Harman P52i Room Temperature Mode ?

[Bigjim]

Hello,
I am new to register, but have been using this wonderful site to aid my wife and I in making a new pellet insert purchase. We have just purchased a new Harman P52i. It is quite a bit more stove than our 12 year old P23i Breckwell. We were having to run the breckwell at mid to upper settings to achieve the heat output we were looking for, but this created unwanted loud fan noise. Judging by the heating range of the P52i of 900-2600 sqft, and the innovation of the more automatic room temp mode we felt this was a good option. We have a smaller home, around 1200 sqft, and the stove is located in our living room, which is open to the dinner room and fairly open all the way into the kitchen. I've read about as many threads as i've been able to find, the latest being by
lbcynya titled "How your Haman works, what the manual doesn't tell you. My question is based on the auto room temp mode, and the shut down start up sequence. Here's what i've got going on. I have my stove set to auto ignite with the feed adjuster set to the recommended setting of 4. My temp dial is set to 70° and I turn the Blower/Mode selector from the off position to the room temp L position. The start up sequence works flawlessly as it cranks out a large flamed fire until the distribution blower kicks on. After initial start up the stove ran for about an hour of so before it sensed that it had reached the desired temp and started into shut down mode. The flame burned out completely and after about 30-45 minutes I noticed the room temperature getting pretty cool. Not being the patient type I decided to turn the temp selector up to restart the fire. What I noticed was that I had to turn the temp selector up to almost 80° before the light came on and initiated start up. I was under the impression that to start the stove on room temp mode your dial has to be set higher than the actual temp that the sensing probe is reading. It was certainly not 80° in the room, so i'm beginning to have some doubt on the operation of the stove while in this mode. My temp probe is set about as far away from the stove as I could get given the length of the probe wire extension. I'm guessing here, but probably around 10'. I have it stuck behind the couch with the tip of the probe sticking about the top at probably around 3' above the floor.
Last night was our third night running the stove. The first was a similar experience. We set it to 72° turned it on, and we couldn't figure out how to get it to run cool enough. Finally after reaching a roasting 78° we tried turning down the feed speed, then just turned it off. Tuesday night I just said the heck with auto mode and and started it up in stove temp mode then turned the feed speed and temp dial all the way down. This seemed to give us a liveable temp in the house but left me with a feeling of why did we pay this much money for a new stove if we can't get it to run without messing with the settings. I realize that these issues are probably based on my lack of knowledge in the operating procedure, i'm just kind of hoping someone can straighten me out. I was under the impression that this stove was kind of a set it and forget it operation. I like the idea of the stove ramping down after it's met its desired temp, i'm not sure i like the idea of the igniter probe having to keep working to restart the stove, if in fact the stove ever restarts. Sorry about being long winded here. That's kind of my M.O. Thanks in advance for any advice. Jim

 

[JDenyer236]

I can guarantee you that it's your probe placement. I ended up having to extend mine and relocated it to get it to control the temps properly. Probe should be located near an inside wall at about 5' or roughly eye level. Is there a window near the probe? Is it an outside wall? This time of year your ignitor will cycle a lot, that's just the nature of the beast when heating in the shoulder season. I consider an ignitor to be a consumable, when it wears out I replace it, for me I wan't comfort and if I need to buy an ignitor every few years then so be it. Don't despair, you purchased a great stove and we will all help you get it sorted out, every stove has a learning curve to it. If you can post a pic that shows where your probe is in relation to the stove as well as any walls.

 

[lessoil]

Welcome!
We are on our 2nd control board (Harman P61) and have noticed this.
The temperatures on the dial are NOT very accurate. We use a digital thermometer to give us a better idea
of the actual temp. The temps swing more than I think they should in Room Temp mode and toggle switch in Auto.

When it gets real cold, I usually leave stove in Room Temp mode but throw toggle switch to Manual.
In that setup the stove will feed pellets to maintain temp setting but will not shutdown when temp setting is reached.
It will instead shut room blower off and feed just enough pellets to keep a small fire going. This does not
work well if it is warmer say in the 40's. House will gradually warm up and get too warm.

