Harman Auto vrs Manual Savings theory?

[Tonyray]

ok folks, was thinking of this recently as i just replaced a blown ignitor on my P61A.
lot of burners run on room manual to save the ignitor.. not one of them since it;s pretty EZPZ to replace.
now room manual is supposed to use more pellets due to the periodic dribble of pellets to keep the flame alive.
ok..
let's throw a number out there and correct me if u think it's higher or lower.
let's say the constant dribble of pellets comes out to 4-5 bags extra a season or less [if you are a 24/7 burner].
at 5 - 6 bucks a bag that would be 25-30 dollars per year extra pellets...

now if on room auto your ignitor kicks on maybe 10 x a day more or less,even as little as 5x a day, i think the electricity used [120 volt] over the whole season would be much more than the cost of 4-5 bags of pellets.. anyone want to jump in and add or correct/?

not figuring in ignitor cost as they can last for years at times....

 

[jackhammer]

I know it’s not the same, but.... I run my stove on room temp auto, turn the temp to 75-80 and adjust the pellet feed up and down to actually control the temperature. Too hot, lower feed rate. Too cold, turn it up. This eliminates the stove cycling on and off, pellet waste, igniter use, higher eclectic use from igniter. At least that’s my thought process. I have heard that running the feed rate very low is bad for the stove but I haven’t seen any adverse effects yet. During shoulder season, all bets are off.

 

[Tonyray]

Yes. Too low is [ supposedly not good. Steady burn too close to the auger)? Temps never seem to catch up?. It is off topic but sounds extremly warm at that 75-80 setting but sounds like it works for you. 1st time i have seen a post with that high setting for room auto. I also assume u have to be around the stove daily to keep adjusting the feed rate and do u burn 24/7? In theory it sounds like u save cost and pellets.

 

[bogieb]

I normally run my stoves off themostats set at 69* on the main floor and 70* for the basement. If I ran mine in manual all the time, I would be roasted out of the house. There are days that the stove only runs at night because I get enough solar gain (or the temps are above 25*) and the house gets over 70*. Running manual in that type of condition would certainly add a lot more than 5-6 bags per season. There were two separate days last week that I used less than a bag between both stoves with the outside high temps in the low 40's and the low temps in the high 20's.

OTOH, when it gets in the single digits, and I am home, I turn my P43 to stove temp because the stove turns off and then the fans barely quit and it has to start back up again. In that time the back bedrooms get a bit colder than I like. I probaly actually do save a bit on pellets and electricity during that time - but that is not the goal of going to manu

The stoves are run in whatever configuration keeps my house comfortable. I save much bigger bucks by not running my propane boiler (which only heats the main floor anyway), than I worry about in how I run my pellets stoves.

Haven't had to replace an igniter yet (KOW), but did get one so I have it handy should it be needed.

 

[fenderblue]

I use room temperature on my Absolute43C. I had extended the probe to the pretty much center of the 45' house next to a inside wall. I adjust the Easy Touch Control 69-73 degrees. Always 69 during the night sleep time & depending on outside for up to 73 degrees. I don't worry about pellet or electricity as long I am comfortable.

 

[Tonyray]

I use room temperature on my Absolute43C. I had extended the probe to the pretty much center of the 45' house next to a inside wall. I adjust the Easy Touch Control 69-73 degrees. Always 69 during the night sleep time & depending on outside for up to 73 degrees. I don't worry about pellet or electricity as long I am comfortable.

Understand. Post is more to see what costs more in terms of pellets or electric.

 

[jp99]

I use the Stove instead of Room temperature setting and just run mine at constant rate. My basement gets cold and I need my natural gas furnace to kick on some to keep it warm for working down there. The furnace is on a thermostat and you really can only have one heater on a thermostat (two and you'll have heating wars, and pellet stove will cycle a lot more).

The Harman adds a touch of heat and a place my wife can warm herself.

I don't like the fire right next to the auger either for low level burns, so I use some heavy duty aluminum foil to block off the first three air hole rows in the burn pot (put it under the burn pot holes). The fire is pushed out an inch or so that way. I've found it effective this season.

If you don't like your igniter cycling, just run it on room temp, manual. The stove cycles down to minimum burn but doesn't shut off. No need to play with a feed rate.

 

[fenderblue]

Understand. Post is more to see what costs more in terms of pellets or electric.

Sorry

 

[rickwai]

Sorry

I dont think electric usage is a factor either way. I run 1 stove 24/7 and the other maybe 25% of the time and my total electric bill last month was $58.00. I have all led light bulbs and Propane for my other heating appliances ( HW, clothes dryer, range ect) 1600 sq. ft. home w/ full 1600 sq.ft. basement. 2 people and 2 dogs reside here.

