Help needed - Englander 25-PVDC

[RRyder]

Long time reader, first time posting. I tried calling Englander for this a few times over the past few weeks and sent two emails, with little help....here goes;

I am having some issues with my new stove, I purchased it in August and installed it about 6-8 weeks ago. Serial # 117166, Manufactured 7/13. I have two stoves in my house, the house being a tri-level. I have a Breckwell P-2000 insert upstairs (approx. 1100 sqft) and just installed this Englander’s in the lower level (600-700sqft). The stove is on a built platform of wood, backer board and tile. The lower level’s foundation walls are roughly 4’ high (concrete) and the rest is 2x4 construction. I ran the exhaust in the correct order away from the wall, ran it up approx. 5’ and out of the house, extending 15” outside. It is 3” pellet vent piping. I have a 2” OAK kit that runs in the same manner..
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Issues;
-Stove does not get as hot as it needs to be for the space it is in. The stove it self seems to be hot enough, but does not throw enough heat for the level.
-I use 1.5-2 bags a day shutting it off from 8am and starting it back up @ 3pm.!! (heat level 3 during the day) (as opposed to 1 bag/24hr non stop upstairs ) We even ran through an entire bag the other night on level 4 from 10pm to 5am when it shut off. I really could not believe we used that many pellets in 7~ hours. I do run it up to 8-9 when I get home in order to get things warm for maybe and hour or two.

-I have huge amounts of chucks/build up on the burn pot that I am scooping out a few times a day. Both stoves are cleaned, brushed, scraped daily. I don't think it is running efficient, the amount of pellets being burned, the lack of heat, etc. If is it and outside air issue, I cannot seem to get any more air to the stove, it is 2” now, would a 3” help out that much?? With the extremely low temps here in New England the past week, the stove would not even fire with the ice cold air coming in. I disconnected the OAK, and it will fire no problem. Strangely with the OAK disconnected it does not use nearly as many pellets!? I have tried sliding the top hopper block off plate either way without any luck.

-From what I read the lower settings are for 1-3 heat settings. I have been trying to heat the level so I haven't even tried heat settings 1-3 for long enough to be able to see if adjustments will do anything. It is just not warm/comfortable.

-There is a high pitch whine coming from the blower motor when on 4-6, sounds like a balance/harmonic sound that is very annoying.

-The second day we used it I opened the door and the gasket had stuck to the stove and pulled off. Annoying but I don't think it is causing the issues I am having, but I guess its a possibility. I did the flame next to the door test to see if the flame was being sucked in,...no leaks...

I have used New England Wood Pellets(1/2”-3/4” long) for the past two years. I have tried a few different brands for this stove to get it to run right ( Lignetics, NE Wood Pellets, Maine Wood Pellets)

I am getting frustrated with trying to get it to run correctly, heat the house and not spend a fortune for 700 sqft.
Please let me know what you think I should do or try. A bag every 6-8 hours is getting outrageous and it is still no where as hot as upstairs.

Thank you in advance for you help.

 

[alltherage]

What are your bottom 3 buttons set at? New England pellets aren't great to begin with but that shouldn't be your problem. My pdvc burns pretty much anything. You will also want to check to veryify that your control board is in mode D.

 

[alltherage]

it is definitely burning too rich. The default settings for the bottom 3 buttons are 6-4-1. You should reset to that to start the troubleshooting process.

 

[RRyder]

The bottom settings are 6-4-1, fluctuating them a little here and there doesn't seem to do anything. I do not go lower than heat/fan setting 4/4 because it simply does not throw enough heat as it is. According to customer service from Englander stoves, they are telling me to set it to mode "c". I have had good luck with NE pellets, my breckwell will heat the house @ 75 all winter on a bag a day, clean and hot.

 

[RRyder]

I honestly say the OAK was making it burn 50-75% more pellets....strange. My insert does not have/need a OAK...

 

[alltherage]

so do you get the big clinkers without the oak? It will burn in mode D or C...C will use more pellets

 

[alltherage]

with some brands of pellets, I've had to burst the burn air...did you try 4-4-1 or something like that?

 

[alltherage]

*increase the burn air I meant

 

[RRyder]

With the OAK the clinkers were massive and heavy. Without the OAK it is much better. Now I maybe wrong, but I thought the adjustments only apply when the heat settings are either 1,2, or 3. Is this true? I really can't bring it down below heat setting 4 (~65-68* F) I gave tried and will try adjusting again. increasing the burn air is numerically up or down? Thank you for the help

 

[RRyder]

It's amazing that I sent a complaint to Englanders about using more pellets than I should be, and they tell me to set it to mode C, using more pellets....

 

[alltherage]

try that mode D and see what happens...it will reduce pellet usage and still produce plenty of heat.. increase the burn air and that will get it burning hotter too. the adjustments apply to heat settings depending on the year the stove was made from what I remember and model as well.

 

[alltherage]

some stoves it would only affect 1 and 2, but newer stoves affect the higher levels too I believe

 

[MaryH]

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-The second day we used it I opened the door and the gasket had stuck to the stove and pulled off. Annoying but I don't think it is causing the issues I am having, but I guess its a possibility. I did the flame next to the door test to see if the flame was being sucked in,...no leaks...
.

Dollar bill test the door gasket - replace if it fails

 

[RRyder]

I will try increasing the air, I was under the assumption these adjustments only affected the lower heat temps. I did check the door seal via a lighter against the door seal method to see if it sucked it un, but I will try the dollar bill method too...thank you for all your help.

