Help with Englander stove igniter!!

[p8ntballer789]

Hello,
I have been a happy customer of an englander stove we have purchased. This is our third season using it in NJ. Everythings been great except for one thing... the igniter!!

My THIRD igniter just died... i have tested it using a good old lamp plug and making my own rig. All three don't heat up at all. My question is, why the hell do i need a new igniter constantly? People with Englander and other brands have used the same one for years on end. The stove gets cleaned EVERY night and a very very good cleaning about once a week. Its never neglected. It runs on a thermostat so figure it goes on and off 4-5 times in a 24hr period

I have followed Mikes advice and tips on here, just wanted to say thank you

Is there a cheaper alternative than buying ANOTHER one from Englander? I love the stove and all but buying an igniter every winter seems like somethings wrong

Thanks for any input!

Stove info:
Englander model number: 55-5HPEP
date of purchase: 11/12/10

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Out of curiosity, how long does it take for your stove to ignite?

There are all kinds of cartridge heaters out there, you match up the sizes, wattage, and voltage to select an equivalent one, the only possible gotcha is any special mount that may be on the exisiting unit.

Granger is but one place to start your search.

 

[p8ntballer789]

I would say about 10-12 minutes for it to ignite.

Thank you for the information i appreciate it! There is no special mount on mine, slides in and has an allen key screw to snug it. i know its a 300watt igniter i will have to measure it and look. Are aftermarket ones ok to use? I wanted to try aftermarket to see if i have better luck. My only concern was that i saw somebody had the igniter split, literally.

 

[imacman]

Hopefully at least the very first one that died on you was under warranty, and Englander replaced it.

Question: doesn't the EP model have the ability to do HI-Lo along with On-Off?

Once colder weather sets in (Dec.), most people that have stoves that will do both change over to Hi-Lo.....saves a LOT of wear & tear on the ignitor. Starting 4-5 times a day ALL winter is a LOT of cycles.

I don't go back to on-off until the outside temps get to upper 40's consistently.

As Smokey said, you should be able to get one much cheaper from a place like Grainger....their called "cartridge heaters" there. The Tempco units they sell are the same company that Englander uses for theirs.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I would say about 10-12 minutes for it to ignite.

Thank you for the information i appreciate it! There is no special mount on mine, slides in and has an allen key screw to snug it. i know its a 300watt igniter i will have to measure it and look. Are aftermarket ones ok to use? I wanted to try aftermarket to see if i have better luck. My only concern was that i saw somebody had the igniter split, literally.

They are all third party and any of them can fail in a number of different ways. Even the ones from England can fail in more than one way.

About that ignite time seems a little long to me, make certain the igniter isn't up too close to the burn pot, you want a good air flow the entire length of the igniter to get a fast ignition.

It is the superheated air flow from the system that does the lighting and you do not want the igniter itself blocking the air stream as it will take longer and in some cases fail to ignite in time.

Some of the cartridge heaters get that up to 1400 and the heat really needs to leave the tube the igniter sits in, anything that gets in the way reduces the life of the igniter.

 

[imacman]

Good points Smokey.

To the OP: How long does it take to get fire with the new ignitor?

 

[slvrblkk]

Hopefully at least the very first one that died on you was under warranty, and Englander replaced it.

Question: doesn't the EP model have the ability to do HI-Lo along with On-Off?

Once colder weather sets in (Dec.), most people that have stoves that will do both change over to Hi-Lo.....saves a LOT of wear & tear on the ignitor. Starting 4-5 times a day ALL winter is a LOT of cycles.

I don't go back to on-off until the outside temps get to upper 40's consistently.

As Smokey said, you should be able to get one much cheaper from a place like Grainger....their called "cartridge heaters" there. The Tempco units they sell are the same company that Englander uses for theirs.

Yes

 

[p8ntballer789]

Hopefully at least the very first one that died on you was under warranty, and Englander replaced it.

Question: doesn't the EP model have the ability to do HI-Lo along with On-Off?

Once colder weather sets in (Dec.), most people that have stoves that will do both change over to Hi-Lo.....saves a LOT of wear & tear on the ignitor. Starting 4-5 times a day ALL winter is a LOT of cycles.

I don't go back to on-off until the outside temps get to upper 40's consistently.

