Got Propane?

[BoiledOver]

See the graph at this website: http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W_EPLLPA_PRS_SMI_DPG&f=W

Notice that in January of 2000 price for a gallon was $0.95, January of 2014 $2.57. Too bad income levels haven't had such an increase over the same time.

Big smile goin on here though. I use 10 gallons per month for cooking, dhw and clothes drying. Zero on heating so far this season. 8,000 pounds at 17% mc to date..

 

[phantomblack]

Agreed. Here in the Midwest propane spiked to a high of 3.19 due to a shortage stemming from heavy use drying grain. I have used zero propane to heat the house for the past 4 years.

Seeing these prices has made me wonder why some folks size their systems to cover them on 90% of heating days. Why not size for 100 percent and give up some minor efficency loss and avoid having to pay the oil/gas man. Maybe I'm cut from a different thread, but I'd be sick if I had to burn propane to keep up in the coldest days.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Do you have an old electric bill from 2000? I found one, said I averaged 400kw a month. Now it says 1100kw. No changes to anything except newer appliances and the twisty light bulbs. Go figure, magical usage.

 

[huffdawg]

I figure I have paid for my Eko 40 and both of my dhw tanks in two years. I bought a high efficiency buderus modcon. boiler 5 yrs ago. the price of propane has gone from 45L to 95L .
I took it off line 3yrs ago.. What a waste of money that thing was ,I guess I paid for it the 1st year of running my eko.

Huff

 

[BoilerMan]

You should look up #2 heating oil, even more depressing.

TS

 

[SmokeEater]

You should look up #2 heating oil, even more depressing.

TS

Propane at $3.19 a gallon is 1.26 times more expensive than fuel oil at $3.80 a gallon if one doesn't take into account the efficiency of either boiler/furnace/stove.

 

[MarkW]

Do you have an old electric bill from 2000? I found one, said I averaged 400kw a month. Now it says 1100kw. No changes to anything except newer appliances and the twisty light bulbs. Go figure, magical usage.

Not so much magical usage as the fact that everything in ones house stays on, albeit in lower power mode. I cringe walking through the house when dark at all the glowing appliances and nicknacks, including the plethora of wall warts doing their dirty work on my meter.

 

[Fred61]

Not so much magical usage as the fact that everything in ones house stays on, albeit in lower power mode. I cringe walking through the house when dark at all the glowing appliances and nicknacks, including the plethora of wall warts doing their dirty work on my meter.

And the single one that had the biggest effect was the DVR. It's like adding another refrigerator. You're right, I don't need to turn on any lights to walk through my house in the middle of the night.

 

[MarkW]

Yep, it's disgusting!

I got my last propane fill in Nov at $2.29. I used to use it for sholder season heat because I was running a wood furnace. I haven't used propane for primary heat since 2002. With my storage, I don't intend to heat with it at all. Just running my dryer and cooking. Drying clothes off storage doesn't seem too practical. But don't think I haven't thought about it.

 

[huffdawg]

And the single one that had the biggest effect was the DVR. It's like adding another refrigerator. You're right, I don't need to turn on any lights to walk through my house in the middle of the night.

Me neither,but I do use a light when taking a piss though..the sound method gets me in trouble with the old lady.

 

[henfruit]

That waters cold and deep!

 

[NCFord]

I just paid $4.09 per gallon last week, though it was for only 100 gallons and that will last us about 1.5 years. I am sure glad I don't have to
heat with the stuff.

 

[MarkW]

I just paid $4.09 per gallon last week

My last purchase at $2.29 was 183 gallons. You was robbed!

 

[AK13]

We only use propane for DHW heater and for cooking. And they raised my price from $3.69 to $4.04 in December and then to $4.14 for my last delivery. They told me there is a nationwide shortage, but really they are probably just raising prices because everyone is all hyped over the polar vortex. I am getting robbed!

The propane mafia would give me a better price if I heated with it. But I heat with wood and I use an oil-fired furnace for morning warm-ups and when we're away as needed (still nursing a single tank since fall of 2011)! At least heating oil pricing is up front and fixed. Propane pricing is a black art.

 

[BoilerMan]

We only use propane for DHW heater and for cooking. And they raised my price from $3.69 to $4.04 in December and then to $4.14 for my last delivery. They told me there is a nationwide shortage, but really they are probably just raising prices because everyone is all hyped over the polar vortex. I am getting robbed!

