Harman P68. Is this normal?

[Deric]

Hey everybody! My name is Deric. I am from northern MN, where I just purchased my first home. It is a small log cabin on a dead end dirt road, about 15 minutes away from the city.
Anyway, this new home of mine comes with a Harman P68. I've done plenty of research on the model and pellet costs and how to survive the winter. I imagine I've still got plenty to learn when it comes time to fire this thing up and maintain a warm house too.
Tonight I decided to clean the stove according to the How-to videos provided by Harman. I expected this stove to be extra dirty considering the house was a rental for the last 3 years. However, I am not sure this is normal. I'll attach pictures below so you can see what I mean. Maybe this is normal for a pellet stove, but my gut tells me it's not right. This stuff is hard as rock and glossy black. I can hardly scrape it off. Its really bad in where the fan is located. Is it worth fighting with or should I just leave it?

Any advice? Thanks in advance!

 

[Lake Girl]

Congrats on the new house but I feel very sorry for the P68. That is definitely not normal. Do not use it until you have the creosote removed and check out how all the components function. I think this spray is a good one but likely can only get from a stove shop. The amazon listing is for 4 spray bottles so it's not cheap but then neither is a new Harman Likely the venting is a mess too. Is the stove still in the house or out in the garage while you are working on it?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015NBVUUO/?tag=hearthamazon-20

Keep us posted on your progress. I'm sure others will chime in with sympathies and suggestions. I'm kind of at a loss as I have never seen creosote that bad...

 

[Deric]

Now I have another problem. When I first got in this house I plugged the stove in and lit the pellets just to see that it worked. It lit right up and had a nice big flame and started blowing hot air right away. Now I've been trying for an hour to get it to light and it no longer blows air through the small holes so it won't light or burn at all.
The bad news is that it's getting cold here and this is the main source of heat for my house.

 

[Edward Hughes]

Hey everybody! My name is Deric. I am from northern MN, where I just purchased my first home. It is a small log cabin on a dead end dirt road, about 15 minutes away from the city.
Anyway, this new home of mine comes with a Harman P68. I've done plenty of research on the model and pellet costs and how to survive the winter. I imagine I've still got plenty to learn when it comes time to fire this thing up and maintain a warm house too.
Tonight I decided to clean the stove according to the How-to videos provided by Harman. I expected this stove to be extra dirty considering the house was a rental for the last 3 years. However, I am not sure this is normal. I'll attach pictures below so you can see what I mean. Maybe this is normal for a pellet stove, but my gut tells me it's not right. This stuff is hard as rock and glossy black. I can hardly scrape it off. Its really bad in where the fan is located. Is it worth fighting with or should I just leave it?

Any advice? Thanks in advance!

Deric:
You may want to change the title to include (Harman P68) Is this Normal?

 

[Pellet-King]

The bad news is that it's getting cold here and this is the main source of heat for my house.

Wow, you could never buy a home around here with a pellet stove as main source of heat, illegal, If you cant figure it out, better hire a pro to clean/repair it....Now!

 

[Tim_M]

The creosote is a product of incomplete combustion which could be caused by a few things but is most likely an airflow issue. If the stove wasn't cleaned for a long time that would probably result in creosote buildup. An issue with the venting could also be a factor. Burning damp pellets or other fuel is another potential cause.

You might want to post your new problem in a new thread.

 

[Edward Hughes]

Good morning Deric:
Welcome to the crew. Your will find alot of help, with the harmon p68, and suggestions, as Lake Girl
has said. My suggestions are:
1- Buy new fans complete, with the housings. The old ones, may have been blowing fuses.
2- Buy gaskets that will replace the old ones.
3- All the old parts can be serviced and used as spares, in a nice warm home. You said, " It's getting colder".
4- Get the stove out of the house, you will need to get the Blower out for this One, After the chisel, (*No Joke)
5- Add Harmon P68, Is this normal? in your Title Post.
Good Luck
Hope this Helps
ED
P.S. Pellet King Had a good Post, " HIRE A PRO, to clean and repair it now" I'm 70 and still
THINKING 20's 30's Good Luck

 

[Lake Girl]

I would suggest you get a heater to keep the chill off as a temporary measure. Creosote is highly flammable (cause of chimney fires) so you need to get the Harman cleaned up. You are way beyond simple maintenance. Always unplug the stove when working on it. Not sure of your mechanical ability so you may decide a stove shop should do this for you...
Here's the manual (broken link removed to http://downloads.hearthnhome.com/installmanuals/p68.pdf)

Ed gave you a good starting list ... gaskets and new convection and combustion blowers. I would add you may need an ESP, door gasket, igniter, surge protector. These are not inexpensive parts but when the Harman is cleaned up and functioning well, they are a reliable heat source. Don't be afraid to ask questions here ... there are many who have refurbished multiple Harmans. You will want to get some PB Blaster to help loosen screws/bolts and some anti-seize for when you start putting it back together.

