how long has econoburn been in business??

[cvanhat]

i was at a show yesterday and the eko-line rep told me that econoburn bought a eko line boiler and basically copied it. said econoburn has only been in business two years and that ekoline has been making boilers for 40 years. does anyone know the history of these two companies?? also stated that eko uses boiler plate and that econoburn does not.

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

i was at a show yesterday and the eko-line rep told me that econoburn bought a eko line boiler and basically copied it. said econoburn has only been in business two years and that ekoline has been making boilers for 40 years. does anyone know the history of these two companies?? also stated that eko uses boiler plate and that econoburn does not.

Alternative Fuel Boilers is a new venture. The parent company (Dunkirk Metal Products) has been in business since 1946, and is one of the big names in commercial boilers. As far as I'm aware, not only do they use boilerplate, but they use thicker plate than others - they are one of the few ASME-rated manufacturers in this market.

The Econoburn is similar to several other boilers, and is not a direct copy of any other product. There are only a few ways to build a gasifier, so there are similarities in many of the designs.

Joe

 

[EricV]

It's too bad some people have to try to discredit others and not just foster the benefits of their own products, maybe they feel they have to. I looked at the Econoburn last week and was impressed with it and the salesman did not bad mouth anyone else.

 

[carbon neutral]

The rep was a fool. Here is the link to eko's Polish home page. The company is only a little more than 10 years old. At least you were smart enough to find this web site and get good info, imagine all the people that are listening to these salemen and getting stuck with something that really isn't what they wanted.
http://www.eko-vimar.com.pl/index.php?id_l=2

 

[Eric Johnson]

Both good boilers from what I can tell. Tarm, too.

 

[webbie]

I'm with Joe - a company that makes metal products for decades and is ASME certified...likely knows how to weld.

You cannot get ASME pressure vessel certification without detailing EVERY source of steel, welding rod, etc. etc on a boiler - plus, keeping track of all thse things for each and every unit!

 

[heaterman]

I'm with Joe - a company that makes metal products for decades and is ASME certified...likely knows how to weld.

You cannot get ASME pressure vessel certification without detailing EVERY source of steel, welding rod, etc. etc on a boiler - plus, keeping track of all thse things for each and every unit!

Craig's right. ASME certification is a royal PITA for manufacturers. I recall speaking with someone at EconoBurn a month or two ago and he was relating how they had to document and prove the suitability of every component on the boiler. Right down to tracing a pipe nipple used on the relief valve. They had simply ordered pipe nipples from a supplier and used them but under ASME standards the nipple had to be traced right back to the factory that produced it. Even if it was in China. ASME does add cost to a product but it also provides a definite value in product quality and consistency.

 

[WRVERMONT]

Gasification Boiler technology has been pioneered in Europe for the past two decades. The design elements we see in this type of boiler are being used because they meet the demands of production, function, design and use. When a smart engineer sets out to design a solid product, they start by studying the state of the art. "Reinventing the wheel" is not usually favored over the improvement of an existing design. The Econoburn boiler is the result of some forward thinking by a U.S. Company with the expertise to research, develop and produce a fine wood gasification boiler. Here's to sustainable energy production in the U.S.A.

 

[pybyr]

I looked really closely at the Tarms on-site, assembled and pre-assembly at their USA importer; well made, but they were already back-ordered into September when I visited in June, so it was moot. I also looked very closely at the Econoburns at the dealer that I am getting mine through, both the one he has installed in his own home and some that had arrived for other customers-- the degree of ruggedness and precision of construction looks much more like industrial/commercial than consumer equipment. Looked like it would survive anything short of a large artillery strike...

I have nothing bad to say about EKO- I've heard nothing but happy customer reports here on this group- but anyone who's bashing Econoburn isn't dealing in facts or merits. Sounds more like the Chevy/Dodge/Ford truck dealers and owners who incessantly dump on each other, when they'll all basically get the job done, and it's all mostly a matter of taste and which set of trade-offs you prefer on the minor details of design, interface, and trade offs of minor strengths and minor weaknesses.

 

[WoodNotOil]

When I go my Tarm 3-4 years ago there was very little information on gasifiers readily available and Econoburns weren't out yet. If I were buying today, I would have gotten the Econoburn to support a domestic product. My Tarm is great, but Econoburns are made right next door in New York. From what I hear they are a great product and we need to support American progress in this area.

 

[easternbob]

In all fairness I was at the same show last week and both dealers were talking trash about the other. Econoburn was saying the EKO is made from recycled steel and had euro. pipe fittings. As some one already said they are very similar, it's a Chevy/Ford thing.
I'm going to purchase an EKO. I like their controler better, think it's more advanced (handles down time better). Plus the EKO is a little cheaper, and they have a 25 instock right now.