 

[RRyder]

just got home and checked the mode setting (stove is cold right now), it is set to D....Should I switch it to C? I don't want to use even more pellets without any heat gains....

 

[chken]

Sounds like you need more air, a 3" OAK can't hurt. I mean a 40lb bag of pellets in 7hrs would mean your stove is putting out 47k btus an hour, and I don't think that size Englander is rated that high. For such a small space, that is half underground should take no heat at all to keep warm.

Having to scoop out the burn pot, just adds to the evidence that the air/fuel mix is not right.

 

[RRyder]

I just tried to fire up the stove, with it being 15* outside right now, the burn pot overfills and barely fires (OAK hooked up), cleared the burn pot, popped off the OAK and it fires great....I don't get it...I know the mix is not right, but not sure what to do now. Mike @ Englanders hasn't returned my emails, there customer support literally tells me to set it C and because they don't see an issue, and everyone here says set it to D...

 

[CladMaster]

Try this......

Perform a Control Board Reset as follows .....

Do this when the stove is cold.
Unplug the stove from the power outlet.

Plug the power lead back in.

You must press and hold the bottom 3 buttons all at the same time within 4 seconds and wait 3 seconds and then release buttons.

Wait 5 - 10 seconds for the F5 readout display to go blank.

Unplug power lead - wait 5 seconds

Setting the Heat Mode
Heat Mode, the default setting is 'd' for the 25-PDVC, but some control boards default to 'A' when a reset is done. Do not run the stove in 'A' or 'b' mode.
Plug power lead back in and press both the up and down blower speed buttons at the same time within 4 - 5 seconds, you should now see a letter (A, b, c or d) in the left digital display under heat range, you need to change this to 'd' or 'c' using the up / down buttons below that readout, once set to 'd' or 'c' wait 10 - 15 seconds then unplug the power again and wait 5 seconds. (Sometimes the mode that you want does not set and defaults back to the mode that it was in before, repeat this step to make sure the mode that you want is set.)

Plug power back in, then set the lower three (3) buttons to read 6 4 1 from left to right.

Clean out the stove and reload with pellets and fire it up. Set the heat range to 2. Set the blower speed to 3 or 4 and then leave the stove alone for 60 - 90 minutes. After 60 - 90 minutes have passed, set the heat and blower to the numbers that you want.

And the OAK is needed on this stove, so re-connect it.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

I just tried to fire up the stove, with it being 15* outside right now, the burn pot overfills and barely fires (OAK hooked up), cleared the burn pot, popped off the OAK and it fires great....I don't get it...I know the mix is not right, but not sure what to do now. Mike @ Englanders hasn't returned my emails, there customer support literally tells me to set it C and because they don't see an issue, and everyone here says set it to D...

It sounds like your OAK is too restrictive. A bigger diameter would help.

 

[RRyder]

I did the board reset a few times over the past couple of weeks. As of now I set it on C. It has a real hard time starting with the oak installed, but I guess it could be restrictive. The kit they give you is pretty cheap, so I could make a new one out of PVC; 2-3"? The downstairs and basement below that is far from air tight, so I thought the stove could run without it...

 

[chken]

I did the board reset a few times over the past couple of weeks. As of now I set it on C. It has a real hard time starting with the oak installed, but I guess it could be restrictive. The kit they give you is pretty cheap, so I could make a new one out of PVC; 2-3"? The downstairs and basement below that is far from air tight, so I thought the stove could run without it...

In theory, it should run, and the fact that it runs better without an OAK implies that the OAK is somehow not doing its job correctly. Have you looked thru it to see if there's something stuck in it? A piece of clear plastic bag?

 

[kenstogie]

With a dirty burn the venting may be somewhat restricted ...... causing a dirty burn...... causing a more restricted rich and dirty burn and so on. not saying its this but is worth making sure your venting is clean. It has always made a difference on my set up. Its kinda like an internal combustion engine fuel/air mixtur sort of thing.

 

[MaryH]

I did the board reset a few times over the past couple of weeks. As of now I set it on C. It has a real hard time starting with the oak installed, but I guess it could be restrictive. The kit they give you is pretty cheap, so I could make a new one out of PVC; 2-3"? The downstairs and basement below that is far from air tight, so I thought the stove could run without it...

If it burns better, without the OAK installed, doesn't it seem to reason, it's an air infiltration, from "somewhere"?

I ran the exhaust in the correct order away from the wall, ran it up approx. 5’ and out of the house, extending 15” outside. It is 3” pellet vent piping

Got a pic of this, as what you describe, is unclear? ....out the stove, slight upward angle, a "tee" up, straight sections, to a termination cap - is that what you have?...or ..."5 feet", up, and out of the house?

 

[small_e_900]

You could put a 10" OAK on the stove and it won't get any more air than a 2" OAK because the 2" size won't be changed in the stove itself.
Make certain that you have no restriction in the OAK.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

You could put a 10" OAK on the stove and it won't get any more air than a 2" OAK because the 2" size won't be changed in the stove itself.
Make certain that you have no restriction in the OAK.

I'm sorry, that is wrong!
Resistance to airflow is a function of diameter, length, and bends. The few inches of small diameter in the stove doesn't have the same effect as several feet of small diameter or even just a few feet with a couple of bends.
It may be fair to say that a 10" is no better than a 4" for say a six foot run, but a 2" six foot run will be too restrictive for many stoves.