Hydraulic help.. DIY mobile logsplitter

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Gareth96

Burning Hunk
Feb 8, 2014
242
SW Ohio
I got one of these at a government auction.. It's a Ryan GA-30 Lawn Aerator, but the aerator is FUBAR..

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I stripped it way down and turned it into this for Halloween..

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t31/1397243_644618338914023_2099551737_o.jpg

Anyway, it has a hydrostatic transmission that pushes its 1400 pounds or so at 6mph.. and has a hydraulic arm that lifts the back aerator assembly (easy 600lbs). Yes, it's 1400 pounds..

Do you think I'd be able to make this into a mobile splitter? Probably need a ram with a longer action, and double action (in/out)? Just not sure if it has the power/flow needed, I don't know squat about that stuff and can't find any info on it. I'd be splitting 16" long, maybe 12" round rounds.. What do you think?
 
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Using the stock components is probably not much of an option. The lift is probably single acting and you really can't tap off of the hydro tranny. That doesn't mean that you don't have options.
What is the engine hp and how is it connected to the machine (runs hydro pump, belts to pump, drive shaft, etc.) Verical or horizontal?
 
If I remember right, the lift/lower cylinder is double acting and strong enough to lift the entire machine off the ground.

I suppose that is very possible, but I HIGHLY doubt that the hydraulic pump used will be of the capacity needed for a reasonably responsive splitter. There just wouldn't be the need for it on this type of machine. And I would double darn gar-own-tee that it is a small single acting pump (if it is a stand alone pump to begin with).

Splitter pumps are kind of a unique critter with the two speeds. Unless a person has a large HP motor to pull a high GPM single stage pump - the 2 stage is really the only way to go.
 
It's got an 18hp Kohler, horizontal shaft.. The shaft direct drives a pump that runs the hydrostatic drive and the lift, both of which are connected to the pump by hoses. I think the lift is just one directional (up) because down is easily handled by gravity. I'll have to look though, could be wrong.

I think it could be a win if I could just replace the ram, and get a new lever. Assuming I have the right inlets/outlets in the hydraulic pump to handle it.. The current ram is only (guessing here) about 6-8"..
 
If the hydraulic arm is bi-directional, will it have 3 hoses.. whereas only have 2 hoses for one direction?

Edit: according to the schematic.. the lift cylinder only has two lines running to it..
 
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If the hydraulic arm is bi-directional, will it have 3 hoses.. whereas only have 2 hoses for one direction?
What is the hydraulic "arm"? You should have a control valve and a cylinder. The cylinder will have one or two hoses going to it.
 
Tine lift is double acting Cylinders, which I assume means two of them. The fluid capacity is 8 gal.

I can't find the flow rate of the pump.
 
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Page 6 shows it's double acting for lift/lower. Might be best to get the info off the pump and look for specs that way. I do know the pump on this machine is at least double the size of the tiny single stage pump on my splitter. Not that physical size is any indicator of GPM.

With an 8 gallon hydro oil capacity, and knowing how fast this machine moves, I'm leaning towards the pump being capable of working a much larger cylinder if plumbed to the hydro motor circuit and not the current lift/lower circuit. Lift/lower might just do it though.
 
if plumbed to the hydro motor circuit
- I'd like to keep the drive capability.. If I plumbed to the hydro motor could I use a tee/Y fitting and branch off, or would I have to disable the drive?

I guess I'd need a new cylinder with a 16" or so action?
 
With a single stage pump - an 11 gpm pump will require 16hp (to generate 2500 psi or normal splitter range).
 
I'll look at the motor when I get home and see if I can see any info plates...
 
Besides a serial number, all the pump says on it is 77100 3060 B.. which turned up nothing in a google search. The cylinder does have two hoses going to it.. where do I go from here?
 
One cylinder or two? We could make a swag if you knew the cylinders diameter and length (actual length of the throw, not the whole cylinder) and the time it takes to go to full extension. This still won't tell us anything about pressure. Keep in mind that most splitters run in the neighborhood of 2500 PSI. Not all hydro pumps are designed for that.
 
