Help with Northland Boiler W 1010

[DogDoc]

Hi,
This is my first post here (newb). I bought a house in Northeast CT last year which had a combination boiler system with a Weil McClain Gold WTGO Series 3 (Oil fired with tankless coil) in connection with a Northland Boiler W 1010 Indoor wood Boiler (Company originally based out of East Haddam, CT and now out of business). House is approximately 2500 sq ft and there are 5 heating zones.Its a pressurized system which supplies cast iron radiators. The wood boiler is in fabulous shape and unfortunately I don't think I am using it in an efficient way as I can't get my oil fired boiler to stop firing, even when I'm at 180-200 *F with the wood boiler. There are 4 single aquastats on the wood boiler. I know one is dedicated to the circulator but cant figure out which task the other 3 have ( high limit, low limit, overheat, other???).

Is there anyone that is familiar with this boiler or has any literature at all? I am happy to post pics if it will help. Any help is greatly appreciated as I am burning through 1.5 -2 cord a month and I know I should be getting better results.

 

[DogDoc]

 

[DogDoc]

My biggest problem is not knowing what the aquastats are controlling (except circulator). When there is a call for heat oil boiler fires and supplies the intended zone ( water temp drops in the bolier, but satys at 180 in the wood boiler) instead of having the wood boiler supply it while keeping the oiler boiler off. There is no temp fluctuation in wood boiler water jacket. Its almost as if the wood boiler is acting as 90 gallons of storage and nothing more.

 

[mikefrommaine]

One of the aquastats may be an 'open on rise' that is used to turn off the becket oil burner. In the second to last picture the aquastat on the left has a tstat wire connected to it, where does the wire go to? Or are there any wires that connect to the tt wires on the oil burner?

Also what are the set points set at on the various aquastats?

1.5 to 2 cord a month doesn't seem totally out of line for a non gasser. If you aren't burning any oil.

 

[DogDoc]

3 out of the 4 Aquastats have thermostat wire that runs to the Argo 4 zone with priority switch relay. Take a look at the pics. Anyway to test what these are doing by making adjustments? One of the aquastats is a White Rogers with limit settings (aluminum and brass pointers) but it seems like that is not how it is wired to the Argo.I have contacted everyone possible and no one in any proximity is even willing to glance at my system. Appreciate any help you can offer. I

 

[BoilerMan]

It looks like there are several zones that the aquastats are parrelled to the thermostats. Esentially this gives a call for heat if the wood boiler rises above a given tamp. You need to follow the wires from the aquastats. There is not "given" way anything hydronic is installed so there are many different ways to skin a cat so to speak.

TS

 

[BoilerMan]

It also looks like there is a zone valve above the boiler which I assume is a gravity overheat loop of some type. One aquastat may go to that as well.

TS

 

[DogDoc]

There are 2 aquastats on left side. One of them is an overheat which kicks on circulator pump when a set temp is reached. It is set at about 215. When I turn it down to 180, matching the wood boiler water temp, it kicks on.... So now we have 2 of the 4 solved. The aquastat next to this one is wired to one of the zones but does nothing when I dial up or down (maybe its bad?).
On the other side of the boiler is the circulator aquastat set at 140 and verified working properly. The aquastat next to this is a White Rogers with the the 2 pointers (brass and aluminum). It is wired to another zone in the Argo relay and opens a zone on when I turn dial down to around 120. Why would it do that?

The gravity overhead loop has thermostat wire that runs to some kind of transformer mounted on a junction box. I assume this one is for overheat if there is power loss, it automatically opens up. It is connected to a toggle switch to turn power on or off, but not an aquastat

It also looks like there is a zone valve above the boiler which I assume is a gravity overheat loop of some type. One aquastat may go to that as well.

TS

It looks like there are several zones that the aquastats are parrelled to the thermostats. Esentially this gives a call for heat if the wood boiler rises above a given tamp. You need to follow the wires from the aquastats. There is not "given" way anything hydronic is installed so there are many different ways
to skin a cat so to speak.

TS

 

[DogDoc]

The wood boiler (WB) has worked well up until about a week ago. It used to be that temp in the OB matched that of the WB, as I assume the circulator moves the water through the OB when there is no call for heat. When there is a call for heat and a zone is opened I notice the temp dropping in the OB only and the WB temp doesn't budge. Therefore the OB drops temp and starts ti fire. It's as if there is something plugged up, or the WB circulator pump is not moving water anywhere.
The only way I can stop this is to turn down the high and low limit settings on OB to 120/140, but then my OB won't heat house in morning when wood ran out overnight. Any suggestions on this

 

[DogDoc]

I would like to be able to keep the oil boiler from firing when the wood boiler is above, let's say 140-150. Is there a way to do that with one of the aquastats on the wood boiler? Ideally I would like to not have to turn the oil boiler relay high and low limits up and down all the time to prevent it from firing, kind of a pain in the ass. There's got to be some way to wire one of the aquastats to the oil boiler to do this, I would think. So the oil boiler will heat the house if I am gone for any extended period of time, or when sleeping overnight and decide I don't want to add wood at 4 am. Any ideas?

 

[wrightk20]

So if the system worked well up until a week ago then i would suspect that something has failed. Either an aquastat or maybe a pump. I'm assuming that it is plumbed to keep the oil boiler hot at all times so i would look into why the oil boiler cools off and not the wood boiler when a zone calls for heat. Can you confirm that the pump for the wood boiler is running when it is hot? Kevin

 

[wrightk20]

Check the red pump behind the boiler and make sure its running. I have heard of that style pump having a connection between the electric motor and the pump that can break and the electric motor would run but the pump would not. Just something to check out. Kevin

 

[DogDoc]

I have a B&G Series 100 circulator pump (1/12 hp) from the exiting side of the wood boiler. I have wondered if this was the issue and that the hot water from wood boiler is not being circulated to the oil boiler because of this. The pump started to make a rattling sound about a month ago. I did oil it in the 3 dedicated locations but that did not make a difference.

