In 5 years there will be no permanent Arctic ice left.
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That article was written 1.5 years ago, so we are down to 3.5 years left now, I guess we are toast. Might as well just run open headers on the cars at this point.
Actually, it was written 1.3 yrs ago, but who's counting. More importantly, what changes have each one of us made in our lives to reduce our individual contribution to this issue?
Instead of demonstrating weak searches and relying on Google to bring more advertisements, follow source data instead.
https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
![[Hearth.com] In 5 years there will be no permanent Arctic ice left.](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/243/243889-331f6b60fbd4d0fb85998fb514d45de9.jpg?hash=SHn2pz919e "[Hearth.com] In 5 years there will be no permanent Arctic ice left.")
Instead of demonstrating weak searches and relying on Google to bring more advertisements, follow source data instead.
https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
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At this point, Begreen, I don't even think it's worth spending the time discussing these things with the older generations (I am part of those generations, generation X). We are gleefully causing damage to the environment and leaving a mess for the next generations. And along the way, we are hearing some really silly excuses and counter explanations to dumb down the debate. Tom Nichols calls it the Death of Expertise.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
At least those younger than gen x were raised to want to save the environment. Maybe it's not a total loss.
I am an early boomer and have always loved our planet's diverse environment. This probably started from growing up with woods surrounding our home and a lot of summer camping in the Berkshires. I didn't buy into the plastics for everything idea and have always appreciated people that create smarter solutions with lower planetary impact. The changes now occurring are profoundly disturbing and impossible to ignore yet denial is a common response.
We are living with a problem that will get much worse or get much much much worse. Either way it gets worse and most people just don't have the imagination to imagine how bad it can get.
Droughts and fires in the summer, heavy flooding in the spring and fall. The equator is getting hotter, which is driving migration north and south, because that's what humans that want to survive do, they migrate/adapt or die. These changes are having a great impact on our societies and cultures. People are going to keep migrating to the cities best economically suited to handle climate change, leaving large parts of the country under populated and underperforming economically. The same goes for immigration from the hotter climate countries. The smart thing would be to start planning for these changes now, imagining new cities better situated and prepared for the population shifts. But that is hard to do when some states don't even allow for the term climate change to be used. So we are just going to chaotically fall into this.
Droughts and fires in the summer, heavy flooding in the spring and fall. The equator is getting hotter, which is driving migration north and south, because that's what humans that want to survive do, they migrate/adapt or die. These changes are having a great impact on our societies and cultures. People are going to keep migrating to the cities best economically suited to handle climate change, leaving large parts of the country under populated and underperforming economically. The same goes for immigration from the hotter climate countries. The smart thing would be to start planning for these changes now, imagining new cities better situated and prepared for the population shifts. But that is hard to do when some states don't even allow for the term climate change to be used. So we are just going to chaotically fall into this.
One of those old boomers here. This seems along way from arctic ice. Got think that we(USA) have come a long way in cleaning up and moving away from creating a new W R Grace or Love Canal situation. If we are talking Carbon, $5.00 gas (Ca. just about there again) will take a lot of carbon from the air. Clean ups in mining and old industrial sites are something to work on, but do we really create these any more?
As bad as the old day pollution was, I don't think the overall short-sightedness is allowed exist much in our economy.Pollution, increases in economy, and life expectancy all had huge gains. I would think the environment goes in with that. My thought , overall, we(USA) are doing a pretty good job improving stuff. Like so many things, there is always room for improvement.
As bad as the old day pollution was, I don't think the overall short-sightedness is allowed exist much in our economy.Pollution, increases in economy, and life expectancy all had huge gains. I would think the environment goes in with that. My thought , overall, we(USA) are doing a pretty good job improving stuff. Like so many things, there is always room for improvement.