 

[heaterman]

In all fairness I was at the same show last week and both dealers were talking trash about the other. Econoburn was saying the EKO is made from recycled steel and had euro. pipe fittings. As some one already said they are very similar, it's a Chevy/Ford thing.
I'm going to purchase an EKO. I like their controler better, think it's more advanced (handles down time better). Plus the EKO is a little cheaper, and they have a 25 instock right now.

You should check the regulations in NY concerning the installation of a non ASME rated pressurized appliance before you take the leap.......... Just a thought but I would want to know if I were putting it in for myself.

What exactly did you like about the EKO control package?

 

[easternbob]

Heaterman,
I would be surpries/shocked if it wasn't legal to install a EKO in NY since there are a couple dealers here and who knows how many EKO already installed. If it makes a difference it is going to be installed in a boiler shed about 60' away from the house.
From my understanding when the EKO meets the heat demand and goes into shut-down (idle) the controller shuts off the fan completely and then every approx 6 mins it turns on for several seconds to give the coals a puff of air to keep them ready to fire back up. On the other hand the Econoburn when it meets the heat load it slows the fan way down but not off. This seems like it going to "waste" wood, (and possible lead to incomplete combustion?).
Our house (currently being constructed) is very well insulated (SIP panels) and 1,700 sqft, heat lost estimate is 40-50k/hr max, so until I get my thermal storage installed I figure there will be plenty of time when the boiler is just idling.

 

[carbon neutral]

In all fairness I was at the same show last week and both dealers were talking trash about the other. Econoburn was saying the EKO is made from recycled steel and had euro. pipe fittings. As some one already said they are very similar, it's a Chevy/Ford thing.
I'm going to purchase an EKO. I like their controler better, think it's more advanced (handles down time better). Plus the EKO is a little cheaper, and they have a 25 instock right now.

You should check the regulations in NY concerning the installation of a non ASME rated pressurized appliance before you take the leap.......... Just a thought but I would want to know if I were putting it in for myself.

What exactly did you like about the EKO control package?

I wouldn't be as concerned with an ASME rating as I would be with a UL or other recognized standards regulator. I think it is this type of rating an insurance company wants to see. I don't know if EKO's are UL rated, they do carry some sort of rating from Europe and I am not sure if that rating is recognized in the US. Anybody with an EKO talk to their insurance company before installing their boiler? It would be nice to know what they had to say about it. When I installed my wood stove the insurance company wanted me to fill out a form and have the fire inspector sign it when I was done. With my eko I will be installing it in a shed about 60' from my house so I am not concerned with insurance.

 

[tompat]

Hi. I am trying to get a building permit to build an outbuilding and put an Eko 60 in it to heat the outbuilding and my home. I live in Mannsville, New York, which is in Jefferson County. The Code Enforcement Office says they cannot find any information concerning certification for use in New York State. I am contacting the dealer, Ecoheat in Canton to try to obtain this. The Code Enforcement Officer, who is a friend of mine and has always been extremely fair and helpful, tried to contact Gene Knight, the CEO of Ecoheat. He was unable, but Gene called the Code Enforcement Office back and, according to the Officer, told the office that no certification was needed. The Code Enforcement Office will not issue me a building permit for this boiler without it. They said that I would be in violation if I installed it without the certification and their approval. Has anyone else had to supply this info to the Code people? I sure would appreciate any help anyone can supply. Thanks.

 

[steam man]

I've read where boilers sold in Maine or Mass have to be ASME rated. Not 100% sure that's true but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. If boilers are sold without a certified pressure rating then they are probably legal somewhere or they couldn't get sold.

Mike

 

[Chris S]

There is a German rating agency certificate available on the new horizons site here http://www.newhorizoncorp.com/PDF/certyfikat TUV 06 Ang.pdf
I was told by my dealer to bring this to the local agency. Apparently in NY th elocal jurisdiction is the final say on what's acceptable & what's not.

Good Luck, keep us posted

 

[Boilerguy]

Asme is the standard for pressure vessel, a boiler to be sold and installed in Michigan has to be built to asme standards and registered with the National board

http://www.nationalboard.org/

Most of the wood fired water heating appliances you see in peoples yards are not pressurized thus exempt from the boiler laws.

I like the econo burn, looks like a first class product, they are NOT asme compliant at this time, this fact from Hank at econoburs just a few days ago. They are in the

process but it is not done.

 

[pybyr]

I looked really closely at the Tarms on-site, assembled and pre-assembly at their USA importer; well made, but they were already back-ordered into September when I visited in June, so it was moot. I also looked very closely at the Econoburns at the dealer that I am getting mine through, both the one he has installed in his own home and some that had arrived for other customers-- the degree of ruggedness and precision of construction looks much more like industrial/commercial than consumer equipment. Looked like it would survive anything short of a large artillery strike...

