the day. I have heard horror stories about fixing these things after a fire and only know of one guy who fixed one but no details. The hydraulic pump was right in the fire, so it got cooked. I'm hoping to rebuild it with a new seal kit if the metal is ok. The tires are all good. The front of the engine is scorched, so it might need gaskets.

Am I nuts for wanting to fix it? It doesn't look too bad from the outside, but you can tell it got hot. He said the seat pan was hot enough to fry something on when he finally found it. (Lucky it didn't burn his shop down because it was inside)

It's now at my place, plopped in the driveway and no way to move it. We dragged it onto and off of the trailer.

Throw it at me, I need/want to know what to expect. I'm thinking most of the hydraulic oil burned in the fire, because the tank is empty and the hoses are just wire in places. Not sure about the fuel tank, but it pulled air when I pulled the cap.

 

[Jags]

A first good assessment should be done before I would even consider this. Take note of everything that will need to be replaced, fixed, purchased (like specialty tools, etc) and price all that junk out. It will give you a good picture of outright spend for the project. Then add 25% for the stuff you missed or weren't aware of.

 

[Gearhead660]

I am a fan of the Case skidsteers. Always keeping an eye out for a deal on one. Like the hand controls and the simple linkage design, minimal electronics. Biggest cost will be the tandem pump. Sounds like it was right in the heart of the fire. What engine does it have?

 

[Bad LP]

Sounds very expensive from my seat. Even with a donor machine for any decent parts.

Price out just a set of hoses and a harness to get a feel of what your in for. Who knows what your in for with the seals and pumps?

I’m not saying it’s not doable but tearing it all down and rebuilding it off the parts counter at MSRP doesn’t make a bit of sense.

 

[d.sebens]

Are you saying its worth 500 scrap but if you fix it you have to pay him the value of a running skid steer minus your expenses? I may of misunderstood. You will for sure be over $500 fixing it is just my opinion.

 

[peakbagger]

IMO, its probably too far gone, hydraulic hoses are expensive when they need to be custom made. Fun project but my guess is you will spend far more than the cost of a good used one.

 

[bholler]

I got a burned up skid steer (case 1838) from a friend today. He was going to scrap it, but I told him I needed something to move logs and he told me I could take it....with the provision that I keep tabs on my hours and parts and pay him the balance of what it would have cost before the fire, Scrap value is about $500 if you figure $200/ton. It has to get completely stripped down and rebuilt from the ground up. I don't mind the hours, but the cost of parts concern me a bit, since I don't know what it needs. The fire was under the seat. The battery burned up and started the oil/wood chips in the belly pan on fire. The hydraulics are burned and the wiring harness is gone. I opened a chain case and that part looks ok. One of the drive controls just flops and isn't connected to anything.

I don't know how hot it got, but it sounds like it burned for at least several hours, likely part of the night and into the day. I have heard horror stories about fixing these things after a fire and only know of one guy who fixed one but no details. The hydraulic pump was right in the fire, so it got cooked. I'm hoping to rebuild it with a new seal kit if the metal is ok. The tires are all good. The front of the engine is scorched, so it might need gaskets.

Am I nuts for wanting to fix it? It doesn't look too bad from the outside, but you can tell it got hot. He said the seat pan was hot enough to fry something on when he finally found it. (Lucky it didn't burn his shop down because it was inside)

It's now at my place, plopped in the driveway and no way to move it. We dragged it onto and off of the trailer.

Throw it at me, I need/want to know what to expect. I'm thinking most of the hydraulic oil burned in the fire, because the tank is empty and the hoses are just wire in places. Not sure about the fuel tank, but it pulled air when I pulled the cap.

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To me with what your friend wants it makes no sense. For you you get a project that may never be right no matter what or you might end up spending more than it's worth. Even if you do get it working properly you would have to pay the difference in value as if it wasn't burnt.

 

[MongoMongoson]

The thing about paying him the balance of what it would have cost before the fire makes no sense. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean. Let's say, pre-fire it was worth $5000. You take it, put a bunch of time, cursing, swearing, busted knuckles and $4000 into it. Are you saying you owe him $1000 when you are done with that?