Unfortunately bigger problems have been happening since then, like major oil spills, tailing pond bursts, the Alberta tar sands, etc.. The administration just removed rules put in place to prevent another BP disaster. Overall, emissions are on the rise, not declining. A lot of this is the result of there being many more people on the planet now, but also increasing pushes by the fossil fuel and chemical industries into areas like agriculture and plastics production. Instead of slowing down, we are rushing toward the tipping point.
Back to arctic ice: Ice-albedo feedback is accelerating the loss of arctic ice. the more exposed water in the Arctic, the more heat is absorbed. What are the implications? A slower or disappearing jet stream is possible. The difference between the cold polar extremes and warmer lower latitude temps is what drives our weather. Normally a strong jet stream contains polar cold but in recent years with a weaker and less stable jet stream, we are seeing polar outbreaks where the polar cold spills down over the continent. Extreme summer weather is another effect. Dramatically increased methane emissions from thawing permafrost is a serious concern without cold and snow cover. Then there is the loss of habitat and food to indigenous peoples and wildlife. Uncertain but possible are the losses of ocean thermoclines which would have far-reaching implications for everyone.
Back to arctic ice: Ice-albedo feedback is accelerating the loss of arctic ice. the more exposed water in the Arctic, the more heat is absorbed. What are the implications? A slower or disappearing jet stream is possible. The difference between the cold polar extremes and warmer lower latitude temps is what drives our weather. Normally a strong jet stream contains polar cold but in recent years with a weaker and less stable jet stream, we are seeing polar outbreaks where the polar cold spills down over the continent. Extreme summer weather is another effect. Dramatically increased methane emissions from thawing permafrost is a serious concern without cold and snow cover. Then there is the loss of habitat and food to indigenous peoples and wildlife. Uncertain but possible are the losses of ocean thermoclines which would have far-reaching implications for everyone.
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Instead of demonstrating weak searches and relying on Google to bring more advertisements, follow source data instead.
https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
that is a syrian answer? One of my favorite retorts from my golf days? Man your syrian! got to bring a sense of humor once in a while, maybe one a year or so?
https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
that is a syrian answer? One of my favorite retorts from my golf days? Man your syrian! got to bring a sense of humor once in a while, maybe one a year or so?
It's not a light subject or a laughing matter. I may be gone by the time the worst happens, but it is certainly the most serious issue of my children's lifetime.
But to keep you laughing all the way, here's another perspective.
![[Hearth.com] In 5 years there will be no permanent Arctic ice left.](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/243/243914-684f0129fccfdc09c170352f78216499.jpg?hash=he8kgUahY5 "[Hearth.com] In 5 years there will be no permanent Arctic ice left.")
But to keep you laughing all the way, here's another perspective.
brings me right back to the ash can. look your smarter than I. but you know I see an , you just don't recog that you my internet friend are one(/), now go out and save the world and belittle those that disagree/you., remember no laugh rule ( golf days again) is in effect( or correct me if it is affect). enjoy life and think better of those that don't wish to belittle opposite thoughts and opinions. go back to arctic and I will not interject again.
“When the situation was manageable it was neglected, and now that it is thoroughly out of hand we apply too late the remedies which then might have effected a cure. There is nothing new in the story. It is as old as the Sibylline books. It falls into that long, dismal catalog of the fruitlessness of experience and the confirmed unteachability of mankind. Want of foresight, unwillingness to act when action would be simple and effective, lack of clear thinking, confusion of counsel until the emergency comes, until self-preservation strikes its jarring gong–these are the features which constitute the endless repetition of history.” - Winston Churchill
Funny, I think some politician said that about an ice free artic years ago, but he was wrong....
The climate has changed for as long as our planet has existed. I'm not saying we should just throw garbage everywhere and expect no consequences or stop looking at data, but when no one has the ability to look at data and reliably tell me whether it is going rain, snow, or be sunny tomorrow, only extreme arrogance would claim that we are all doomed in 3.7 years.
