Gradma bear, I think

[Renz]

I moved to a new home about a month ago with a Fisher wood-burning stove. I stumbled on this forum and after poking around I believe I have a Grandma bear. The previous owners used it occasionally, which is my intention. I don't plan to use it to heat the house on a regular basis. About a year ago the previous owners added a stainless steel liner and I had it checked and cleaned this past week. I've used it about 5 times with no problem. As you can see from the picture the fire brick is cracked and needs to be replaced. Also, in reading the manual from this forum I discovered that firebrick should also line the bottom. It does not, so I guess I need to do that as well. (I"m new to all this so please be patient.) I also found reference to a "baffle" on this forum but I don't think there is one. Is that necessary? (I apologize for these newbie questions, but this is my first wood-burning stove.) Any advice you can offer would be appreciated. Thanks!
Larry
Also if anyone knows where I can find a screen, I would be interested in purchasing one.

 

[vasten]

With the doors open I cant tell if it is a grandma or not (you can tell by how close the trees are to the door seam).
The baffle was not installed in the original fishers that came along later, however there are instructions here on how to build your own for about $25 depending. The baffles are to reduce the smoke and increase your heat out put, they are really easy as a DIY project.

Screens are nice for fire viewing, but will drastically cut down on your heat out put, so most people tend not to use them as I understand so I am not sure if they are still around, or if they can be found or reproduced.

That is a great stove and with good wood maybe able to be used as a primary heat source if you chose.

Our Fisher expert will be along shortly to further advise.

 

[Renz]

Thank you for the reply. I took a closer look and I was wrong in my original post--it does have fire brick on the bottom. However, some of the brick on the sides is broken or cracked. I also took a picture with the doors closed. If this isn't a Grandma, let me know. Thanks.

 

[coaly]

Looks like one brick is centered in the back of the stove making a total of 5 bricks across the back? If so, it's a Grandma.
If it has 6 across the back it's a Grandpa, so there would be a seam between bricks in the center.

Yes it needs firebrick on the bottom. Very important. Always burn on an inch of ash as well.

If it is a Grandma the door opening will be 17 inches wide X 10 1/2 inches high. Camfan on this site has some new in box
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/fisher-grandma-stove-needs-a-screen-insert.102936/ Click on his member name at left and click "Start a Conversation".

They are not considered a radiant heater with doors open and screen in place. The screen is good for starting damp kindling if needed. You will also need a pipe damper in the first connector pipe section if you don't have one to control the fire with doors open. Slowly close damper until smoke starts to roll in at top. Open slightly to allow smoke to rise up chimney saving some heat from escaping.

 

[coaly]

Thank you for the reply. I took a closer look and I was wrong in my original post--it does have fire brick on the bottom. However, some of the brick on the sides is broken or cracked. I also took a picture with the doors closed. If this isn't a Grandma, let me know. Thanks.

View attachment 190784

Going by the Fir tree design on the doors, it is a Grandpa. The doors may be marked inside GP L for Left and GP R for Right or GM L and GM R. Counting bricks across the back is the easiest way since Grandma uses 5 full bricks and Grandpa uses 6. Door opening for Grandma screen will be 17 W X 10 1/2 high and door opening for Grandpa screen will be 21 W X 10 1/2 high.

 

[coaly]

Here is the design on the Grandma III. Notice the distance between draft cap and tree trunks compared to yours. This shows the larger size difference in doors. This is also the UL Listed box. (used same doors)



Yours was made either in 1979 when only the old style box was in production and this was the first year for optional Cathedral arched top doors, OR it could be made after 1980 since most fabricators offered the old style box which was unlisted without shields for use on non-combustible hearth where UL Listing wasn't required. (UL Listing is now required in new installations in most states) The old style was $100 cheaper. The UL version had bent corners with no angle iron corners becoming legs. They were both designated III after 1979, and the UL version also had integral shields bottom and rear, and Smoke Shelf Baffle.
It is advised to install a baffle in the old style box. This was an attempt to reduce smoke particulate for the upcoming stricter smoke regulations which it did very well, but not good enough for the final phase of smaller particulate size required in 1988.

 

[Renz]

Thank you , Coaly. Over lunch I stopped by the house and took some measurements. The door opening is 17x12.5 and there are five bricks on the back wall. It is also 25.5 inches wide. I'll have to check when I get home for markings. One this is for certain, I certainly have enjoyed learning about it and using it. Thanks for the info.
On another note, the property also came with a barn that has an old stove that hasn't been used in years. I'll have to take a picture of it and see if anyone can identify it. It's pretty rusty but might be salvageable. Thanks.

 

[coaly]

Well, I figured out why your doors looked like they could have been the design for Grandpa. One thing I didn't notice is how low the draft caps are on the door. That is what makes the stove look strange. Compare yours with the normal Grandma in post #6. That is why so much of the tree trunk shows. The caps are lower than the trees.
Only one stove design has low mounted draft caps. They are Goldilocks doors !



The doors from foundry did not have holes cast in door for air intake behind them. The right draft cap is bolted solid to the door for looks. The left cap is nutted to the bolt that spins in the door, and is low on the door to make contact on a tab that sticks up from a flap that goes across the stove for air intake up through pedestal from under home. They are mobile home approved stoves that can also be raised 1 inch off the floor for air intake in conventional construction.

Here is what the air opening looks like through a door for using indoor air; Goldilocks is on the far right.

You can see how much lower it is as well in this pic. That is the only stove that used this door.

Here is the tab that sticks up for the left door bolt adjuster to set flap opening when doors are closed. The idea was to open flap fully when opening doors to allow free air from outside in, and go back to the same adjustment when closing door. They worked very well and was my first Fisher Stove when bought brand new.

