(Harman) lighting failure / no shutoff?

[tiger]

Odd problem this AM. Stove failed to light after working great for some time. OK, I went a full 10 days without a front end cleanup, so I am not too worried about that. Well, a little, but it has happened before. I figured wait it out, clean it out, start over. However, oddly, after over half an hour the fan was still running. I looked and got the five-blink signal, but the fan kept running, eventually , I unplugged the stove.

Should I worry about this?

Getting ready to clean it out, w/luck it will resume firing right up, but I shut the stove down every night and, although it takes 1.5 hours to cool enough to go silent, it always shuts off.

By the way, about 15 minutes in, I decided to try the bottle of lighting gel I bought. Opened the door, squirted some in, and lighted it with a wand lighter. It light, flames maybe 2" high on the gel, it went out after perhaps two minutes. As I have never used gel before, I am unaware of how to use gel or what to expect.

 

[Washed-Up]

When you clean it, pull the ESP and use a fine grit sandpaper on it, I use 1000 when I clean mine.

 

[tiger]

When you clean it, pull the ESP and use a fine grit sandpaper on it, I use 1000 when I clean mine.

Thanks for the input. Interesting. Do you think the ESP being dirty is causing the non-start, the non-shutdown, or both? Usually, it wipes very clean and I don't even use cleanser on it; indeed, not sure what a really dirty ESP looks like, it never seems that bad. And I was hoping to not pull the insert out of the fireplace this AM... but I might have to.

Wow, it's been stating up every AM for a while now in 6-8 minutes, only sometimes a bit more. Interesting that this AM, I changed nothing, and had a problem.

And here I've been whining about the stove being a bit noisy -- now, with the gas boiler/radiators keeping the house warm, it feels oddly quiet.

 

[rona]

Thanks for the input. Interesting. Do you think the ESP being dirty is causing the non-start, the non-shutdown, or both? Usually, it wipes very clean and I don't even use cleanser on it; indeed, not sure what a really dirty ESP looks like, it never seems that bad. And I was hoping to not pull the insert out of the fireplace this AM... but I might have to.

Wow, it's been stating up every AM for a while now in 6-8 minutes, only sometimes a bit more. Interesting that this AM, I changed nothing, and had a problem.

And here I've been whining about the stove being a bit noisy -- now, with the gas boiler/radiators keeping the house warm, it feels oddly quiet.

If you have a trouble shooting manual from Harman it suggests the esp failure as the possible cause for many of the stoves problems

 

[tiger]

If you have a trouble shooting manual from Harman it suggests the esp failure as the possible cause for many of the stoves problems

Yeah, read that in so many topics here. I just wish it was accessible form the front on an insert! I'd clean it weekly if I had to. I recall it just takes a nut driver (1/4"?) and a few seconds.

Anyway, just did a front-end clean (which does not include removing all those iron/steel plates and such). Turned it on, it lit in 17 minutes or so -- sadly, not all that out of the norm after a cleaning. (A) regardless of how well it's running, I won't got over 7 days between cleanings, (B) I've been putting it off, but I guess a deep clean including pulling it out of the fireplace, cleaning the flue, etc., is needed next week -- or sooner if I have further failures.

 

[gfreek]

Yes 1/4" driver or socket for ESP screw..
This is how I use the gel on my P38.. Turn on stove, combustion blower is on, I use a cup of pellets, dump 3/4 of that in the pot, squirt some gel & mix it up with Harman scraper, ad rest of pellets ad more gel, mix it, lite, leave door open a crack , maybe an inch, I usually see a long flame towards the door. After a few minutes you'll see burning pellets, close the door and go..

 

[tiger]

Yes 1/4" driver or socket for ESP screw..
This is how I use the gel on my P38.. Turn on stove, combustion blower is on, I use a cup of pellets, dump 3/4 of that in the pot, squirt some gel & mix it up with Harman scraper, ad rest of pellets ad more gel, mix it, lite, leave door open a crack , maybe an inch, I usually see a long flame towards the door. After a few minutes you'll see burning pellets, close the door and go..

Thanks for the confirmation on the 1/4" screw.