When the stove was first installed we had an issue with the room temp climbing and the stove not backing off.
I had the sensor/wire coiled up and on the floor behind the stove. Determined that sensor was fine.
The area behind the stove was quite cool. Wall insulation issues. So I extended the wire soldering all connections.
Ran wire down into basement then up into room in the opposite corner. It is hanging from the furnace thermostat.
That problem has not happened since. ***The area where you have your sensor may be cool**

Hope this helps. We do enjoy the pellet stoves. We are warmer and saving money by using less oil.

Enjoy!

 

[lessoil]

I can guarantee you that it's your probe placement. I ended up having to extend mine and relocated it to get it to control the temps properly. Probe should be located near an inside wall at about 5' or roughly eye level. Is there a window near the probe? Is it an outside wall? This time of year your ignitor will cycle a lot, that's just the nature of the beast when heating in the shoulder season. I consider an ignitor to be a consumable, when it wears out I replace it, for me I wan't comfort and if I need to buy an ignitor every few years then so be it. Don't despair, you purchased a great stove and we will all help you get it sorted out, every stove has a learning curve to it. If you can post a pic that shows where your probe is in relation to the stove as well as any walls.

Yes

 

[Bigjim]

I can guarantee you that it's your probe placement. I ended up having to extend mine and relocated it to get it to control the temps properly. Probe should be located near an inside wall at about 5' or roughly eye level. Is there a window near the probe? Is it an outside wall? This time of year your ignitor will cycle a lot, that's just the nature of the beast when heating in the shoulder season. I consider an ignitor to be a consumable, when it wears out I replace it, for me I wan't comfort and if I need to buy an ignitor every few years then so be it. Don't despair, you purchased a great stove and we will all help you get it sorted out, every stove has a learning curve to it. If you can post a pic that shows where your probe is in relation to the stove as well as any walls.

The probe is located on an inside wall. As mentioned I snaked it behind the couch in an effort to keep it hidden then have it poking up about two inches above the top of the couch. It is probably about 3-3 1/2' above the floor. I didn't want a black snake sticking out like a sore thumb so it may be lower than it needs. So do you Harman owners just leave the feed setting at 4 as it recommends in the manual. I guess i'm having a hard time understanding the relationship between heat and feed speed. If you have the temp setting to 70° and your feed speed to 6 it's still going to come up to temp then shut down, correct. Is it just going to do it faster than if you were on feed speed of 4? We currently don't run the stove all night as it hasn't really been cold enough yet, but would like to get things figured out before the need arises. Worry early and often that's my motto.
Off topic, I read this in a nice post earlier and am not sure what it's referring to. Cleaning tip - During your periodic cleaning, turn the knob to "test" while you clean the firebox to evacuate the ash out the chimney vs. into your room.
Just enough info here to get me in trouble. Does the stove have a fire going during this cleaning? Doesn't the test mode just serve to manually feed pellets to the fire box.
Truly appreciate any feedback, thanks in advance for the patients and understanding of a new stove owner. Jim

 

[lessoil]

Yup leave at 4
Cleaning:
Cleaning burnpot ash (as needed thru day)--do while running scrape into ash pan shut the door
Cleaning carbon-like build up from burnpot (1-2 times per week)--No fire but I do trick stove into running combustion fan. I put igniter switch in manual and turn stove on Room Temp. After combustion fan is running I open the door. Fan stays running, no pellet feed and igniter is off. I use a scraper similar to gasket scraper.
Cleaning exhaust pipe (1-2 times per season)--Also use this method when cleaning the heat exchanger top inside of stove and exhaust pipe section that is outside. A little dusty on the arm but no big deal. I use a boiler brush
Cleaning ash pan, igniter area, combustion blower blades, Fines buildup under hopper(many posts on this), exhaust pipe out to sensor (CAREFUL SENSOR VERY SENSITIVE DO NOT HIT) -----stove off and cool

 

[JDenyer236]

The feed rate works like a high limit for pellet feed. Let's just say that each number equals one pound per hour(it doesn't, just using this as an example). If set on 4 the max that the stove could ever feed is 4 pounds per hour. It's like putting a speed limiter in a car. Why have this feature? Pellet sizes differ so this allow you to set it for the brand that you are burning. 4 is a good setting for most pellets but this can be tweaked if needed. On the highest heat setting the ash line should be about 1" from the edge of the pot. I don't mess with this myself, I just set it to 4 and leave it and have great results. You can use the test setting to run the exhaust blower during cleaning, with the door open pellets won't feed and the ignitor won't work. This helps create some suction in the firebox to help keep dust from entering your home. You can turn it to test, or just turn the stove on as only the combustion blower will run with the door open. If you go to the Harman website they have some cleaning videos for each model. Very helpful.