Also need to check out the exhaust venting... Creosote as well? What is the current set-up? Does it have an outside air kit? Is the stove on a hearth?

Couple of vendors for parts ... not sure of stove shops in Duluth.

http://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/Harman-Exhaust-Combustion-Blower-Motor-p/3-21-08639.htm OEM version (Mountain View out of Montana)
http://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/Harman-Exhaust-Combustion-Blower-Motor-p/pp7613.htm Gleason Avery replacement

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FN4PLK2/?tag=hearthamazon-20 Gleason Avery replacement (Earth Sense Energy out of Wisconsin)

There are safety switches on the firebox and ashpan doors so if either of those were open when you made your second attempt, it won't start. There is a test mode that allows you make sure everything is working but you've got a ways to go before you get there.

Keep us posted...

 

[Lake Girl]

Apparently Wal-Mart is supposed to carry the spray but likely dependent on size of the local store...

 

[Highbeam]

I worry about you going into winter with no heat. We were at 40 degrees in warm western Washington this morning. I am doing winter things like taking the hoses off of the outside hydrants. Stoves and fuel have been ready for heat (100% wood heat) since August.

 

[jzm2cc]

Like everyone else has stated, don't use stove until exhaust is cleaned out. Odds are it's plugged resulting in poor flow and cresote build up. Also be careful scraping around exhaust fan as blades bend easily. If it was my stove, I'd try again post cleaning to see if it achieves vacuum and feeds pellets, lights etc.

Did you replace cover ovev exhaust fan on your failed second attempt at starting it? That may explain the no start due to no vacuum being created in burn chamber.

Get a CO and multiple smoke detectors if you dont have them.

 

[Deric]

Thanks for all the advice everybody! I emailed a few local companies to come take a look and do a professional cleaning. Some company I never emailed, called Oxi-Clean or Oxi-Fresh or something like that called me and set up an appointment for tomorrow morning. Not sure who they are but hopefully they do a good job.

Like everyone else has stated, don't use stove until exhaust is cleaned out. Odds are it's plugged resulting in poor flow and cresote build up. Also be careful scraping around exhaust fan as blades bend easily. If it was my stove, I'd try again post cleaning to see if it achieves vacuum and feeds pellets, lights etc.

Did you replace cover ovev exhaust fan on your failed second attempt at starting it? That may explain the no start due to no vacuum being created in burn chamber.

Get a CO and multiple smoke detectors if you dont have them.

When I run it on TEST mode, both fan lights are on, I can see the lower fan behind the ash pot spinning, and I can feel the motor on the rear fan is working. But which one blows through the ash pot? I have no flow through there even though the holes are clean. There was flow last time I lit the stove, now there is nothing. What would cause that if both fans are still working?

 

[Lake Girl]

The blower behind the ash pan is the exhaust blower. It draws air through the burn pot and sends it out the exhaust venting. While the burn pot holes may be clean, other connected passages may not be ... From your photos, it is apparent that there is an airflow restriction causing creosote. May just be extreme ash buildup in the exhaust venting... could be a critter like a dead bird or chipmunk. Is there a screen on the exhaust vent termination outside? Is there an outside air kit attached?

Oxifresh of Duluth is a carpet cleaning service??

 

[PJPellet]

If my stove is not cleaned at the end of the summer, it will look like this by the end of summer. The humidity in the air turns the fly ash into a black goo. This is why I clean it very well before the summer months and I always stick some Damp Rid into the stove while it is not being used during the summer as well.

I have a P43, the smaller brother to your P68. If you know that the pipes are clear and can get the stove going and let it run for a few hours that black goo will turn back into dry fly ash once the moisture is removed by the fire and heat. This is what I did the first year that I did not know to clean it well before the humid summer months.

Good Luck.

 

[Deric]

May just be extreme ash buildup in the exhaust venting... could be a critter like a dead bird or chipmunk. Is there a screen on the exhaust vent termination outside? Is there an outside air kit attached?

Oxifresh of Duluth is a carpet cleaning service??

I'll have to double check now but when I moved in a few weeks ago there was a screen over it. No outside air kit though. I did not know about those until just now.

