Harman XXV rattle from top of stove

[craigsward]

I had my hopper replaced last season and since then i have had a rattle in particular when the auger is turning and or fan is cranking. I located the rattle and it appears to be coming from the top of the stove. When i weight the top of the stove it goes away. I'm sick of the noise and really woudl like to fix this rather than placing heavy objects on the stove for another season.
I noticed when i pull on the cast iron top there is a little play. I assume the tech had to remove this to put in a new hopper, and i remember him saying it was a very invasive job and he would never do it again. Glad i was the gunea pig.... Anyway there are four bolts that face down to the floor. You can see the nuts by looking through the holes on the side of the stove. The problem is a 10mm wrench will not fit and a 10mm socket with a 1/4" pivoting head ratchet/breaker bar will also not fit in there to get at the nuts. Any ideas on how to get at these nuts?

 

[kykel]

Is it possible that the nuts are welded or attached to the body some how. Try turning the bolt and see if the nut turns with it.

 

[Delta-T]

I think you'd have to remove the sides to get to those nuts (no fun at all IMO). Is it the whole top vibrating or is it the glass on the hopper lid? The top is pretty heavy on its own so I wouldn't think it would vibrate all that much. there shoudn't be any play in the body if you lift up on the top.

 

[DAKSY]

There are NO metric fasteners used on the XXV.
Those are 1/4-20 bolts/screws & they have 7/16 heads.
An 11mm socket will work tho - IF you can get it in there...
(10mm = .3937" ; 7/16" = .4375 ; 11mm = .4331)
Generally, deep sockets tend to be a little smaller on the OD...
Did you try a 7/16" nut driver? You may have to grind the OD to get it in there...

 

[craigsward]

Yeah its definitly the top. And i don't have access to the bolt heads, only the nuts.
Thanks for letting me know its 7/16. For some reason i couldn't get that on there, but the 11mm worked. I got the rear nuts by going from underneath the stove and using a bunch of 1/4" ratchet extensions, and then one flexible ratchet extension. The front nuts are unfortunately blocked from underneath, and of course those are the ones that could really use the tightening. I looked at possibly removing the sides and i don't think its possible. It seems like the frame is welded together, however i could be wrong and just not seeing the bolts/screws.

 

[Delta-T]

if you can find no other way....you can remove the sides. 3 bolts per side, 2 along the bottom, 1 you can access from the ash pan area (on each side) then behind the rear panels about the same height as the front ones, but in the back, and the 3rd bolt is about dead center of the side panel in the middle of the leaf castings (no fun to reach for).

 

[Delta-T]

be very careful...prop the unit up from underneath if you do this...the sides can fall and the legs can/will break if you're not prepared (speaking from experience...unfortunately).

 

[craigsward]

Well I definitely found the rattle source. When the tech replaced the hopper he forgot to put the nut on one of the 4 bolts. It was the hardest one to see and get at. Not to mention 2 of the others were loose. I finally managed to get at these bolts with a bunch of extensions and a pivoting socket adapter. Should be good to burn now.

 

[gbreda]

Congratulations on finishing their job This tech said that he would never do this again, he didnt do it this time either. If you ever experience a gummy stove syndrome, try and get another dealer to do the work.

ETA: People complain that there is no work, it really irritates me when someone has a decent job, but does not want to actually work. Being a former mechanic, I can sympathize that sometimes you want to strangle the engineer that put a device together, but that is not a reason for sloppy work.

Enjoy the silence

 

[Lousyweather]

Congratulations on finishing their job This tech said that he would never do this again, he didnt do it this time either. If you ever experience a gummy stove syndrome, try and get another dealer to do the work.

ETA: People complain that there is no work, it really irritates me when someone has a decent job, but does not want to actually work. Being a former mechanic, I can sympathize that sometimes you want to strangle the engineer that put a device together, but that is not a reason for sloppy work.

Enjoy the silence

good on you for finding and correcting the problem! there is plenty of work, but the problem is noone is willing to pay for it. As for another dealer doing the gumy stove work, be prepared to pay for it. The selling dealer is required by HHT to do the warrantee work. In the case of gummy stove, and as the OP can probably now attest, replacing an auger weldment on an XXV is a BIG job......usually requires de-installing and transporting the unit back to the shop, doing the work, then re-installing it. FWIW, when we have had to do this work for folks (replace an auger weldment for a stove we didnt sell), we charge $500 for that......the parts are usually covered under warrantee. Heck, its hard enough servicing our own customers, let alone my competition, given the amoutn paid for warrantee work.