As Smokey said, you should be able to get one much cheaper from a place like Grainger....their called "cartridge heaters" there. The Tempco units they sell are the same company that Englander uses for theirs.

The first one was replaced a few days before the warranty ended. The other two i had to purchase.

I looked it up and it does have that setting, sorry to sound like a noob but the stove will constantly stay on in this setting? I read this page: (broken link removed) and i dont really understand it wouldnt it wear down the parts faster being constantly on and use a ton more pellets?

 

[p8ntballer789]

They are all third party and any of them can fail in a number of different ways. Even the ones from England can fail in more than one way.

About that ignite time seems a little long to me, make certain the igniter isn't up too close to the burn pot, you want a good air flow the entire length of the igniter to get a fast ignition.

It is the superheated air flow from the system that does the lighting and you do not want the igniter itself blocking the air stream as it will take longer and in some cases fail to ignite in time.

Some of the cartridge heaters get that up to 1400 and the heat really needs to leave the tube the igniter sits in, anything that gets in the way reduces the life of the igniter.

When i purchase a new igniter i will back it out a tiny bit to make sure i do not restrict airflow.

Thank you to everyone this is VERY helpful!!

On the three igniters i have they are all TEMPCO HDC15214 trying to find the same one online

ALSO, i have the stove on the wireless thermostat thing. I usually have it set on "thermo" and 72 degrees (73 on cold nights). Idk if that effects the High/Low feature

 

[imacman]

Don't worry about the Tempco #....it's probably a number just for Englander. I tried the same thing and called Tempco to buy one, and they don't stock them.....only large quantities get made for Englander when they need them.

If you take the measurements off your old one, just go to Grainger and match it up....120v, wattage, diameter, and length. It will work the same, and much cheaper.

As for the Hi-Lo, when the stat temp gets satisfied by the stove, it switches off and the stove goes into low fire condition. Yes, the stove stays burning all the time unless you press the Off button. Most people that have stats that have a swing adjustment usually make it only cycle after the temp moves 2-3 degrees one way or the other.

 

[the pony boy]

im on my third one as well.in about 16months. i usually have it set to on-off but i think next winter i will do hi low for colder days.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

If you want to go really cheap, you can get a cartridge heater on ebay for about $5 postpaid. you would have to do lead termination, but it's an alternative.

 

[p8ntballer789]

im on my third one as well.in about 16months. i usually have it set to on-off but i think next winter i will do hi low for colder days.

Your on the same boat as me haha. Im trying the high/low setting as we speak, its 22 degrees currently.

If you want to go really cheap, you can get a cartridge heater on ebay for about $5 postpaid. you would have to do lead termination, but it's an alternative.

Do you have any experience with these cheap ones? Just looked at them and i have no problems soldering/adding leads. Thanks for the info!

Don't worry about the Tempco #....it's probably a number just for Englander. I tried the same thing and called Tempco to buy one, and they don't stock them.....only large quantities get made for Englander when they need them.

If you take the measurements off your old one, just go to Grainger and match it up....120v, wattage, diameter, and length. It will work the same, and much cheaper.

As for the Hi-Lo, when the stat temp gets satisfied by the stove, it switches off and the stove goes into low fire condition. Yes, the stove stays burning all the time unless you press the Off button. Most people that have stats that have a swing adjustment usually make it only cycle after the temp moves 2-3 degrees one way or the other.

Thank you for the info, i tried finding that number and it must be englanders specific, as you stated. I am going to purchase a few from Grainger or possibly ebay if theres any reviews or people having good luck with them.

I am trying the high low setting. The wireless thermostat is set at 73, currently its 75 and i dont see a difference in the blower speed, but the flame in the burn pot is much lower. Do you think it uses alot more pellets?

THANK YOU SO MUCH to everyone who has contributed to my noob and rookie questions. I love my pellet stove and learning all about them from you guys!

 

[imacman]

Yes, I do think it uses a bit more pellets, but when you offset the fact there is very little lag time going to Hi fire from Lo fire, vs. starting cold and having to use the ignitor over & over, I think I'll use the Hi-Lo in the cold months.