If he is going to take scrap dollars for it, he should take scrap dollars for it. It shouldn't matter if the money is coming from the scrap yard or from you.

 

[GadDummit]

IMO, its probably too far gone, hydraulic hoses are expensive when they need to be custom made. Fun project but my guess is you will spend far more than the cost of a good used one.

NAPA will custom make your hydraulic hoses pretty cheap. You might have a hose shop locally that can do it, but in my area NAPA is cheaper by a mile.

 

[DodgyNomad]

Same question as above. I don't think I understand what your friend is asking for the unit. Can you explain further what you're supposed to pay him for it?

I'd want to pay him a flat price if I was starting a project like this, not repairing it on a sliding curve.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

The deal sounded like a sliding curve, but he said if I got 5k deep in labor, he would just pay me for my time and scrap the machine, which sounds like an excuse to pay me. He is super nice and probably thinks it is junk and just wants to help me make some cash, but I don't think he understands what I can do and how much I could use this machine. He is always getting surprised by what I do. I am going to talk with him and see if he would just take the $500 as a one time payment and call it done. This may be a project that spans a year or more, as I get time/money to work on it. It may also end up getting done in a short time if things go right. I don't mind working on it. And really, if it ends up running on a briggs and small pump, that's fine, as long as it works. I really think I can get it going. My biggest concern is the pump/drive motors since they were right in the fire. If they check out and only need seals, then all the better. He bought another machine the next day for around 10-12k, an 1840. He figures this one was worth about 10k before the fire.

A twin pump is 3-4k, plus hoses, drive motors, wiring, battery, cables, seals, fluids, and labor. I don't know if it needs a new pump or drive motors, but I can see the total easily going over 10k by the time labor is included. I normally charge 50/hr for simple mechanic work, but this kind of work would be 100/hr. I don't do stuff half way, so there would be a lot of time in it. I would go through the whole thing and make sure it is right. It would be pretty much "new" when I got done with it. It only has 826 hrs on it if the meter was working before the fire.

 

[Bad LP]

The deal sounded like a sliding curve, but he said if I got 5k deep in labor, he would just pay me for my time and scrap the machine, which sounds like an excuse to pay me. He is super nice and probably thinks it is junk and just wants to help me make some cash, but I don't think he understands what I can do and how much I could use this machine. He is always getting surprised by what I do. I am going to talk with him and see if he would just take the $500 as a one time payment and call it done. This may be a project that spans a year or more, as I get time/money to work on it. It may also end up getting done in a short time if things go right. I don't mind working on it. And really, if it ends up running on a briggs and small pump, that's fine, as long as it works. I really think I can get it going. My biggest concern is the pump/drive motors since they were right in the fire. If they check out and only need seals, then all the better. He bought another machine the next day for around 10-12k, an 1840. He figures this one was worth about 10k before the fire.

A twin pump is 3-4k, plus hoses, drive motors, wiring, battery, cables, seals, fluids, and labor. I don't know if it needs a new pump or drive motors, but I can see the total easily going over 10k by the time labor is included. I normally charge 50/hr for simple mechanic work, but this kind of work would be 100/hr. I don't do stuff half way, so there would be a lot of time in it. I would go through the whole thing and make sure it is right. It would be pretty much "new" when I got done with it. It only has 826 hrs on it if the meter was working before the fire.

You do you but I’d have a huge problem pouring that kind of money into a very unknown project.
Last hoses I had made were not cheap

 

[SpaceBus]

You may be better off finding a non runner and using the two carcasses to make on functioning skid loader.

 

[salecker]

I bought a burnt John Deere 440 skidder with the intent of fixing it...
After pricing out tires and wheels for it,it went on the back burner as far as projects went i was $500 into it plus a couple hours to go retrieve it.
A couple years later i bought a 440 skidder where the front driveshaft came apart and busted a hole in the transmission,got it for $5000.00.It had a rebuilt engine,new tires on the back,new wiring harness,rebuilt winch,chains on the front.It had been a private owned skidder at a hunting lodge for years and saw an easy life.
I never could have fixed the burnt one as cheap as buying the second machine,plus i have a lot of extra parts now.Swapped out the tranny from the burnt one,plus the blade was better on the burnt one.
That was 12 years ago.