 

[jp99]

Th e electricity usage of igniter startups is likely the cost of a bag of pellets.

Rough calculation:
Assume igniter uses additional 1000W (1 kW)
Runs 5 min at startup
12 startups a day
= 1 kW-h
30 days a month
= 30 kW-h

If electricity is 12 cents/kW-h
= $3.60 for one month

So it’s a wash if you burn one extra bag in a month. However, like all machines, you should factor in wear. You are adding cycles to the igniter and will need to replace it sooner if you cycle. And less fan wear and tear for combustion & distribution bearings.

 

[Tonyray]

Th e electricity usage of igniter startups is likely the cost of a bag of pellets.

Rough calculation:
Assume igniter uses additional 1000W (1 kW)
Runs 5 min at startup
12 startups a day
= 1 kW-h
30 days a month
= 30 kW-h

If electricity is 12 cents/kW-h
= $3.60 for one month

So it’s a wash if you burn one extra bag in a month. However, like all machines, you should factor in wear. You are adding cycles to the igniter and will need to replace it sooner if you cycle. And less fan wear and tear for combustion & distribution bearings.

i think many ignitors are 306 watt. at least for my harman..

 

[jp99]

i think many ignitors are 306 watt. at least for my harman..

I couldn't recall for certain, so I used 1kW for a worst case assumption. I know it wouldn't be above that.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I don't have an igniter, n ever did and if I had one, I'd remove it anyway. I prefer manual start with hand sanitizer myself. To me, an igniter is just a lazy person's match...

and... I always run my unit on on a remote thermostat and always did. With my unit, it reverts to the lowest feed setting that I pre-program into the control board. I can custom set all my feed rates at what ever setting I have the unit at.

I usually never run it above the 3 setting (9 available) because I run corn which burns much hotter than pellets can.

Only time I shut down is for cleaning every 3 days and the na handful of pellets and a shot of hand sanitizer and I'm running again. You cannot start on corn because it takes a very hot and sustained flame to combust it. Must start on pellets.

Never gauged my corn usage because my corn is basically free minus the harvest cost. Out of the field (so long as the RM is less than 15 and into the grain tank and into my stove. Above 15, I do dry it down but I'm selling most of it to the co-op anyway. The stove burns very little compared to the thousands of bushels I sell.

 

[tiger]

Yes. Too low is [ supposedly not good. Steady burn too close to the auger)?

I don't like the fire right next to the auger either for low level burns

I'd like to know more about this. What's the theory on this? Any documented cases of damage? I recall asking early on in my ownership, I might find the post/replies, about how far back the burning seems to be taking place, and got a reply that this is OK & normal. I've been burning rather low, on Stove Temp, since new. If anything is being damaged, I'm not noticing it -- what to look for?

Data points: I always run the lower-right knob on Stove Temp, and just barely on at "low", and the lower left dial at between 55 and 65.

 

[Zeus]

When it’s sustained cold I like room manual, in this setting stays at the set temp no ups and downs. room temp auto shuts the stove down dropping the temp in the house 3 to 4 degrees, kicks back on with a raging fire and heats the room up 2 degrees warmer than set temp. ill have to do a test in room auto vs room manual to see which uses more pellets but I would bet it’s room auto Uses more during colder temps.

 

[Tonyray]

I don't have an igniter, n ever did and if I had one, I'd remove it anyway. I prefer manual start with hand sanitizer myself. To me, an igniter is just a lazy person's match...

and... I always run my unit on on a remote thermostat and always did. With my unit, it reverts to the lowest feed setting that I pre-program into the control board. I can custom set all my feed rates at what ever setting I have the unit at.

I usually never run it above the 3 setting (9 available) because I run corn which burns much hotter than pellets can.

Only time I shut down is for cleaning every 3 days and the na handful of pellets and a shot of hand sanitizer and I'm running again. You cannot start on corn because it takes a very hot and sustained flame to combust it. Must start on pellets.

Never gauged my corn usage because my corn is basically free minus the harvest cost. Out of the field (so long as the RM is less than 15 and into the grain tank and into my stove. Above 15, I do dry it down but I'm selling most of it to the co-op anyway. The stove burns very little compared to t"he thousands of bushels I sell.

a lazy man's match? funny. don't think they build them into a pellet stove because people are lazy. don't be so hard on us who don't want to throw "paid fo"r technology in the dumpster..
when u buy a new TV do you also throw the "too lazy to get up/change the channel" remote away? just funnin with ya...
auto or manual, whatever get's the fire goin......