 

[woodsman23]

I have a grainger ignitor for 26 bucks and its been working all season long.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Harvey Schneider said: ↑

If you want to go really cheap, you can get a cartridge heater on ebay for about $5 postpaid. you would have to do lead termination, but it's an alternative.!​

​

Do you have any experience with these cheap ones? Just looked at them and i have no problems soldering/adding leads. Thanks for the info!

I have been using one since fall in my PDVC. It seems to work well but, in my workshop, sees less than one cycle per day. The fit is perfect and Ignition is fast.
Don't solder igniter leads, use crimp on splices. The igniter came with 10" leads that I spliced to the old leads.

 

[smwilliamson]

For those of you who are going through igniter on models made post 2006...the weep hole for the igniter air is drilled through the igniter body and in to the air intake stream, if the person doing the drilling is right handed (which most of us are) and has elbows on his arms (most of us do) then you will understand how hard it is to drill through something perfectly straight. If the weep hole was made off center it may be just enough of an angle that it cannot pull the air up in to the igniter area..this causes long delayed starts. BUT...there is a little black metal cap on the igniter housing...pull that off. Now you are getting air from BOTH sides of the igniter...which equals faster starts AND more even cooling of the igniter. Even cooling promotes long igniter life. These heaters always heat from the center, so they do it evenly but if they do not cool evenly, they bend slightly as one side of the igniter is expanded more than the other...this causes the magnesium filaments in the ceramic core of the igniter to snap, thus causing a failed igniter.

Also, the TRIAC control of your control board may be sending a signal that is compromising the igniter...which is less likely.

Lastly, when you remove the igniter, vacuum out the chassis is sits in and make sure that the two 1/2" hex screws on the front of the stove that secure the burn pot are tight, tight, tight. This will not promote longer igniter life but will allow for quicker start up times. If you ever remove the hex bolt to take the burn pot out...make sure you have a new gasket set on hand if you suck up the old gasket in the vac you may not get any ignition at all.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

For those of you who are going through igniter on models made post 2006...the weep hole for the igniter air is drilled through the igniter body and in to the air intake stream, if the person doing the drilling is right handed (which most of us are) and has elbows on his arms (most of us do) then you will understand how hard it is to drill through something perfectly straight. If the weep hole was made off center it may be just enough of an angle that it cannot pull the air up in to the igniter area..this causes long delayed starts. BUT...there is a little black metal cap on the igniter housing...pull that off. Now you are getting air from BOTH sides of the igniter...which equals faster starts AND more even cooling of the igniter. Even cooling promotes long igniter life. These heaters always heat from the center, so they do it evenly but if they do not cool evenly, they bend slightly as one side of the igniter is expanded more than the other...this causes the magnesium filaments in the ceramic core of the igniter to snap, thus causing a failed igniter.

Also, the TRIAC control of your control board may be sending a signal that is compromising the igniter...which is less likely.

Lastly, when you remove the igniter, vacuum out the chassis is sits in and make sure that the two 1/2" hex screws on the front of the stove that secure the burn pot are tight, tight, tight. This will not promote longer igniter life but will allow for quicker start up times. If you ever remove the hex bolt to take the burn pot out...make sure you have a new gasket set on hand if you suck up the old gasket in the vac you may not get any ignition at all.

good advice here , though the description above is for a 2 auger unit like the pdvc/p-10 or pdv/p-22 the Ep unit the OP has is an open sleeve pulling air from the room.

to the OP, are you seeing "fast cycling" in other words is the stove switching on and off relatively rapidly? does you stat have a swing temp or is it a constant (does it cut on at the same temp it cuts off at instead of dropping a couple degree on the stat before cycling back on?

fast cycling is hard on these igniters , kinda like rapidly switching an edison light bulb on and off, it stresses the resistance coil in the igniter causing premature failure. with a "zero swing" stat i'd take the advice above and set for high low in the coldest part of the season and use on/off during the shoulder seasons. this is what i do with mine at home, alternative would be to obtain a stat with a 2 to 3 degree swing temp to allow the igniter time to "rest" between firings when its really cold out

 

[Harvey Schneider]

alternative would be to obtain a stat with a 2 to 3 degree swing temp to allow the igniter time to "rest" between firings when its really cold out

