Harman XXV install - update (facepalm)

[MarkF48]

Where are you taking your combustion air from?

"Heating “the Revolutionary Cottage†ca. 1758 in CT"
If this ca. 1758 cottage is anything like my early 1800's farmhouse, finding combustion air is not much of a problem

 

[Delta-T]

i have 2 cents to throw in the ring.....
-when the stove is running, open the hopper lid and see if your flame changes (it should).
-double check the cover plate to you igniter area, if its loose, air will be redirected through it, rather than through the pellets (air will follow the path of least resistence).
-by any chance did the installer use a mangahelic guage to measure the "draft" of the unit?
-on the back of the stove, on the air intake, is a "reed valve" that opens when the unit is on, and closes when off, if its stuck closed it will cause unburnt pellets (its a metal flapper, just tap it to make sure it swings freely).

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Where are you taking your combustion air from?

"Heating “the Revolutionary Cottage†ca. 1758 in CT"
If this ca. 1758 cottage is anything like my early 1800's farmhouse, finding combustion air is not much of a problem

Ah, but trust me you don't need to fight with several drawing fireplace flues.

Mary has at least three in that beehive.

 

[mfglickman]

Your layout diagram indicates three fire place openings. All of them need to be checked.

Where are you taking your combustion air from?

Did the flame guide make any difference when you installed it?

ETA: You are looking for light or air currents.

There once were 3 fireplace openings on the central chimney, but one of them was sealed at the fireplace (I think it's plaster - but my husband absolutely refuses to allow me to demo it, lol). That's the one in the dining room, in my diagram. There are 2 in the library - the stove is in the beehive fireplace and then there's a small one that's sealed at the top of the firebox with sheet metal.

THEN there's another fireplace, on an exterior chimney, in the family room addition.

I need to check all of these? How do I check the one that's lined for the oil burner? (There is a sweep access door - about 8 inches square and made of cast iron - in the basement for this flue, but I've not looked into it since the chimney guys lined that flue...)

And as for combustion air, well let's just say that fresh air seems to find its way into this house easily...we've insulated the attic and tightened the windows/gaps where we see/feel them with plastic, caulk, foam and rope caulk...the front door and storm are new and well weatherstripped...but this will never be a closed air system.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Your layout diagram indicates three fire place openings. All of them need to be checked.

Where are you taking your combustion air from?

Did the flame guide make any difference when you installed it?

ETA: You are looking for light or air currents.

There once were 3 fireplace openings on the central chimney, but one of them was sealed at the fireplace (I think it's plaster - but my husband absolutely refuses to allow me to demo it, lol). That's the one in the dining room, in my diagram. There are 2 in the library - the stove is in the beehive fireplace and then there's a small one that's sealed at the top of the firebox with sheet metal.

THEN there's another fireplace, on an exterior chimney, in the family room addition.

I need to check all of these? How do I check the one that's lined for the oil burner? (There is a sweep access door - about 8 inches square and made of cast iron - in the basement for this flue, but I've not looked into it since the chimney guys lined that flue...)

And as for combustion air, well let's just say that fresh air seems to find its way into this house easily...we've insulated the attic and tightened the windows/gaps where we see/feel them with plastic, caulk, foam and rope caulk...the front door and storm are new and well weatherstripped...but this will never be a closed air system.

The reason I ask about combustion air is that it is possible to think you have enough air coming in through cracks but with all kinds of things to draw it out you may not have enough.

You have to check all places that are chimneys a single chimney can suck a lot of air out of a building you do not want that to be air you just paid to heat.

Your stove also is displaying symptoms of lack of air from the descriptions you have provided.

Did you check what Delta-T mentioned, he is a stove tech and has seen more than the normal share of funnies.

 

[mfglickman]

i have 2 cents to throw in the ring.....
-when the stove is running, open the hopper lid and see if your flame changes (it should).
-double check the cover plate to you igniter area, if its loose, air will be redirected through it, rather than through the pellets (air will follow the path of least resistence).
-by any chance did the installer use a mangahelic guage to measure the "draft" of the unit?
-on the back of the stove, on the air intake, is a "reed valve" that opens when the unit is on, and closes when off, if its stuck closed it will cause unburnt pellets (its a metal flapper, just tap it to make sure it swings freely).

Lessee...

