Has anyone ever wired a....

[infinitymike]

Has anyone ever wired a monitoring station. What I mean is a place, other than the boiler room, that I can monitor the system.
What I'm thinking is a board that will tell me if the wood burner or oil burner is running, what the supply and return temps are and what zones are calling.

My situation is my oil burner is in the basement along with the Argo control box(which has lights that go one when a zone is on), the wood burner is out in the garage(which has a light go on when it is running), one t-stat is on the 1st floor and the other is on the second(which say "heat on" when the zone is on), I plan on getting the digital thermometers for supply and returns for each burner like I saw Clarkbug use. Also I have a RIB relay at each burner that has a light come on when the water temp is higher than the low limit setting. So I know which unit will be heating the water.

I am staying in good shape monitoring the system LOL. I either go in the back room where I can look through the window and see in the side garage door and see if the light is on for the WG. If it is, then I go to the other room, where I can see the chimney to see if is gasifing, then either I go to the basement to see if either zone is calling and if the relay light is on which would tell me the wood gun water is not high enough and the oil will go on, or I go to the t-stat on the first floor or run up stairs to the other t-stat to see if they are calling(only if I didnt go to the basement.)

Soooo, how could I wire up a board that I can keep in one room and see everything at once.

It would also help my wife know when to reload when I'm at work.

Hopefully I made sense and you understand what I'm looking to do. hh:

 

[woodsmaster]

Ya I Know At least a couple have. I think If youlook at nofossils signature there is a link to his systym info. with current
temps and much more. there are also alarms you can get that will call you if you go above or below a set temp.

 

[hobbyheater]

I am staying in good shape monitoring the system LOL.

%-P When you need a rest, go cut some wood. :lol:

 

[infinitymike]

I am staying in good shape monitoring the system LOL.

%-P When you need a rest, go cut some wood. :lol:

Oh I do that in between going outside to the garage to check the water temp and everything else.

I am consumed with the system and am constantly running around the house checking things, then go outside and hand split a few logs then back inside to the computer to do some "hearthing" then start all over.

Maybe thats why I just ran out of work (I own my own home construction business) I'm not focussing on my business and getting more work.
Instead of shaking the proverbial trees, I am shaking the real thing LOL

 

[willworkforwood]

Here's something for you to consider. You're a newer boiler owner, and are still somewhat early on the learning curve. I know exactly what you are trying to do, because (running without storage), I do the same thing all the time. Just like you, right after my install I can recall lots of uncertainty about how much and often to load. But now, in the 4th year, it's become an automatic drill, driven by only one thing - the current and soon-to-be Weather. At any moment in time I know exactly what the temps and wind are going to be for the upcoming 12-24 hours, and adjust the fire size and loading frequency based on that alone. We know that a WB is not on-demand, and it's all about not allowing it fall way behind. Right now you're trying to calculate the effect of your zones coming on, and how they will affect the boiler. What I'm suggesting is that, probably by next year at this time, you're not going to be needing to check that anymore - you'll know how you need to load based on prior experience (and also what settings to change, if that's applicable to the Wood Gun). Not saying it's not a good idea to know temps at key points - I have lots of "frothing" thermometers on various pipes, and have learned much about my system by having those temps available. But, I don't need them to tell me how to load - the Weather forecast is all I need. So, if a full monitoring system is going to take lots of time and $$, maybe you could scale it back a bit and skip some of the bells and whistles. You mentioned the oil coming on if the wood temp falls too low, and I'm guessing that's because you've miscalculated short on the wood load. The oil burner hurts my ears, and is set so low that it never comes on. That's another change you'll most likely see in your place with a bit more operating experience ;-)

 

[huffdawg]

Heres a link that Barkeater posted on a thread a few days back.

(broken link removed to http://www.monnit.com/products/wireless-sensors/temperature.php)

Huff

 

[jebatty]

I've done two, first my own and second at Deep Portage. Both are in the building that houses the boiler system. In addition I have installed neon indicator lights on all circulators that light when the circulator is "on." With your multiple locations, wiring or wireless may be more complex, but worth the effort. With an appropriate monitoring panel, you can tell at a glance all key indicators of system performance. Incidentally, both systems include sensors and wiring for data logging all monitoring locations.

 

[huffdawg]

What are you usung for sensor wiring Jim? Cat5e.

Huff

 

[Donl]

This is how I monitor my system.

http://www.nofossil.org

 

[taxidermist]

This is how I monitor my system.

http://www.springbrookfarm.ca:7800/ctlpanel.html

WOW Don thats cool!

Rob

 

[infinitymike]

This is how I monitor my system.

http://www.springbrookfarm.ca:7800/ctlpanel.html

Do you have actual thermometers at each location? Or are they in central location?