 

[salecker]

I have sold and installed a couple engines from burnt vehicles.
Only issue was a stuck oil pressure relief valve it would pop the oil filter after running for a couple minuits

 

[hedge wood]

The only way I would consider repairing it would be pay him the five hundred then he's out and then your tear into it and decide if its worth fixing. That old of a machine and were the fire was at I would say you have lost the pumps and wheel motors and those are high price items. I had a battery blow up in a two year old skid loader with two hundred hours on it and got the fire out right away so no hoses, pumps or motor were hurt and I did all the work and still had ten grand in it to get it back going. That was eight years ago. It was a fifty thousand dollar skid loader at the time. I had a ten thousand dollar deductible on my farm insurance so I fixed it myself.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

As far as pumps/wheel motors go, do you think they would be rebuildable or would they be junk?

 

[hedge wood]

As far as pumps/wheel motors go, do you think they would be rebuildable or would they be junk?

Its tough to say looking at the pictures. I would proceed thinking they are bad as far as pricing things out to see how much you would have in parts in the machine. The problem is the machine is a eight to ten thousand dollar machine running and working. Even if you consider your time worth nothing I see a lot of dollars worth or parts being needed. I have rebuilt a fair amount of equipment over the years and I am not seeing the value in this job. One of the last projects I did was a few years old planter a big time farmer had ran and all the wear parts were worn out. The dealer sent it to auction as they didn't want to deal with it. I bought it what I felt was cheap. Had to go there and take it apart to haul home. I spent a winter rebuilding it lots of machining but the main frame part was like new. When I was said and done I had thirty percent of the cost of that exact model planter new in the rebuilt one. I am three seasons on the rebuild and have had zero issues. I didn't keep track of my time but it was a bunch but I am retired from my town job so I had the time. I could have went to town that winter and worked the trades for thirty to fifty a hour but it was nice to stay home.

 

[peakbagger]

The hassle with rebuilding is are all the parts still available? Some companies list parts but when you try to buy them they are out of stock. If you go at rebuilding a piece at a time you may get half of it rebuilt and run into a non available part. Some companies also price the rebuild parts for a high markup, sometimes new surplus assemblies will be less than the parts to rebuild something.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

The hassle with rebuilding is are all the parts still available. Some companies list parts but when you try to buy them they are out of stock. If you go at rebuilding a piece at a time you may get half of it rebuilt and run into non available part. Some companies also price the rebuild parts for a high markup, sometimes new surplus assemblies will be less than the parts to rebuild something.

That's a good point. I know a new drive pump is 3-4k and wheel motors are 1k each, at least from some quick pricing and internet searching. It is not worth it to me if I have to buy those new. I got it because I thought I could spend more time on it than money. If the parts are rebuildable then I don't mind doing it. I guess I'll just have to tear it down and make a list and see what's available.

 

[showrguy]

That's a good point. I know a new drive pump is 3-4k and wheel motors are 1k each, at least from some quick pricing and internet searching. It is not worth it to me if I have to buy those new. I got it because I thought I could spend more time on it than money. If the parts are rebuildable then I don't mind doing it. I guess I'll just have to tear it down and make a list and see what's available.

You should go over to heavy equipment forums and sign up !!

 

[Isaac Carlson]

Nice, another forum! Thanks!

 

[andym]

What engine does it have? If that is a 3.9 Cummins it is probably worth 2k in running condition.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

What engine does it have? If that is a 3.9 Cummins it is probably worth 2k in running condition.

It's a kubota engine. The front half is black, so the engine may need new seals/gaskets. I will pull the valve cover and check the gasket and for burned oil.

 

[Mt Bob]

Nope,pay him only recycler price. Ever wonder why there are so many dead tractors,backhoes,dozers, etc sitting around? Even if your labor is free, the parts are expensive,and unknown issues can pop up. Heck,my nephew got a free running big excavator, because it needs complete under carriage. I now sits in his property, once I gave him the estimate,just for the parts.