Would it be reasonable to assume that moving the thermostat further away from the stove would achive the same thing as increasing swing?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Would it be reasonable to assume that moving the thermostat further away from the stove would achive the same thing as increasing swing?

possibly, or it could increase the cycle frequency, depends on how well the structure holds heat. in a less well insulated structure having it closer to the stove would probably slow the frequency of starts down. the "skytech" remotes we cary have an adjustable "swing" on them this is what im currently using. i have mine at a 2 degree swing (1-3 optional) which works pretty well for me except when its really bad cold outside

 

[Harvey Schneider]

possibly, or it could increase the cycle frequency, depends on how well the structure holds heat. in a less well insulated structure having it closer to the stove would probably slow the frequency of starts down. the "skytech" remotes we cary have an adjustable "swing" on them this is what im currently using. i have mine at a 2 degree swing (1-3 optional) which works pretty well for me except when its really bad cold outside

I see, moving further from the stove decreases response to the stove, but may increase response to heat loss. Probably not a solution.

 

[p8ntballer789]

​

​

I have been using one since fall in my PDVC. It seems to work well but, in my workshop, sees less than one cycle per day. The fit is perfect and Ignition is fast.
Don't solder igniter leads, use crimp on splices. The igniter came with 10" leads that I spliced to the old leads.

Excellent thanks for the feedback and the advice to crimp them instead

For those of you who are going through igniter on models made post 2006...the weep hole for the igniter air is drilled through the igniter body and in to the air intake stream, if the person doing the drilling is right handed (which most of us are) and has elbows on his arms (most of us do) then you will understand how hard it is to drill through something perfectly straight. If the weep hole was made off center it may be just enough of an angle that it cannot pull the air up in to the igniter area..this causes long delayed starts. BUT...there is a little black metal cap on the igniter housing...pull that off. Now you are getting air from BOTH sides of the igniter...which equals faster starts AND more even cooling of the igniter. Even cooling promotes long igniter life. These heaters always heat from the center, so they do it evenly but if they do not cool evenly, they bend slightly as one side of the igniter is expanded more than the other...this causes the magnesium filaments in the ceramic core of the igniter to snap, thus causing a failed igniter..

Thanks for the explanation of how these igniters break, its very interesting! And my igniter is a open sleeve design. Ty though i will let my neighbor know, he purchased an Englander cause he liked mine so much and his has this type.

good advice here , though the description above is for a 2 auger unit like the pdvc/p-10 or pdv/p-22 the Ep unit the OP has is an open sleeve pulling air from the room.

to the OP, are you seeing "fast cycling" in other words is the stove switching on and off relatively rapidly? does you stat have a swing temp or is it a constant (does it cut on at the same temp it cuts off at instead of dropping a couple degree on the stat before cycling back on?

fast cycling is hard on these igniters , kinda like rapidly switching an edison light bulb on and off, it stresses the resistance coil in the igniter causing premature failure. with a "zero swing" stat i'd take the advice above and set for high low in the coldest part of the season and use on/off during the shoulder seasons. this is what i do with mine at home, alternative would be to obtain a stat with a 2 to 3 degree swing temp to allow the igniter time to "rest" between firings when its really cold out

I have the same wireless thermostat as you do and i vary the swing temp from 1-2. I will stop setting it to 1 swing temp as it will make the stove "fast cycle" less. I have been using the high/low setting since yesterday and do like it. All the information you guys have provided me is a TREMENDOUS help for me! Im a 20 year old learning how to run the stove for my mom haha. We love it since its a million times cheaper to run than use propane!

I can fully understand how the fast cycling can ruin these igniters quickly. I took and used all the advice you guys have provided. Is there a max amount of hours the stove should run for on the high/low setting? I do turn it off in the evening everyday to give it a good cleaning.

 

[p8ntballer789]

Another question for Mike,

All the new igniters i have recieved from Englader come with a new locking collar. I do not use this because there is a locking collar welded onto the stoves housing, correct?

 

[smwilliamson]

Another question for Mike,

All the new igniters i have recieved from Englader come with a new locking collar. I do not use this because there is a locking collar welded onto the stoves housing, correct?

correct

 

[stoveguy2esw]

yes, thats correct, the collar is used on some models removed on others, yours is one that its removed on due to the collar being prewelded onto the sleeve