Do you have a computer program monitoring everything?

 

[Donl]

This is how I monitor my system.

http://www.nofossil.org

Do you have actual thermometers at each location? Or are they in central location?

Do you have a computer program monitoring everything?

Go to this web site : http://www.nofossil.org/

It will explain it all. I studied the information on this site and built everything myself. The code and design developed by NOFOSSIL is extremely reliable and well thought out. There is not much you can not do with this wonderful system.

 

[infinitymike]

jebetty,

Thats pretty much what I am looking to do.
Those are the digital thermometers from Sure Electronics that Clarkbug installed, he said he got the idea from you.

I think running the wires for all the thermometers is relatively easy.
At first it seemed overwhelming and confusing.
All I need is a picture and the thoughts become very clear in my mind.

Same thing happened when I hired someone to hook up the two boilers with a primary/secondary loop.
When he was done, I looked at it, and said damn I could have done that. Not minimizing his talent, but it was so much simpler than I thought.
I asked him 3 times, saying I would pay him for a detailed layout design and I would do all the mechanical installation.
He kept saying, no, he doesn't work that way. Oh well its done.

But thanks for your picture, now I can move forward.

 

[jebatty]

What are you usung for sensor wiring Jim? Cat5e.

Cat 5e it is. The meters can share the 5VDC and GND wires but each needs it separate Data wire. You might need to use a pair of wires for each of these, depending on the distance. Also need a 12-24VDC power supply.

 

[HeatFarmer]

I am consumed with the system and am constantly running around the house checking things, then go outside and hand split a few logs then back inside to the computer to do some "hearthing" then start all over.

LOL, I've been pretty much the same way this first week since my system is going. I've been able to back off a bit on it since Sat when I achieved 195º in my storage....... It took some tweaking and some monitoring and graphing temps to know what I was doing in the boiler room had x, y or z results in the house. I have probes on my HX in & out and the top and bottom of the tank, plus a sensor which gives me an outdoor temp and top of tank temp right in the kitchen do I can see what's up. I wish it would give me a room temp also, but oh well.....

Between the outdoor temp and the tank top temp and the weather forecast I've been able to do pretty well with knowing how to load the boiler. It warmed up to the mid 30's yesterday and over 46º today, so I backed way off on my firing schedule. I have now learned that if there is minimum load on storage I can fire the boiler late afternoon and still get to storage peak before bedtime. If it is in the teens or minus numbers then I have to run the boiler from the time I get up, all day to meet demand and charge storage enough to carry over night. Once I get my slabs on-linen and don't have to worry about keeping the boiler room warm via running the boiler so much I can back off on the night firings.

The other thing having the tank temp in the kitchen--via a tekmar controller--does is I can see without going to the boiler room if there is a problem. I am supposed to be charging storage right now. If the temp goes down or isn't going up very well, then I know there is an issue in the boiler.....did I forget to pull the damper? Is there bridging? or did the boiler "Fuel" out on me and I need to re-load, or shift some coals around.

Like others have said, it is a HUGE learning curve, but great exercise all the same!

 

[HeatFarmer]

jebetty,

Thats pretty much what I am looking to do.
Those are the digital thermometers from Sure Electronics that Clarkbug installed, he said he got the idea from you.

I think running the wires for all the thermometers is relatively easy.
At first it seemed overwhelming and confusing.
All I need is a picture and the thoughts become very clear in my mind.

Same thing happened when I hired someone to hook up the two boilers with a primary/secondary loop.
When he was done, I looked at it, and said damn I could have done that. Not minimizing his talent, but it was so much simpler than I thought.
I asked him 3 times, saying I would pay him for a detailed layout design and I would do all the mechanical installation.
He kept saying, no, he doesn't work that way. Oh well its done.

But thanks for your picture, now I can move forward.

Have you found a way to extend the probe for Sure thermometers? I tried with 18awg & Cat5e, but could not get beyond the 6m length the probes came with. I was really hoping to mount my tank thermometers somewhere other than near the tank so I wasn't yarding up & down the cellar steps to monitor it that often....I've even toyed with getting a wifi camera for the boiler room & storage areas so I can see what's going on from my iPhone while I'm elsewhere....

 

[ewdudley]

I'm having pretty good luck with a portable monitor, tells time too!

 

[ewdudley]

Have you found a way to extend the probe for Sure thermometers? I tried with 18awg & Cat5e, but could not get beyond the 6m length the probes came with. .

I think they vary by batch. I've had some that worked fine at ten meters and others I had to add a one or two k ohm pull-up resistor from Vdd to DQ to get them to work at ten meters.