Just one cylinder. The diameter of the cylinder is 1" (the one that moves inside the main housing).. I couldn't get the length of throw because it's torn apart right now, but the distance between the center of the two hoses is 3.25", so the throw should be what maybe 2-2.5"? On that link to page 95 above, it shows in the schematic for the lift valve a value of 2000psi, is that a relief valve? If so then I assume the cylinder is less than 2000psi?

I think, when it was working, it only took a second or two to lift the rear to max height..
 
2000 psi wouldn't be out of place for a system like that.
I am simply not convinced that the current hydro system will be sufficient for splitter operation.
 
So a combination of low flow and not enough PSI? How could I be sure?
 
If u got the specs of the pump that would tell you. You could also put a gauge in the system for pressure.
 
So if I find a gauge, would I put it in place of the cylinder? or in line with the cylinder?

I flow less of a big deal? It would still work at a lower flow rate, but just be slow acting?

I guess I could try writing the company.. but I don't expect an answer..
 
You would add it inline but what that really tells you is the bypass pressure. Not really what the pump is capable of. Flow is just as important. Simply stated...flow equates to movement...pressure equates to power. Both are affected by cylinder size. It really takes a good combo of both for a splitter.
 
So I really need to get the info from the manufacturer? What do I ask for? Max operating pressure and max flow rate?
 
Just talked to a Jacobsen/Ryan dealer tech and he seems to think it's around 9 GPM. I'll send him the numbers you posted and see what he comes up with.
 
I think there are several issues mixed here. Hydrostatic drive, cylinder circuit, and possible splitter circuit.

Hydrostatic drive is 'closed circuit' where oil goes from pump to motor to pump without returning directly to tank. Return side is under 'charge pressure' of 100 to 400 psi for several reasons (mainly pressure into the pump without cavitation, and for dynamic braking). A separate charge pump maintains the pressure on the low side.
Speed and direction are controlled by stroking the pump swash plate. No valves for control of the motor.

Open loop circuits (motor or cylinder) go from pump, to flow control valve, to cylinder, then back to tank and atmospheric pressure. Inlet to pump is atmospheric pressure. (Some big industrial open loop circuits have charge pumps, but not what I am referring to here.)

A cylinder can be run off a hst pump, but it (usually) needs to be a double rod cylinder with equal areas on each side. Otherwise the oil going to the cylinder is less (or more, depending on stroke direction) than the return to the pump, by the area ratios, and the pump won't maintain its charge pressure.

If the drive is a hydrostatic, with belt to the engine usually, or maybe direct drive, there will usually be two separate hydro pump packages stacked together. One for left wheel, one for right wheel. Or, is this a single pump driving a motor into a differential axle?

Usually a hst pump has a built in charge pump. Sometimes the small hydros do, sometimes they have one separate pump built in somewhere for charge supplying both wheel drives. Often the small loads such as mower deck lift simply tap into charge pressure (with appropriate sequencing valves to prevent the cylinder from dropping the charge pressure too low) rather than a separate lift pump.

I am going to guess the lift is from charge, but either way probably 2 to 5 gpm max.

Running the splitter cylinder from the HST can be done, but the circuit design is way beyond a homeowner project.

I think the project could be nice, mainly to get self propel and run a conveyor motor.

However, I would look at driving a new 2 stage splitter pump off the engine somewhere. Belt drives put side loads on the pump bearings, most are not rated for that, and you need either an overhung load adaptor, or external bearings, which are hard to line up.
Belt drive also limited on hp, unless you try timing belt design.
Can you couple it the flywheel/fan end someway, instead of the drive pto out end?
That would avoid the OHL. Not sure how strong the fan end crank is.

Another option, find a through drive pump but I don’t know of any two stage ones.

Next option, pull out the wheel drive HST pumps, drive the splitter pump directly, then tap into the splitter pump to run the wheel drives open loop. Needs some circuit desing to prevent heat, but could be done.

Of course there are tank mods, return filtration, and possible cooler needed, but it is all ‘possible’.

I’d sure figure a way to use that engine and hp though. Could run a 22 or 28 gpm two stage pump on a tradtitional splitter. and have electric start.
 
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Pressure (psi) and flow (gpm). The next part of the puzzle is cylinder size that you plan to use
 
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