These types of articles have a long history of false doomsday predictions, and IMO actually hurt the cause of green energy. Although some people will read it and will follow it without question, which of course is the objective for articles like that.
These types of articles have a long history of false doomsday predictions, and IMO actually hurt the cause of green energy. Although some people will read it and will follow it without question, which of course is the objective for articles like that.
And then there is the non-sensational, 1500 page UN report just released.
https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/nature-decline-unprecedented-report/
In the meantime, some rub their hands with glee at the prospect of an ice-free Arctic.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/dail...tinction-vs-mike-pompeo-at-the-arctic-council
https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/nature-decline-unprecedented-report/
In the meantime, some rub their hands with glee at the prospect of an ice-free Arctic.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/dail...tinction-vs-mike-pompeo-at-the-arctic-council
Fiddler
Member
hopefully the rising seas will drown the NJ, NY & CA
.............and with that Fiddler realizes he has done just fine running his wood stove without this site. Adios
.............and with that Fiddler realizes he has done just fine running his wood stove without this site. Adios
I don't think so. Like me he probably came here for info( never did get any by the way ) and doesn't like being preached to about how evil he is because he has a stove w/o a cat and sometimes it smokes. Just saying.
CaptSpiff
Minister of Fire
With your 350-400 foot asl geography you're probably feeling pretty safe. Me too at 136' asl. But the dystopian forecasts of 4-8+ feet of sea level rise will leave non of us unaffected. Our kids grand-kids will live with large area migration, and not just coastal cities, but inland river cities as well. Think about how much more water vapor capacity there'll be in the seasonal spring storms that flood our mid west now.
I know we have an amazing technological talent pool that can do amazing things when pushed, and I'm counting on that to get us thru the next millennia. But I'm sure life won't be the same as in these "good ol days" we live in today. Lets hope there's enough soil for the rest of us to push some daisies thru.
Yeah,... it's a cold rainy day, and I'm reading another winy post on Greenhouse Gases. What else would I be thinking about.
With your 350-400 foot asl geography you're probably feeling pretty safe. Me too at 136' asl. But the dystopian forecasts of 4-8+ feet of sea level rise will leave non of us unaffected. Our kids grand-kids will live with large area migration, and not just coastal cities, but inland river cities as well. Think about how much more water vapor capacity there'll be in the seasonal spring storms that flood our mid west now.
I know we have an amazing technological talent pool that can do amazing things when pushed, and I'm counting on that to get us thru the next millennia. But I'm sure life won't be the same as in these "good ol days" we live in today. Lets hope there's enough soil for the rest of us to push some daisies thru.
Yeah,... it's a cold rainy day, and I'm reading another winy post on Greenhouse Gases. What else would I be thinking about.
Ever puts ice cubes in a glass? Did it spill when melted or are you a fast drinker? Any way as far as those floods, TOO MUCH SNOW due to yup, global warming
I've said this before- 50's,60's, till mid 70's we were all going to freeze to death ( climate change) or freeze/ starve to death from Nuclear winters. Now we are all going to be nothing but dried out flakes on a planet akin to Mercury.
Earth has warming and cooling cycles, Old Sol is contracting and as it does it puts out more radiation on many wave lengths. it also changes the gravational pull on the earth / moon which in turn also affects various aspects of our weather patterns along with the various undersea disturbances( volcanoes/ plate shifts) which directly influence the ocean currents by which the jet streams are also affected. Homosapiens are but a tiny fraction of this. I am a early boomer production- maybe my edumacation was too limited- not.
Earth has warming and cooling cycles, Old Sol is contracting and as it does it puts out more radiation on many wave lengths. it also changes the gravational pull on the earth / moon which in turn also affects various aspects of our weather patterns along with the various undersea disturbances( volcanoes/ plate shifts) which directly influence the ocean currents by which the jet streams are also affected. Homosapiens are but a tiny fraction of this. I am a early boomer production- maybe my edumacation was too limited- not.
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