Is there a way to tell if there is an issue with the pump? Unfortunately it looks like I would be draining the system to check or replace it. I see no shut off valves in line between both boilers.

 

[wrightk20]

Yeah i'm not sure if you can check it with it still installed. Let me know. I'm curious as to what it could be. Sure seems like the pump could be the culprit. Where the pump is installed should be the return side of the system by the way. You might have ment it like that but i'm just making sure just incase you need to install a pump so you can install it correctly. Supply should be out the top and return should be in the bottom. Kevin

 

[DogDoc]

I know these B&G Series 100 pumps can be rebuilt but I will need something to install in place. I can replace with a similar pump or perhaps a Taco 110. However, I was wondering if I could go with the Taco 007-F5 which is 1/25 hp.

I know it's not reccomended to drain your system too often because of adding oxygenated, mineralized water, which is going to cause increased corrosion and scale, But I don't have many options here. How bad is this, and is there anything I should do (corrosion protection additives/ pH adjusters as used in OWB's)?

 

[wrightk20]

U could try one and see if it works. I would definitely be installing some shut off pump flanges when u install a new pump. If u have to drain the system then that's what needs to be done. Just make it so u won't have to drain it if it fails again. Kevin

 

[wrightk20]

I guess I heat my house with one grundfos 15-58 3speed pumps without a problem. Water to air heat exchanger in the plenum heating almost 4000 square ft. Kevin

 

[BoilerMan]

A 007 or a 15-58 would work fine in this situation. The old B&G is a watt hog for the little bit of piping you are moving water through.

TS

 

[DogDoc]

OK. Forgive me for not knowing this well, I am no plumber or heating contractor. So the B&G Series 100 circulator pump attached to return on my wood boiler (pipe exits bottom near floor) runs through copper pipe that connects to what I believe is the return on my boiler which is also located at the bottom of the OB. Why is a return connected to a return, isn't that canceling each other out? Take a look at the pic below. They meet at an iron pipe T which connects to the 5 heating zones. The iron pipe leading from the T to the heating zones does not feed anywhere it has a cap at the end (see second pic). The arrows on the Taco circulator pumps feeding those zones are pointed down towards the floor... wouldn't that mean that the water moving from each zone moves from up to down? So does this mean water is being moved out of the return from the wood boiler, which is connected to water which is moving out of the return on my oil boiler, with both of these connecting to the 5 zones (which when opened) are moving water against these?

 

[heaterman]

Sounds like whatever circ (B&G100?) moves the water through the oil boiler is not working. You mentioned that it made a rattling noise a while ago..........that was probably the flexible coupling between the motor and impellor giving up the ghost.

You do not have to drain the system to replace that coupling.
Kill the power and take off the wiring.
Take out the 4 bolts holding the motor on the intermediate bracket. 7/16" wrench IIRC
Use the appropriate allen wrench to loosen the two halves of the coupling and pull it apart.
Install the new coupling and reassemble in reverse order.

 

[DogDoc]

Motor is running and I can observe impeller rotating normally. Would it still spin if it was the flexible coupler?

Sounds like whatever circ (B&G100?) moves the water through the oil boiler is not working. You mentioned that it made a rattling noise a while ago..........that was probably the flexible coupling between the motor and impellor giving up the ghost.

You do not have to drain the system to replace that coupling.
Kill the power and take off the wiring.
Take out the 4 bolts holding the motor on the intermediate bracket. 7/16" wrench IIRC
Use the appropriate allen wrench to loosen the two halves of the coupling and pull it apart.
Install the new coupling and reassemble in reverse order.

 

[DogDoc]

Can anyone comment on my water movement from each boiler and zone circulator pumps? I am confused about how the water circulates based on how this was set up.

 

[wrightk20]

Now i'm no professional by any means, but if the flow of the zone circulators is correct as u show them then the flow would continue back into either the bottom of either boiler. If the wood boiler is hot then the pump should be running and the flow would go into the bottom of wood boiler and get pumped through and out the top of the boiler and then to a manifold to supply your zones. If your wood boiler was cold then a circulator should run on the oil boiler side and the flow would go that way through the oil boiler and out the top to the manifold that supplies the zones. I don't see a circulator for the oil boiler so that confuses me some. But either way the flow should go into the bottom of either boiler depending on which one is working to provide the heat and should then go out the top and to a suppy manifold to the zones. Maybe this will answer your question. Hopefully someone that knows more about this stuff will chime in. So you have verified that the pump is pumping water? Kevin

 

[DogDoc]

don't you mean into the bottom of the oil boiler in your last sentence here? If the wood boiler is up to temperature then the circulator pump is on and moving water out of the wood boiler as seen with my directional arrows.

Now i'm no professional by any means, but if the flow of the zone circulators is correct as u show them then the flow would continue back into either the bottom of either boiler. If the wood boiler is hot then the pump should be running and the flow would go into the bottom of wood boiler.

 

[wrightk20]

No the pump should be pushing the water into the bottom of the wood boiler. Colder water coming from the zones would go into the wood boiler, get heated up and then go out the top of the wood boiler. If your wood boiler got below the aquastat setting of 140 then the circulator would turn off and then the flow would go out of the zones and into the bottom of the oil boiler, get heated up and go out the top of the oil boiler. The water leaving the pumps can go either way depending on which boiler is gonna provide the heat. If the wood boiler is hot and the circulator was running the water would go to the wood boiler. If the wood circulator pump was not running then the flow would go through the oil boiler. I could be wrong but the way a boiler is plumbed is cold water in the bottom and hot out the top. Kevin