I can see a good length of the exhaust vent behind the blower if I used a flashlight. It looks like the rocky mountains in there.
The only information I can find on this Oxi company is some national carpet cleaning facility. They look like one of those Billy Mays type of companies and their site says nothing about stoves or chimneys that I can find. I guess we will see what he can do tomorrow!

 

[Mt Bob]

OK Lets try to get you running.First I would call your carpet cleaner,you will prob. be wasting money.2nd,dont worry about the hard stuff until stove has been run a while,as previously said.Now,air is not "blown" through the holes,it is sucked through the holes,from under the holes.The blower creates a vacuum,therefor doors have to be shut,gaskets have to be good.Will post a link to a video,do what this man does,dont worry about the caked on stuff yet,and try to light. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...8E7677C88D9AD9E8A44F8E7677C88D9AD9E&FORM=VIRE

 

[Lake Girl]

Doesn't look like you have carpets for Oxi-fresh to clean! How is the exhaust venting set up? 3" or 4" diameter? Have you gotten a brush to give that a scrub or waiting to see how they make out tomorrow?

From the fire chief sitting across the room, creosote does not "convert" to fly ash. It is very flammable ... due to the volatile components of wood.
Wikipedia info: 73% of heating fires and 25% of all residential fires in the United States are caused by failure to clean out creosote buildup.

The spray mentioned earlier apparently alters the chemical properties of the creosote
"Anti-Creo-Soot creosote remover is a non-toxic and environmentally safe liquid manganese catalyst that attacks and destroys dangerous creosote and soot. It is safe for fireplace soot removal and creosote removal in all wood, coal and pellet burning appliances including those with catalytic combustors. ACS is an ideal maintenance product for preventing creosote buildup."
http://www.acshomeandhearth.com/acs_liquid.html

Keep us posted Deric...

 

[Deric]

Ok thanks everyone. I am going to see what happens after this morning's cleaning. I assume it still won't have any vacuum after that But I can always hope.

But, new information. I've been running it on test mode trying to diagnose. I put a piece of news paper over the holes in the burn pot without any pellets. When the stove is sealed up, nothing happens. When I crack open the hopper lid I get slight, but constant, air flow throw the burn pot. As soon as I shut the hopper lid, the paper lays back down with no airflow. Bad window or door gasket maybe?

 

[Mt Bob]

Blocked exhaust or blocked air intake.

 

[Lake Girl]

It may be more an issue of blocked flue. From the look of the door, you should replace the door gasket anyway. Have you run a brush through the venting? How is the venting set up and does it have a clean-out T?

Once venting is cleaned out, if you still have an issue than you need to check the air intake side.

 

[jzm2cc]

Ok thanks everyone. I am going to see what happens after this morning's cleaning. I assume it still won't have any vacuum after that But I can always hope.

But, new information. I've been running it on test mode trying to diagnose. I put a piece of news paper over the holes in the burn pot without any pellets. When the stove is sealed up, nothing happens. When I crack open the hopper lid I get slight, but constant, air flow throw the burn pot. As soon as I shut the hopper lid, the paper lays back down with no airflow. Bad window or door gasket maybe?

Opening hopper creates air pathway bypassing plugged intake. Check for stuck closed air intake flapper, or if you have outside air u may have a bird nest in duct.

 

[Deric]

According to the cleaner, the vent was basically blocked shut. He cleaned it all out and cleaned the whole stove and still nothing worked. He ended up fiddling around in the back side and found the flap for the intake that was stuck shut. He popped it open and cleaned it out and everything works! I feel stupid that it was such a simple issue, but the stove needed cleaning anyway and now I finally have some heat on the lower level. Thanks for everyone's input, such a helpful group

 

[Lake Girl]

Glad to hear they got it going .... pics or it didn't happen

PS What did they use to clean it up?

 

[Edward Hughes]

Deric:
That sure was a job to tackle, for anyone with or without training. Hope you can share, who clean
the stove.


Thanks
Ed

 

[rona]

Hopefully you watched and learned how to take things apart so next time you will know how to do it. The exh should be your first thing to clean if you start having problems. Normally a Harman is simple maintenance after you get used to it. The preferred method is clean it in the spring and plug the exh so bird nest etc can't cause problems Then I usually spray cheap cooking oil inside to minimize rust over the summer. There is a metal box in the back of the stove with a wing nut on the side. This contains a mechanism that slides a metal slide open and shut on the bottom of the hopper. Fines will accumulate inside that box so if you remove the wing nut then a cover will come loose so you can clean the fines out. This usually doesn't have to be done every couple years but a lot of people don't know about it. The ESP probe should have been removed and cleaned as well. I think both of these things should be in your manual.