 

[Bigjim]

Good info, thank you. I'll keep playing with the temp prob to see if I get better results on burn consistency.

 

[TonyVideo]

I noticed use mention room temp low. Have you tried also medium or high. I wouldn't go less than medium. You want as much heat out of the stove as possible. Like others, inside wall placement is best. Confirm the connection is solid at the stove as well. Enjoy!

 

[JDenyer236]

That's a great point Tony. If the room blower is on low it's really hard to distribute the heat evenly.

 

[Bigjim]

Six o'clock here on the west coast and I have the stove set on auto at 75°. Once it entered start up mode I put the ignition switch to manual. I like this set up very much as we can continue to have a nice fire in our beautiful stove even when it's not in a heat demand mode. Thanks everyone.

 

[Big papa]

I had moved my temp probe around a lot without satisfaction until I installed it in the hall way out of the stove room.put it right next to the furnace thermostat extended the wire and fished it up thru the wall to get it there.there it isn't affected by convection or the blowers on the stove.in stove temp auto it heated the room up a little warmer than what I had set due to it was still blowing heat in shut down.so I set the stove to room temp manual and was amazed at how well it held to just 1 degree the furnace thermostat never fluctuated off of 72 I have been running it this way for several weeks and if I check the thermostat at any time of day or night it will read 72.so placement of the probe and room temp manual will get you your 1 degree

 

[Big papa]

Oh and select room temp manual high fan speed the stove will adjust the fan speed from there to keep 1degree I promise you will like room temp manual

 

[SWelsch]

All about the placement of the sensor. Mine was tucked under the control panel and the radiant heat in the maintenance mode would prevent the stove from firing back up. I moved the probe in front of the stove about a foot above the floor and at the end of the hearth and it works perfectly

 

[Tonyray]

I prefer room/auto as the stove will squeeze every last bit of heat out of the stove whereas in manual, it will idle for quite bit of time with the blower OFF sending heat out the exhaust and sort of wasting pelltets..
my probe is taped to the back of the hopper sticking up about an inch above it.
set at 74 degrees, it matches my wall thermostat across the room.

 

[SWelsch]

I guess that's why they give us the option to use either one. I'm going to guess that heating up from off as in auto mode takes longer than in manual mode and might use up the pellets that you would otherwise waste in manual mode. In any event it's 11 degrees here in Maryland my house is 69 degrees and I'm not using any other source of heat. 4000 sq.ft. Open floor plan. Great stove

 

[Tonyray]

I guess that's why they give us the option to use either one. I'm going to guess that heating up from off as in auto mode takes longer than in manual mode and might use up the pellets that you would otherwise waste in manual mode. In any event it's 11 degrees here in Maryland my house is 69 degrees and I'm not using any other source of heat. 4000 sq.ft. Open floor plan. Great stove

"heating from off" i always pondered at times..
but the sending of heat out the exhaust for long periods of time in manual sort of won that mind game for me.
good point though..

 

[Husky]

I have owned my 52i now for 3 seasons. I initially had the same problem with maintaining a a comfortable heat setting in auto room temp. I had the same swing in room temperature and couldn't keep the room comfortable. After playing with the probe and placing it at different height and different distances from the stove I decided there had to be another alternative to the probe. I did some research and looked into adding a wireless thermostat to the stove. I decided on a skytech 5301P. This solved my problem and gave me more flexibility on how I use my stove. The wireless thermostat will first allow you to move the thermostat 20+ feet away from your stove. The next great thing is you can set the swing temp on the thermostat from 1 to 3. This allows the stove to kick on and off when the temperature in the room fluctuates from 1 to 3 degrees. I set the swing to 1. Temp of the room reaches 72, the stove goes into shutdown. Room cools to 71 and the stove fires back up. During the warmer part of the season my stove would go to shutdown and stay off for a while but during the colder part of the season this swing setting allows my stove to throttle back and then kick back on before my stove shuts down saving on my igniter.
As I stated the skytech also gives you more flexibility. I can set the stove now to turn on and off for 4 cycles each day. When we go to work in the morning I program the stove to shut off and I have it turn on 2 hours before we return home from work. At night I program it to shut off at bed time and have it turn on 2 hours before we wake up.
The thermostat was real easy to install and the batteries last a whole season, maybe longer but I change them out at the begging of the season just to be safe.