This was trademarked "Bear-O-Matic Draft Control".

Maybe you can tell how they machined holes behind draft caps to get air through your doors. It should look different than the cast hole in conventional doors in the previous photo. Some Goldilocks right doors are marked 601 MH R. Strangely nothing on the left door.



Goldi uses Grandma doors with the same size opening.
Possibly ran out of Grandma doors and needed the stove delivered and made these do ????
Never saw that before - and certainly didn't see that one coming. Was this a test?

 

[Renz]

So, just to be clear. It's a Grandma stove with Goldilocks doors? (And not a test, I'm a complete rookie.) Thanks.

 

[coaly]

That's what it appears to be. Most fabricators made boxes and stacked them until sold since they could be vented top, rear or side. Doors could be solid black, brass or nickel plated. So they would vent and hang doors as needed when sold. They probably had boxes ready to go and ran out of Grandma doors since they were also used on the full size Insert. No one was allowed to make their own doors since the royalties were paid along with how many doors you ordered. This way Bob could keep track of what was being made and the doors were very protected from getting into the hands of people welding up their own stoves and hanging a Fisher door on them. There were times they couldn't get the stoves out the door fast enough so fabricators did what they had to do to finish a sale since competition was fierce.

If you can, I'd like to see a close up of the inside of doors to see how they made an opening for air behind the draft caps. I assume both turn and air goes in through both doors?

There is a website for coal burners that someone didn't know what stove their Goldilocks was and had the base sitting on the floor. Of course it couldn't get air up through the pedestal since the intake was designed to have a pipe with screen going down through the floor. The thread was more than I could take when the owner claimed this Fisher was a piece of junk and anyone having one needed to drill holes through the door behind the draft caps to make the stove work........ I joined as Coaly , not because of being a coal stove website, but because I was a locomotive mechanic and fired them. The engine is a Hog, an engineer was known as a Hogger, and fireman as a "Coaly". So the name stuck. Coaly was already taken here, so I signed up with a small "c". Anyway, they never responded to my posts even after telling them I had one with the manual describing the "Bear-O-Matic" draft control in detail. I gave up and informed them they ruined a perfectly good mobile home certified stove with an outside air intake system that was required for factory built housing and they should remove the UL tag since it was modified, lost it's UL and HUD rating since it was no longer being used as tested. I don't think I ever did get much of a response, but I notice now when questions arise concerning Fisher Stoves they are referred here.

 

[Renz]

That's a great story. I'm glad I found the forum because I will probably have more questions in the future. Here are some pictures I took of the inside doors. I can also read the letter that are embossed on the inside.

The first image is of the left door. It's not real clear but the letters are GL /L with a PC underneath it. I'm guessing that they mean Goldilocks left door.

The second image is of the outside draft control for the right door (facing stove)

The third image is the inside of the draft control for the right door door.

The right door has the letters GL /R with a PC under it.

 

[coaly]

Wow, thanks for those pictures.
I think we can make the deduction that Goldilocks was also made for conventional housing with air intakes through the doors. It's possible, that was the original design of the first pedestal stove they made, and the air through the pedestal with solid doors was the change needed to become mobile home certified. If someone wanted to use inside air with the certified stove in conventional housing, they sold a 1 inch ball kit to raise pedestal from floor allowing indoor air up though the pedestal. The Teddy Bear was probably the answer for a pedestal stove ONLY for conventional housing with air inlets through the doors. That model is like a Goldilocks without an ash dump under front and no capability for air through pedestal. They had air vented through door, but the draft cap vents were high like Grandma, possibly using Grandma doors. We won't know that until a Teddy Bear owner lets us know what markings if any are on their doors. That's why I save every pic I can from stove sales to help put the evolution of the stoves together. Have not seen a good pic of the inside of Teddy doors. Now I have something else to look for.


The picture of new old stock doors I posted in post #8 is from unused parts from Colorado. (can't answer why the doors were not destroyed) I've had that pic for years and never noticed the door set on the far left has the low vents like yours and are no doubt identical to your doors ! I bought up the rest of the parts but turned down the doors in rough shape due to shipping cost.

Here's one of the few pics I have of a Teddy with open doors. That's why I stated I only knew of the Goldilocks that had the lower vents.

Now we know how to tell a Teddy from Goldi with doors closed !

Goldi has lower air vents. I always needed an inside pic to see the air flap, tab and screen. Never noticed that. Thanks again.

 

[Renz]

You are welcome, I'm glad I could help. If you want pictures that are clearer or from different angles, let me know. I'm happy to provide them.

I do have one question. Some of the bricks are cracked and broken. How much of an urgency is there to replacing those? Thanks.

 

[coaly]

Unless they are falling apart so bad there is exposed steel it's not a big deal.
They not only protect the side sheets and bottom, they raise firebox temperature which makes a cleaner burning fire. With no bricks, you can warp the sides making a bulge in the flat sheet. You can do that over firing even with bricks, but is uncommon.
Masonry supply stores are usually the cheapest. $1.50 is about the cheapest, $3.00 each at Tractor Supply, ACE Hardware sells by the case. You usually destroy one getting the first one out, the others are much easier. It has to be very clean with absolutely nothing between bricks to fit them in. Ash packs in the cracks and is fine if it fills in cracks of broken bricks. Broken bricks on the bottom can be filled in with sand.

 

[Don H]

To add to what coaly said, the fire bricks are known as "Splits" which are 1-1/4" thick, half the thickness of a regular fire brick.
I describe how I removed the bricks from a Papa Bear here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/removing-fire-bricks.155702/