 

[mepellet]

Well I definitely found the rattle source. When the tech replaced the hopper he forgot to put the nut on one of the 4 bolts. It was the hardest one to see and get at. Not to mention 2 of the others were loose. I finally managed to get at these bolts with a bunch of extensions and a pivoting socket adapter. Should be good to burn now.

Nice work!

 

[kykel]

Hope you give the dealer a call to let them know what happened. Glad you fixed the problem. Enjoy the heat.

 

[gbreda]

good on you for finding and correcting the problem! there is plenty of work, but the problem is noone is willing to pay for it. As for another dealer doing the gumy stove work, be prepared to pay for it. The selling dealer is required by HHT to do the warrantee work. In the case of gummy stove, and as the OP can probably now attest, replacing an auger weldment on an XXV is a BIG job......usually requires de-installing and transporting the unit back to the shop, doing the work, then re-installing it. FWIW, when we have had to do this work for folks (replace an auger weldment for a stove we didnt sell), we charge $500 for that......the parts are usually covered under warrantee. Heck, its hard enough servicing our own customers, let alone my competition, given the amoutn paid for warrantee work.

I understand that the selling dealer is required to do warranty work, but does that mean that sloppy work is acceptable? Just because it is difficult, does not excuse missing 3 of 4 attaching bolts. What a surprise that the hardest one was left out completely. The warranty payment is not the fault or the concern of the end user; it is between the dealer and the manufacturer.

I guess that I am saying that if a unit is out of warranty then he may want to find another dealer to do the work correctly. Otherwise, I guess he is stuck with a dealer with at least 1 "less than" technician. Request a different technician and let them know why. The OP paid good money for a top rated brand, the customer should not settle for this kind of work.

Maybe I am a dying breed that expects top performance for top dollar. If I buy cheap, then I expect cheap and that end result is on me. Not so in this case.

getting off my soap box now

 

[mepellet]

I understand that the selling dealer is required to do warranty work, but does that mean that sloppy work is acceptable? Just because it is difficult, does not excuse missing 3 of 4 attaching bolts. What a surprise that the hardest one was left out completely. The warranty payment is not the fault or the concern of the end user; it is between the dealer and the manufacturer.

I guess that I am saying that if a unit is out of warranty then he may want to find another dealer to do the work correctly. Otherwise, I guess he is stuck with a dealer with at least 1 "less than" technician. Request a different technician and let them know why. The OP paid good money for a top rated brand, the customer should not settle for this kind of work.

Maybe I am a dying breed that expects top performance for top dollar. If I buy cheap, then I expect cheap and that end result is on me. Not so in this case.

getting off my soap box now

Agreed.

 

[DAKSY]

Agreed.

+2...

 

[Lousyweather]

I understand that the selling dealer is required to do warranty work, but does that mean that sloppy work is acceptable? Just because it is difficult, does not excuse missing 3 of 4 attaching bolts. What a surprise that the hardest one was left out completely. The warranty payment is not the fault or the concern of the end user; it is between the dealer and the manufacturer.

I guess that I am saying that if a unit is out of warranty then he may want to find another dealer to do the work correctly. Otherwise, I guess he is stuck with a dealer with at least 1 "less than" technician. Request a different technician and let them know why. The OP paid good money for a top rated brand, the customer should not settle for this kind of work.

Maybe I am a dying breed that expects top performance for top dollar. If I buy cheap, then I expect cheap and that end result is on me. Not so in this case.

getting off my soap box now

lol- not saying you should accept shoddy work at all. Nor that its acceptable. And yea, that unit IS near the top of the list for being difficult to tear down and put back together......although I never said it was acceptable at all. Rather, my point is dont expect another dealer to perform warrantee work on a stove you decided to purchase elsewhere. When you buy the stove, you buy the warrantee as well, with all its verbeage and idiosynchracies. He isnt "stuck" with anything other than the dealer he chose in the first place. Definitely should let the dealer know though, as they have a vested interest here....costs a considerable sum of money in the middle of the season to send a tech out another time to fix an issue that should have never happened in the first place.

 

[craigsward]

I have put a few bags through the stove now and love the silence. I'm always good about doing thorough cleanings on my stove and at least scraping every time I fire it up, but I did the vacuum method for the first time and that really helped getting rid of my lazy flame. Not to mention some other mystery noises have vanished since a thorough cleaning and retorqueing just about every bolt on the stove.