 

[Tonyray]

I have owned my 52i now for 3 seasons. I initially had the same problem with maintaining a a comfortable heat setting in auto room temp. I had the same swing in room temperature and couldn't keep the room comfortable. After playing with the probe and placing it at different height and different distances from the stove I decided there had to be another alternative to the probe. I did some research and looked into adding a wireless thermostat to the stove. I decided on a skytech 5301P. This solved my problem and gave me more flexibility on how I use my stove. The wireless thermostat will first allow you to move the thermostat 20+ feet away from your stove. The next great thing is you can set the swing temp on the thermostat from 1 to 3. This allows the stove to kick on and off when the temperature in the room fluctuates from 1 to 3 degrees. I set the swing to 1. Temp of the room reaches 72, the stove goes into shutdown. Room cools to 71 and the stove fires back up. During the warmer part of the season my stove would go to shutdown and stay off for a while but during the colder part of the season this swing setting allows my stove to throttle back and then kick back on before my stove shuts down saving on my igniter.
As I stated the skytech also gives you more flexibility. I can set the stove now to turn on and off for 4 cycles each day. When we go to work in the morning I program the stove to shut off and I have it turn on 2 hours before we return home from work. At night I program it to shut off at bed time and have it turn on 2 hours before we wake up.
The thermostat was real easy to install and the batteries last a whole season, maybe longer but I change them out at the begging of the season just to be safe.

good idea but shutting the stove down all day would not work for us.
takes too long to bring the house back up to 74 degrees. and too many swings in temperatures here..
a good 3 hour to get the heat upstairs to a steady 66...
our house is not insulated well and would be 60 when we got home..

 

[Husky]

good idea but shutting the stove down all day would not work for us.
takes too long to bring the house back up to 74 degrees. and too many swings in temperatures here..
a good 3 hour to get the heat upstairs to a steady 66...
our house is not insulated well and would be 60 when we got home..

The wireless thermostat will still give you better control of the temperature in your room as you can move the thermostat around and find the best placement for better even heat throughout your room.
Another thought is when the temps outside get as cold as it is today, high 13 in my area, then I run my stove in constant temp mode. The only down side to this is you have to play around with the feed rate to find where it keeps the house comfortable. For me, I know I have to run feed rate around 4.5. There is a learning curve to any stove to learn what works best and in what situations. It took me the 1st year to learn what works for me. Good luck.

 

[Tonyray]

The wireless thermostat will still give you better control of the temperature in your room as you can move the thermostat around and find the best placement for better even heat throughout your room.
Another thought is when the temps outside get as cold as it is today, high 13 in my area, then I run my stove in constant temp mode. The only down side to this is you have to play around with the feed rate to find where it keeps the house comfortable. For me, I know I have to run feed rate around 4.5. There is a learning curve to any stove to learn what works best and in what situations. It took me the 1st year to learn what works for me. Good luck.

then I run my stove in constant temp mode.
OK.. i keep it in room/auto mode in those temps because my stove will not shut down either..too cold out specially overnite..

 

[Harman Fifty Two i]

I have the same stove for three years now and love it. It’s trial and error with the probe for sure IMO You can stick it wherever really I have learned, but here’s the thing. Say you want the room 70 you may have to turn the dial up the 76 say on the stove to reach 70 or you might actually have to turn it below 70 to say 66. I’m not sure if you have a thermostat in the room or not, but if you don’t maybe buy a cheap wireless one just to give you an idea of what’s going on temperature wise beside the probe. Up here in the northeast it’s bleeping cold out this week. I’ll start it on room temp auto then switch it to manual in this weather. When it’s not nasty cold like this I’ll leave it on auto. So in the end set it up in a place that you think will be a good spot and learn your set up from there. Good Luck