- flames get slightly smaller when the hopper is opened.
- cover plate to igniter - not in manual. Will have to have DH help me find this in a cold stove.
- installer did not even turn the unit on. Said the caulk needed to cure 3 hours before firing it up - and by then he was long gone.
- again, this isn't marked in the manual but by feeling around back there I found an open hole next to the vent (when reaching back there when the stove is on, bear in mind that that vent connection is hotter than a m*f*. )


So I've stuffed some rockwool up the chimney (see note about hotter than a mo*fo*, above. Stove is averaging 10 - 12 hours to burn a bag of pellets. Night time temps are around 20 and daytimes in the 40's. Pellets have been Wood Pellets Co.. Hamer's, Maines, Potomac and a few others I've found around to try. None have lasted more than 12 hours for a bag. House hits a max temp of 61 in the rooms next to the library, and the library (where the stove is located) is about 65, maybe slightly warmer directly in front of the stove.

I just went to another stove store to get ceramic spacers for a mantel shied for my Fireview, and stood wistfully admiring the St Croix and Quad stoves that were just CRANKING out heat in the showroom. My stove does not put out heat like that even running full bore (stove temp, high, feed rate 4-5). I am so disappointed in this thing - and I'm still freezing my a$$ off, just slightly cheaper (were it not for the 3500 stove and 800 install/parts)


Mary

 

[Delta-T]

cover plate to igniter...page 26ish (my version of the manual) under "Maintenance-Burn Pot". Its on the front of the burnpot, held on with 2 wing nuts, make sure its on straight, and that the wing nuts are tight (just finger tight, no tool required).

you can pretty much ignore the feed adjuster. set it anywhere above 3.5 and pretend it not there. Set the stove to "Stove Temp", doesn't matter where (L-H) and set the other dial (the one with the degrees on it) to 7 and see what happens. Should crank out some serious heat.

 

[Delta-T]

looked for a good pic of the air intake assembly, dont have one in that manual.....if you are sitting behind the stove, with the 2 panels removed, the intake would be to the right (6 inches) and above (3 inches) the exhaust pipe. Its round (2 7/8 inches) and facing out the rear of the stove. it has a grey piece of metal in the hole, tap it to see that it swings freely.

 

[lbcynya]

you can pretty much ignore the feed adjuster. set it anywhere above 3.5 and pretend it not there. Set the stove to "Stove Temp", doesn't matter where (L-H) and set the other dial (the one with the degrees on it) to 7 and see what happens. Should crank out some serious heat.

Please do what Delta suggested above, this should melt your eyeballs from a few feet away.

Also, to eliminate a lot of guesswork, take pictures of the install and post them to this thread. Know what they say about a pic and a million words.

Even better would be a short UTube video showing your dial settings and how it burning.

If you still have trouble finding the intake, I can post a pic tonight to give you some direction.

 

[mfglickman]

OK, it's done. Not melting my eyeballs but the Newfs think it's worth milling around/lying down in front.

Pics attached of the install, the room and the control board/settings.

ETA temp on thermostat which is on the wall just to the left of the small navy sofa against the yellow wall is 61, after running full strength all day, 40 degrees outside.

 

[fmsm]

Isn't manual setting on stove temp for ambiance? Try flipping it to auto?

 

[Defiant]

Stove looks to be running fine. Is your distribution/convection blower on?

 

[mfglickman]

Isn't manual setting on stove temp for ambiance? Try flipping it to auto?

I have room temp or stove temp. Auto and manual are for the ignitor. It runs nonstop trying to hit 70 on room temp so stoveguy suggested trying stove temp.

The flames are lovely but the thermostat won't budge over 61. And that's running it 24/7, flat out, 2 - 2.5 bags a day. Hamers Hot Ones lasted 12 hours - that's the best so far.

 

[lbcynya]

Hard to tell, but the switch should be set to auto in stove temp mode. This keeps the distribution fan running all temp settings. Since the temp dial is over 5, the distribution fan should run anyway. Looks like its burning hot. Chimney could be robbing a bit of the radiant heat from the sides.

Are you getting warmer at your current settings?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Hard to tell, but the switch should be set to auto in stove temp mode. This keeps the distribution fan running all temp settings.

... snip

It won't if the blower is bad.

Mary, is the convection blower running?

 

[Defiant]

Is that the probe draped over the cabinet door?

 

[tundraSQ]

Couple things to try...i am no expert, but i have an XXV and it warms my 2500 sq foot colonial nicely.