The propane mafia would give me a better price if I heated with it. But I heat with wood and I use an oil-fired furnace for morning warm-ups and when we're away as needed (still nursing a single tank since fall of 2011)! At least heating oil pricing is up front and fixed. Propane pricing is a black art.

Either go all LPG or none (other than cook-top....gas is soooo much better to cook on) Get rid of the oil and get a PVC vented condensing furnace.

Electric water heater is MUCH cheaper to run than $4/gal propane.

TS

 

[billb3]

My sister got 76 gallons of propane last week and it was $4.90 a gallon.
I still think that's insane and highway robbery.
Her heat ( besides wood) is a warm start boiler which has to run all Summer.
Plus the water to the water heater runs through the oil furnace first.
Really strange set-up.

 

[jrod770]

wow, I thought my fill up last month at $1.99 was bad.....

 

[jebatty]

Just one more reason to love wood. Propane is a commodity that goes where the money is. No need to grin, just bear it.

A few years ago I mused over what a person could do to insulate from high energy prices, and then I thought it would be good to invest in an energy source. Dummy me. I was sitting on lots of land and trees and it took a brain *art to discover I was sitting on an energy goldmine: sustainable, renewable, carbon neutral, endless source of energy. Very little to do but let nature and the sun do the work it has done well for thousands of years.

 

[Gasifier]

I am still sitting on 1/4 tank of oil now from I don't remember when. The oil boiler turns on very seldom. I am fortunate to have a lot of trees to be able to cut. I use to buy about half of my wood, but am trying to get to the point where I cut every bit of it. I have most of next years supply blocked and piled. I will have the rest cut by spring. Then I will have a lot of splitting and stacking to do! Those propane and oil prices are bad. Bad. I wonder if there will be an investigation into why the price can be jacked up when a really bad cold period hits. What do they call that when a hurricane or other bad storm hits and area and places jack their prices up on plywood and the like? Gauging?

 

[MarkW]

Gouging. I'm not sure I support the price regulation during those emergencies. I get that it seems wrong on the surface but it's supply and demand. Don't buy plywood as a hurricane approaches or your propane as the temps plummet and you won't get screwed. Or if possible, don't buy propane/fuel oil at all.
When I bought my house, I got off electricity because propane was so much cheaper. Oh how the times have changed!

 

[KenLockett]

You should look up #2 heating oil, even more depressing.

TS

Even more depressing than simply looking up the cost is that this winter supply of wood will be gone this week and I have to make the hard decision whether to call the oil man out, tap into next years wood supply currently seasoning (since May) and try to encourage additional drying in the basement, or try to find seasoned firewood for sale this time of year (which is appearing more difficult than I thought). My usual supplier from past years (a renewables plant that sales packaged firewood for camping) informed me on Monday that their usual price of $240 per cord had increase to $385 per cord. On principle I told then good luck and no thanks. With that said still cheaper than fuel oil I suppose but I tend to be very stubborn. May take off Friday to head off into my woods to try processing some dead standing or dead fall that may already be dry.

 

[MarkW]

That's not good. I'm going through it fast, as well. I was able to vet an additional 2 cord to see me through at $130/cord.

 

[mr.fixit]

This thread is why I always liked member Eric Johnson's signature line
"I like a source of fuel where the price,supply and quality is controlled by one guy; me "

 

[AK13]

Either go all LPG or none (other than cook-top....gas is soooo much better to cook on) Get rid of the oil and get a PVC vented condensing furnace. Electric water heater is MUCH cheaper to run than $4/gal propane.

You are right that electric is cheaper. I'd say 10% cheaper if electricity is $0.15/kwh and my propane DHW heater is 80% efficient. We like that the propane runs without power during outages, but that's about it. We'd probably keep the gas for cooking.

The problem with going all LPG and swapping out the furnace is that we hardly use the furnace. So the propane company would get excited when we switched and cut us a break on price, but then they'd see very little increase in usage (because I heat with wood) and jack our price back up again.

I think that the long term answer for me is to go all electric with a HPWH (soon I hope) and someday way down the road a ducted heat pump for the house. Since I mostly heat with wood the furnace is a much smaller concern.

 

[maple1]

Our 80 gallon electric hot water heater costs about $30/month, at $0.17/kwh.

Family of five.

What would a 'typical' propane DHW bill be for a month? There's also the chimney out of it that must be causing SOME standby losses?