Interestingly when I tried gel this AM, I randomly squirted some in, lit it... and closed the door. May be my problem. Anyway, as the feed kept going due to non-ignition, that drove the lit pellets into the pan, and I noticed later that they were still burning, barely, down there. Could that have generated enough heat to tell the ESP not to shut the fan off even when I turned the stove off? (in other words: USER ERROR )

Next time I (A) know now to leave the door open a crack, (B) if I use gel don't do it when the burnpot is almost overfilled w/pellets (I kinda thought I'd see a massive flame start immediately and consume the pellets), maybe take some pellets out.

Looks like it's running just fine right now.

 

[gfreek]

So the door or hopper lid being open on my Harman, prevents the auger from feeding due to vacuum loss. Closing the door mine will not feed pellets until the ESP reaches a certain temp from the starting burn..Again mine is a manual start with gel... Your starting sequence may be a bit different using the igniter, feeding and such..

 

[rickwai]

Thanks for the input. Interesting. Do you think the ESP being dirty is causing the non-start, the non-shutdown, or both? Usually, it wipes very clean and I don't even use cleanser on it; indeed, not sure what a really dirty ESP looks like, it never seems that bad. And I was hoping to not pull the insert out of the fireplace this AM... but I might have to.

Wow, it's been stating up every AM for a while now in 6-8 minutes, only sometimes a bit more. Interesting that this AM, I changed nothing, and had a problem.

And here I've been whining about the stove being a bit noisy -- now, with the gas boiler/radiators keeping the house warm, it feels oddly quiet.

This is the difference between a dirty ESP and a clean one. This is a Accentra FS. Complaint was a 3 status light blink. I cleaned it all up and hooked diag tool up to see what things wee doing and all looked good. But customer insisted on a new ESP so I replaced it. I took these pics so he could see what I was seeing. He was elderly and could not get that low to the floor. When I say I cleaned the ESP I just ran the 3" vent brush back the tube and shop vaced it out. Pulling the probe and sanding it ect has nearly no benefit. It is a heat sensor that is sensing 150-400F exhaust. A micro film has no insulating value to throw it off. I told this guy, if you can see it like this it is clean enough.
I obviously went thru the entire stove and cleaned it all up. I took this pic at the beginning so I could show him the source of his problem. (going into a 3 blink status during shutdown)

 

[Washed-Up]

Good to know rickwai, mines never been super dirty, I just figured it was a good practice.

 

[gfreek]

I use a brush similar to this to clean probe and area.
(broken link removed)

 

[tiger]

...and of course, after a perhaps 9 hour burn yesterday, I shut it off, and this AM it lit off in 6 minutes.

So the door or hopper lid being open on my Harman, prevents the auger from feeding due to vacuum loss. Closing the door mine will not feed pellets until the ESP reaches a certain temp from the starting burn..Again mine is a manual start with gel... Your starting sequence may be a bit different using the igniter, feeding and such..

All that makes sense. As I only bought the gel for won't light scenarios, I need to rethink this. I presume if I am in that position, I need to remove most of the pellets built up in the burnpot, then add (how much?) gel, and then follow your open-door method.

This is the difference between a dirty ESP and a clean one. This is a Accentra FS. Complaint was a 3 status light blink. I cleaned it all up and hooked diag tool up to see what things wee doing and all looked good. But customer insisted on a new ESP so I replaced it. I took these pics so he could see what I was seeing. He was elderly and could not get that low to the floor.

YIKES! While I do tend to go well past 1 ton between instances of pulling the insert out, I don't think it's ever looked like that (maybe it's the Hamers pellets?) You don't show an ESP in the photos, just what you are says the stove looks like if the ESP is not cleaned. Elderly? I'm soon to turn 65, I can get down there to clean (and I have a 16' vent brush kit) but figure that, some day, I won't be able to manhandle the stove out... which might mean no more use of the pellet stove.

 

[gfreek]

You can see the ESP in the second photo, in the square tube, kind of shiny thing...which is what it should look like clean..
I use that soft brush I posted so I don't bend the probe, but thats me, others may do different. do have a 3 inch stiff vent brush that I use after I remove the ESP..
If you have a good pile of unburned pellets in the pot I'd would just add gel, mix it in , more gel and lite..
Also I have used these under a pile of pellets occasionally if the starting flame is weak..

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