1. room temp will give you more heat
2. open the door to the controls and set it to room temp, set the feed rate to 3.5 or 4 and set the temp to 75.
3. Now if you adjust the room temp knob to about 3/4 of the way toward H, you should have a failry good air flow coming out of the stove, right>
4, reach into the wall of the control box toward the side of the stove and you should feel a rocker switch...up is HIgh and down is Low...make sure you are on High...if by chance your stove came set to low you will never get heat out in the rooms.

12 hours to a bag of pellets set to the way i have mine set, and how i asked you to set yours is about right. But my room is currently 76 degrees and its about 25 degrees here in vermont.

also during normal ops...ash WILL get on the sides of the ash pan, and will fill up around it over the course of about two weeks....but getting behind the ash pan is not normal. Hopefully using the flame guide has eliminated that.

Also Opening the door should kill the flame....mine dies down pretty quick....its more than "just a little lower"...but i keep my flame kind of high when i am cranking the stove at night.


Hope some of this helps....it really is a great stove..you just need to get it operating to its potential.

 

[MarkF48]

4, reach into the wall of the control box toward the side of the stove and you should feel a rocker switch...up is HIgh and down is Low...make sure you are on High...if by chance your stove came set to low you will never get heat out in the rooms.

Late 2011 XXV here...... no rocker switch as noted above, unless I'm not seeing it somehow. Not much in that cavity except the wiring harness going into the stove. However, the "Stove Temp"/"Room Temp" control has H & L continuous settings for the distribution blower speed.

 

[thedak]

Correct

I have an early 2011 XXV.

There is no H/L Rocker Switch.

 

[Defiant]

I also have 2011, no rocker switch (in control box area) but have a hopper lid switch (which was not on earlier models).

 

[3650]

i think you were facepalming when you shouldve been ass-palming. lol

 

[mfglickman]

i think you were facepalming when you shouldve been ass-palming. lol

Wow. I've no clue what that means. I'll just assume it was meant kindly, k?

My update - the dudes from the stove store came yesterday. Gave the XXV a once over and proclaimed that it is running correctly. I feel better knowing there's nothing wrong with the stove itself and nothing is being burnt out/ruined because it's not functioning and me (dumb homeowner) just didn't realize it.

Stove guys say they blame the house - old house, lotsa drafts, never gonna get even the room it's in to 70 degrees. Ugh. We have added attic insulation, have platicked/rope caulked windows and blocked a bunch of air leaks. Added rolled out batt insulation on floor joists in crawl spaces we can access. We cannot access part of the roof (cathedral ceilings) nor can we afford to spray into the walls or the floors of the crawl that we cannot access with batts. So it is what it is.

At least it's keeping the oil furnace off. I wish we were warm but guess that's too much to ask of a 50K BTU stove in a drafty house. The woodeater (CL Fireview) is toasting up the family room (uninsulated floors) so we'll be cozy in there, and the pellets will keep the oil furnace off...

Thanks all for your suggestions, support and advice!

Mary

 

[MarkF48]

Mary,

I looked back at the thread where you had the house plan pictured. I'm of the impression the rooms are fairly open to each other and it appears there's a stairway. Does the stairway lead to upstairs rooms and if so, what kind of temps are the upstairs rooms seeing? Is a lot of your heat possibly going upstairs?
I have an XXV in the living room of my old farmhouse, which may be in some ways similar to what you have. The living room is about 13'x20' with a stairway to the upstairs. The XXV maintains about 68-69 deg in the living room (about 30 deg outside temp) with the stove set to "Room Temp". Adjacent to the living room is a dining room through an entry way about 5' wide. The dining room runs about 63-65 deg with the aid of a small fan mounted in the entry way from the living room. My kitchen is off the dining room through a normal doorway and is about 61-62 deg with just the pellet stove running. The kitchen has a coal stove that I use when the temps stay down around the 30 deg area or below. The second floor upstairs runs about 60 degs which is comfortable for sleeping. It's a farmhouse that was built back around the mid 1800's and I've insulated and sealed much of the upstairs of the house, but I think some infiltration of cold air comes from the cellar through cracks and seams in the wide pine board flooring and a cellar door that has a sizable gap on the bottom. My stone foundation cellar is about 45 deg with the pellet stove heating the upstairs.
If your library has any doors that can be shut off as an experiment to see if the stove can build some heat in the room, it might be worth a try. Window shades have helped us retain heat during the night. Our kids are grown and moved out, so doors aren't opening every 15 minutes.

I haven't kept good track, but I think I'm using about 1 to 1.5 bags of pellets a day. Started the stove about mid November and to date have used about 77 bags.