Help Choosing First Wood Stove

[datheurer]

Hi Everybody,

I was wondering if I could get some recommendations for a wood stove. This will be my 1st wood stove so I want something easy to operate and reliable. It will be my main source of heat in Michigan winters. I live in a 1300sq ft ranch style home (not counting basement) and the stove will be in the basement. I can cut vents in the floor if needed. I have a 20 ft chimney (6x10) that an old Schrader wood stove is hooked into now with 8 inch double and triple insulated pipe, but I need to install a chimney liner as the flue tiles need repaired. The Schrader has no draft issues whatsoever but is old and I'd like a stove with glass doors. My budget is about $1500ish and I'm open to lightly used stoves as well. I was very interested in the Englander 30NCH but can't find it in stock anywhere! I'll be burning mainly seasoned Ash.
My main questions are:
1) What brand and model wood stove would you recommend being reliable, easy to operate, relatively low maintenance costs?
2) Does the chimney liner need to be insulated?
3) How many square feet should the stove be rated for since it's in the basement?
4) Can I go from a 6inch stove flue to 8 inch?

I know this is a lot of info to ask, so any advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[WoodBurnerInWI]

Welcome to the forums!

Good choice on looking into the Englander stoves. By and large the best bang for your buck on the market. This was the stove I nearly bought. It is odd that it is out of stock, I just checked Home Depot's website and they don't seem to be able to ship the 30-NCH. Wouldn't be surprised if the company is having issues sourcing material due to the Covid crisis.

As to answering your questions:

1) What brand and model wood stove would you recommend being reliable, easy to operate, relatively low maintenance costs?

Besides Englander, I would also look at options from Lopi, Jotul, Pacific Energy and Harmon. Not 100% sure if those makers offer units in your price range but you may be able to score a deal on a pre EPA 2020 complaint model. Or maybe even get a deal from a dealer looking to offload inventory during the crisis. If anyone near you is open, all our dealers and installers are closed here in the Madison area.


2) Does the chimney liner need to be insulated?

Usually yes but not always needed. Would depend on the specifics of your set up.


3) How many square feet should the stove be rated for since it's in the basement?

Always go for the biggest stove you can get. It's easy to make small fires in a big firebox but not other way around.


4) Can I go from a 6inch stove flue to 8 inch?

Usually its the other way around (like going from a 8 inch to a 6 inch flue) but I would say there should be pieces in a chimney set up that would allow you to do it. Some of the people here who are more experienced with chimneys would know more about such parts.

 

[datheurer]

Thanks for the info! I also just found a pacific Energy super 27 lightly used for $1,000. However it’s only rated for 2,000 sq ft and I wasn’t sure if that is enough. Like you said I would rather be high than too small

 

[begreen]

Are the basement walls insulated? If not, they will soak up heat like a sponge and a big stove will be required. Uninsulated walls can soak up about a third of the heat or one cord in three burned! If the walls are or will be insulated then the PE may do the job depending on how well the heat gets upstairs. Is there a stairwell near the stove location? How well has the old Schrader worked out other than eating up a lot of wood?

If buying new, look at Drolet stoves like an Austral or Myriad II, or an HT3000. They are large and good heaters.

 

[kborndale]

Any stove you get will disappoint you next winter if you don't already have a few cords of wood cut and split. You say you will be burning seasoned ash, what is your definition of seasoned?

 

[datheurer]

Are the basement walls insulated? If not, they will soak up heat like a sponge and a big stove will be required. Uninsulated walls can soak up about a third of the heat or one cord in three burned! If the walls are or will be insulated then the PE may do the job depending on how well the heat gets upstairs. Is there a stairwell near the stove location? How well has the old Schrader worked out other than eating up a lot of wood?

If buying new, look at Drolet stoves like an Austral or Myriad II, or an HT3000. They are large and good heaters.

No the basement walls are not insulated! I could do that. The stairway is close to the stove. The Schrader honestly works pretty good. Gets very hot very fast and still have hot coals in the morning. I just don’t like not being able to watch the fire. I’ll look into the Drolet stoves.. thank you

 

[datheurer]

Any stove you get will disappoint you next winter if you don't already have a few cords of wood cut and split. You say you will be burning seasoned ash, what is your definition of seasoned?

I’ve got about 2-3 cords split and stacked in my lean-to over the past few weeks due to the lockdown here. It was all dead ash that should dry out all summer. I guess I’m not sure how old the new stoves like the wood to be

 

[Mech e]

I’ve got about 2-3 chords split and stacked in my lean-to over the past few weeks due to the lockdown here. It was all dead ash that should dry out all summer. I guess I’m not sure how old the new stoves like the wood to be

Get yourself a moisture meter and burn wood under 20%.