 

[Tonyray]

When it’s sustained cold I like room manual, in this setting stays at the set temp no ups and downs. room temp auto shuts the stove down dropping the temp in the house 3 to 4 degrees, kicks back on with a raging fire and heats the room up 2 degrees warmer than set temp. ill have to do a test in room auto vs room manual to see which uses more pellets but I would bet it’s room auto Uses more during colder temps.

been starting to use the room/manual setting myself as of late for same reasons.. i always read the room/auto uses the least, stove mode uses the most...leaves room manual in the middle? of course the last couple nights in the low teens accidently left on room/auto and i know stove never shut down as i had it set at higher than normal temp setting. 75 or above.

 

[SidecarFlip]

a lazy man's match? funny. don't think they build them into a pellet stove because people are lazy. don't be so hard on us who don't want to throw "paid fo"r technology in the dumpster..
when u buy a new TV do you also throw the "too lazy to get up/change the channel" remote away? just funnin with ya...
auto or manual, whatever get's the fire goin......

Mine is 20 years old, long before igniters were installed in appliances. Having said that tough, there is a set of lugs on my board for an igniter, just don't have one.

Hand sanatizer is cheap and so are wooden matches...

 

[Tonyray]

Mine is 20 years old, long before igniters were installed in appliances. Having said that tough, there is a set of lugs on my board for an igniter, just don't have one.

Hand sanatizer is cheap and so are wooden matches...

I figured u had a much older model.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Only my second one. I actually wore out the first one. You can wear them out if you really try. I started using bio fuel for supplemental heat almost 30 years ago, way back before it was common knowledge. I've burned countless tons of corn and pellets and I've learned from experience what works best and I stick with that. Only burn Somerset or Michigan Hardwood pellets and 10-15% RM shelled corn.

If I wear this one out, I won't replace it. Propane is so cheap here (and we have a condensing high efficiency furnace) that it really isn't feasable economically for me to use it other than for supplement heat when it's real cold out. if my corn wasn't free, I wouldn't use it at all.

 

[Marc S.]

Mine is 20 years old, long before igniters were installed in appliances. Having said that tough, there is a set of lugs on my board for an igniter, just don't have one.

Hand sanatizer is cheap and so are wooden matches...

I don't have an igniter, n ever did and if I had one, I'd remove it anyway. I prefer manual start with hand sanitizer myself. To me, an igniter is just a lazy person's match...

and... I always run my unit on on a remote thermostat and always did. With my unit, it reverts to the lowest feed setting that I pre-program into the control board. I can custom set all my feed rates at what ever setting I have the unit at.

I usually never run it above the 3 setting (9 available) because I run corn which burns much hotter than pellets can.

Only time I shut down is for cleaning every 3 days and the na handful of pellets and a shot of hand sanitizer and I'm running again. You cannot start on corn because it takes a very hot and sustained flame to combust it. Must start on pellets.

Never gauged my corn usage because my corn is basically free minus the harvest cost. Out of the field (so long as the RM is less than 15 and into the grain tank and into my stove. Above 15, I do dry it down but I'm selling most of it to the co-op anyway. The stove burns very little compared to the thousands of bushels I sell.

LOL, that's how I feel about my Harley's, anything above a 99 or an EVO motor. You're just an old school pellet guy.

 

[SidecarFlip]

No Hardley's here. I collect and ride vintage Triumph and Norton motorcycles. Have 4, ride them all.

 

[Marc S.]

No Hardley's here. I collect and ride vintage Triumph and Norton motorcycles. Have 4, ride them all.

 

[Marc S.]

No Hardley's here. I collect and ride vintage Triumph and Norton motorcycles. Have 4, ride them all.

Well you kinda get where Im coming from lol

 

[jp99]

I'd like to know more about this. What's the theory on this? Any documented cases of damage? I recall asking early on in my ownership, I might find the post/replies, about how far back the burning seems to be taking place, and got a reply that this is OK & normal. I've been burning rather low, on Stove Temp, since new. If anything is being damaged, I'm not noticing it -- what to look for?

Data points: I always run the lower-right knob on Stove Temp, and just barely on at "low", and the lower left dial at between 55 and 65.

I don't know about damage, but I do it to keep the auger tube clearer from hardened carbon deposits which are harder to clean there. Moving the flame forward means the carbon collects on the burn pot and is much easier to scrape and clean.

My PC45 has the auger tube erosion problem and I've repaired it with JB Weld, so that is another reason to keep the flame out of the auger tube area.

(PS - the 55 to 65 numbers are the dial for the Room temp mode in degrees; the Stove temp dial uses the numbers 1-7. Low for me is about 1.75)