I have nothing bad to say about EKO- I've heard nothing but happy customer reports here on this group- but anyone who's bashing Econoburn isn't dealing in facts or merits. Sounds more like the Chevy/Dodge/Ford truck dealers and owners who incessantly dump on each other, when they'll all basically get the job done, and it's all mostly a matter of taste and which set of trade-offs you prefer on the minor details of design, interface, and trade offs of minor strengths and minor weaknesses.

Since my original post in this thread, above, my Econoburn arrived, and I hope to be hooking it up in the coming weeks (that darn day job that pays the bills has been standing in the way of doing so)

I should say as background that i'm pretty infamous among family and acquaintances for adhering to a perspective that when it comes to design/ construction/ workmanship, "overkill is just enough" As in, when I've framed floors, I look at the joist size and span tables and err, hugely, on the side of shorter spans, bigger wood, closer spacing. My carpenter friends chuckle to witness it, but for relatively modest increases in cost, my floors could support a vehicle, and they never sag/ shift/ bounce.

with that hard to please background disclosed, and having no stake in the company or any dealer, I am THRILLED with the design and build quality of my Econoburn unit- from the workmanship on the welds to the lacing of the wires in the relay rack and the connection box on the back. Loose and haphazard wires are not unsafe, but this thing shouts pride in design and manufacture in even the lengths of the wires and how they're meticulously loomed/ lengthed/ swept together. About the only things I've owned and seen of similar over-the-top build quality and workmanship have been electronic/comm devices from the Cold War Era, when Uncle Sam spared no expense at the taxpayers' behest.....

 

[deerefanatic]

I'm not really sure what the big deal is with boilers needing to be ASME rated.... They all have pop-off valves installed that blow at fairly low pressures, and almost everybody's hydronic system has a non-ASME expansion tank in it too......

Just overkill for a residential enviroment....

 

[Willman]

Its all about insurance. They figure they will pay out less claims if built to certain standards.
Will

 

[deerefanatic]

I suppose....... Just comes down to why the boiler? What about other stuff like expansion tanks, water coils, radiant panels, etc.........

 

[PatrickAHS]

I am a factory rep for Alternate Heating Systems Inc. I can say from experience that the ASME certification is for sure a lot of work each and every time you build a boiler.

 

[deerefanatic]

I'm sure it is.. And it's appreciated!

 

[Der Fuirmeister]

I looked really closely at the Tarms on-site, assembled and pre-assembly at their USA importer; well made, but they were already back-ordered into September when I visited in June, so it was moot. I also looked very closely at the Econoburns at the dealer that I am getting mine through, both the one he has installed in his own home and some that had arrived for other customers-- the degree of ruggedness and precision of construction looks much more like industrial/commercial than consumer equipment. Looked like it would survive anything short of a large artillery strike...

I have nothing bad to say about EKO- I've heard nothing but happy customer reports here on this group- but anyone who's bashing Econoburn isn't dealing in facts or merits. Sounds more like the Chevy/Dodge/Ford truck dealers and owners who incessantly dump on each other, when they'll all basically get the job done, and it's all mostly a matter of taste and which set of trade-offs you prefer on the minor details of design, interface, and trade offs of minor strengths and minor weaknesses.

Since my original post in this thread, above, my Econoburn arrived, and I hope to be hooking it up in the coming weeks (that darn day job that pays the bills has been standing in the way of doing so)

I should say as background that i'm pretty infamous among family and acquaintances for adhering to a perspective that when it comes to design/ construction/ workmanship, "overkill is just enough" As in, when I've framed floors, I look at the joist size and span tables and err, hugely, on the side of shorter spans, bigger wood, closer spacing. My carpenter friends chuckle to witness it, but for relatively modest increases in cost, my floors could support a vehicle, and they never sag/ shift/ bounce.

with that hard to please background disclosed, and having no stake in the company or any dealer, I am THRILLED with the design and build quality of my Econoburn unit- from the workmanship on the welds to the lacing of the wires in the relay rack and the connection box on the back. Loose and haphazard wires are not unsafe, but this thing shouts pride in design and manufacture in even the lengths of the wires and how they're meticulously loomed/ lengthed/ swept together. About the only things I've owned and seen of similar over-the-top build quality and workmanship have been electronic/comm devices from the Cold War Era, when Uncle Sam spared no expense at the taxpayers' behest.....

Now that you've had your unit for a few months how has it worked? Has the factory been helpful? I'm considering a few brands and would appreciate an update on your experience.