--ewd

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/72747/

 

[jebatty]

Have you found a way to extend the probe for Sure thermometers? I tried with 18awg & Cat5e, but could not get beyond the 6m length the probes came with.

My longest run so far is about 35' without issue. Are you using the DS18B20 sensors? or another sensor? Mine came with about a 1 meter cable. I cut it in half and spliced in the Cat5e to run to the panel, then spliced that into the remaining half of the cable with the plug to the meter. What is the voltage of your DC power supply? I'm using a 16VDC supply. I found some of the sensors to be defective and/or intermittent, which was very frustrating until I determined that the sensors were defective. You also can buy DS18B20 IC's, about $1.25 each, and use those instead, with a little more work to splice in the cable to the IC.

 

[infinitymike]

So hopefully my wire splicing will be as easy as yours, Jim and I don't run into Elliot's problems.
I don't even know what a "one or two k ohm pull-up resistor from Vdd to DQ" is! :red:

My WG is in the garage which is adjacent to the room I would want to monitor it from anyway.
I would need about a 10 foot run of wire.
The oil burner and the primary/secondary loop is in the basement on the opposite end of the house,
thats going to need about a 60 feet run of wire. Can I go that far? Or do I even really need to know whats going on there anyway.
As long as the WG is up to temp, who give a hoot what the oil is doing, it should be nothing anyway right?!

Does Sure Electronics sell a probe that can handle stack temps?
If so, could I put into the center of the stack like my Condar thermometer?

Is a wall wart just another name for a plug transformer from some old electronic device? Like a cell phone charger or a portable radio?
How many meters can you run off of one wall wart?

 

[infinitymike]

I'm having pretty good luck with a portable monitor, tells time too!

Who makes that one and where did you get it?

 

[ewdudley]

I'm having pretty good luck with a portable monitor, tells time too!

Who makes that one and where did you get it?

Was just trying to be a little cute, that's just a clock with a temperature display.

The point being that a year from now when you've got it all sorted out, and the jet stream is pounding you from one side, and a Nor'easter is pounding you from the other, you'll be kicked back in a nice warm living room and you won't need much in the way of monitors to know the old WG is doing its job!

Cheers --ewd

 

[infinitymike]

I'm having pretty good luck with a portable monitor, tells time too!

Who makes that one and where did you get it?

Was just trying to be a little cute, that's just a clock with a temperature display.

The point being that a year from now when you've got it all sorted out, and the jet stream is pounding you from one side, and a Nor'easter is pounding you from the other, you'll be kicked back in a nice warm living room and you won't need much in the way of monitors to know the old WG is doing its job!

Cheers --ewd

Damn I thought that was what it was but I fell for it anyway! :-S

 

[jebatty]

I don’t even know what a “one or two k ohm pull-up resistor from Vdd to DQ†is!

... and I don't use them. As best as I know the DS18B20 can be operated in parasitic mode using only two wires, not three, and then the pull-up resistor (often 4.7k ohm) is used. I run three wires: Gnd, Data, and 5VDC to each sensor, and have had no distance problem yet, but I don't know about 60 feet. You might have to use a heavier gauge wire than Cat5e, but as I mentioned, I have used a twisted pair for each of the three lines.

Does Sure Electronics sell a probe that can handle stack temps?

I don't believe a DS18B20 can be used at that high temperature. The DS18B20 is an IC, looks like a transistor. I use a K-Type probe to the center of the stack with a K-Type digital panel meter.

Is a wall wart just another name for a plug transformer from some old electronic device? ... How many meters can you run off of one wall wart?

The first I saw that term was on one of the posts on this forum. I would say yes. The meters provide the 5VDC but the meters require 12-24VDC to power them. I'm using a 16VDC on the panel to power 16 of the 18 panel meters. Just make sure that the wall wart is rated a sufficient current to handle the number of meters you want to power.

 

[ewdudley]

I don’t even know what a “one or two k ohm pull-up resistor from Vdd to DQ†is!

... and I don't use them. As best as I know the DS18B20 can be operated in parasitic mode using only two wires, not three, and then the pull-up resistor (often 4.7k ohm) is used. I run three wires: Gnd, Data, and 5VDC to each sensor, and have had no distance problem yet, but I don't know about 60 feet. .

Yes, I've seen that some units have no problem with ten meters. Others do have a problem. There is no reason to doubt that all you have ever seen is units that don't have a problem.

I've had a single sensor with a ten meter lead on the bench connected alternatively to two such differing units and the scope shows that one unit will meet the datasheet timing requirements and the other will not. Without a schematic of the Sure units' signaling circuitry or deeper investigation, the ohmage needed to cure the timing problem is trial and error. I've had one, two, and five k ohm work fine. YMMV.

--ewd