 

[moresnow]

Another vote for Drolet . Research the HT2000 and HT3000 (newer model) here. Its worth checking into. 6" insulated would be my opinion on the liner. A buddy of mine is heating a similar home from a uninsulated basement with the HT2000. He does have his stairway door open. Works very well. Nice long burn times with tons of heat output.

 

[kennyp2339]

@datheurer I own about the same size home with a stove in the basement also, living in NWNJ we get some pretty cold weather during the winter, not uncommon for a few week shots of near zero temps at night and highs in the low teens, generally though we average out lows in the teens, highs in the mid 20's.
The best advice with heating from the basement is to go with a bigger stove, the closer to 3cuft the better, look into the drolet ht3000, they seem to be the best bang for the dollar as far has big firebox, being epa 2020 certified and build quality. Try to stay away from stoves built in china and rebranded to a us company, to many fluctuations in build / material quality.
Cutting vents in the floor does not work as many think, its best to cut a few cold air returns in the corners of the stove room to funnel cold air from upstairs main living floor to the stove room, these returns generally are at least 16"x16" with fusible link floor grill and have a wooden shroud that extends a foot past the actual floor joist. The little 4"x10" register cuts in multiple locations do absolutely nothing and are unsafe incase of fire. The stairway will function as a direct path for heat to travel up as the cold air sinks through the return into the basement.
Even with all this "help" from returns, the heating isn't as efficient as having a stove in the actual living space, you will be able to amplify results though by insulating the concrete basement walls. Uninsulated concrete walls absorb up to 1/3 the heat a stove produces, so if you burn 3 cords a year, 1 full cord is being reserved just to the concrete then into the earth.

 

[MAD MARK]

Does anyone have exact links to the "uninsulated basement absorbs 1/3 heat" statement being field tested.

I believe it to be true and find 1/3 to be low. I'd like to read and see actual data.

 

[Mech e]

Does anyone have exact links to the "uninsulated basement absorbs 1/3 heat" statement being field tested.

I believe it to be true and find 1/3 to be low. I'd like to read and see actual data.

It really depends on the wood stove design. A stove without heat shields will radiate more. In my experience, this design would yield closer to 50-50 between radiation and convection heat transfer. A stove with side and rear shields could very well be closer to a 30-70 split. Would need to run some numbers to confirm.

 

[begreen]

The Drolet Austral II or Baltic II is a better value if the decision is cost-oriented. They both have a very big 3.4 cu ft firebox. The difference being that the Austral II has no side shields and therefore is much more radiant. In this circumstance without wall insulation, the more convective Baltic II is a better choice.

 

[datheurer]

The Drolet Austral II or Baltic II is a better value if the decision is cost-oriented. They both have a very big 3.4 cu ft firebox. The difference being that the Austral II has no side shields and therefore is much more radiant. In this circumstance without wall insulation, the more convective Baltic II is a better choice.

Would you recommend the Baltic II over the ht 3000? Same price at myfireplaceproducts.com

 

[jetsam]

Does anyone have exact links to the "uninsulated basement absorbs 1/3 heat" statement being field tested.

I believe it to be true and find 1/3 to be low. I'd like to read and see actual data.

Well, every exposed masonry wall and floor is probably an infinite heatsink. Exterior ones certainly are.

Let's say it's a steel stove and 75% of what it puts out is radiant, and 100% of the surfaces that get radiated onto are uninsulated masonry. I would think that it's reasonable to guess that this hypotherical stove loses ~90% of its heat output, since a lot of its convective output is also lost.

In a more realistic situation, things are murkier. Maybe the stove is exposed to only one exterior wall. Maybe there's a heat shield on the rear of the stove, reducing heat lost to that wall. Maybe there are some rugs insulating the floor somewhat. Maybe one of the walls is built on a sill plate, and one is direct to the slab. I don't think you can come up with one percentage and say that a basement stove loses that amount- you're just making stuff up at that point.

"We don't know your situation, but you're losing lots of heat" sounds like a reasonable generalization, though!

 

[begreen]

Would you recommend the Baltic II over the ht 3000? Same price at myfireplaceproducts.com

That's surprising, I think the HT3000 retails for $250 more in US dollars. It's really your choice. They are both good, big heaters. The HT3000 is a heavier stove and it takes a slightly longer split (22" vs 20")

Their pricing is different from the Drolet website. It might be worth comparing buying it directly from Drolet in Canada. At myfireplace.com also look at the Myriad II if clearances are not an issue. This is the same firebox as the Baltic II, but at a much lower price.

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