In 5 years there will be no permanent Arctic ice left.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Doug MacIVER

Minister of Fire
Nov 21, 2012
1,020
se mass
Search, "How many predictions of no Arctic ice." You get, 12345Next 32,100,000 results?!? Shame we've already lost 7 years so quickly. Add Greenland ice will be collapsing with it, move to higher land today.

If we try ,"new predictions of no arctic ice". The result are,"
  1. 12345Next 44,400,000 results
  2. cannot offer reason this stuff showed up with paste? Brought out a chuckle though.
    • GettyImages-843275844_156x130.jpg
      The Best Gas Grills
    • GettyImages-500157629_156x130.jpg
      Petite Dresses
    • toddler_pull_up_diapers_156x130.jpg
      Toddler Pull Up Diapers
    • GettyImages-748595953_156x130.jpg
      Gift Baskets for Every Occasion
 
Last edited:

WinterinWI

Member
Dec 6, 2018
112
Wisconsin

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,270
South Puget Sound, WA
Actually, it was written 1.3 yrs ago, but who's counting. More importantly, what changes have each one of us made in our lives to reduce our individual contribution to this issue?

Instead of demonstrating weak searches and relying on Google to bring more advertisements, follow source data instead.
https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
Screen Shot 2019-05-03 at 8.25.01 AM.png
 
Last edited:

vinny11950

Minister of Fire
May 17, 2010
1,597
Eastern Long Island, NY
Actually, it was written 1.3 yrs ago, but who's counting. More importantly, what changes have each one of us made in our lives to reduce our individual contribution to this issue?

Instead of demonstrating weak searches and relying on Google to bring more advertisements, follow source data instead.
https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
View attachment 243862
At this point, Begreen, I don't even think it's worth spending the time discussing these things with the older generations (I am part of those generations, generation X). We are gleefully causing damage to the environment and leaving a mess for the next generations. And along the way, we are hearing some really silly excuses and counter explanations to dumb down the debate. Tom Nichols calls it the Death of Expertise.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
2,921
Downeast Maine
At this point, Begreen, I don't even think it's worth spending the time discussing these things with the older generations (I am part of those generations, generation X). We are gleefully causing damage to the environment and leaving a mess for the next generations. And along the way, we are hearing some really silly excuses and counter explanations to dumb down the debate. Tom Nichols calls it the Death of Expertise.
At least those younger than gen x were raised to want to save the environment. Maybe it's not a total loss.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bholler

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,270
South Puget Sound, WA
I am an early boomer and have always loved our planet's diverse environment. This probably started from growing up with woods surrounding our home and a lot of summer camping in the Berkshires. I didn't buy into the plastics for everything idea and have always appreciated people that create smarter solutions with lower planetary impact. The changes now occurring are profoundly disturbing and impossible to ignore yet denial is a common response.
 

vinny11950

Minister of Fire
May 17, 2010
1,597
Eastern Long Island, NY
We are living with a problem that will get much worse or get much much much worse. Either way it gets worse and most people just don't have the imagination to imagine how bad it can get.

Droughts and fires in the summer, heavy flooding in the spring and fall. The equator is getting hotter, which is driving migration north and south, because that's what humans that want to survive do, they migrate/adapt or die. These changes are having a great impact on our societies and cultures. People are going to keep migrating to the cities best economically suited to handle climate change, leaving large parts of the country under populated and underperforming economically. The same goes for immigration from the hotter climate countries. The smart thing would be to start planning for these changes now, imagining new cities better situated and prepared for the population shifts. But that is hard to do when some states don't even allow for the term climate change to be used. So we are just going to chaotically fall into this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceBus

Doug MacIVER

Minister of Fire
Nov 21, 2012
1,020
se mass
One of those old boomers here. This seems along way from arctic ice. Got think that we(USA) have come a long way in cleaning up and moving away from creating a new W R Grace or Love Canal situation. If we are talking Carbon, $5.00 gas (Ca. just about there again) will take a lot of carbon from the air. Clean ups in mining and old industrial sites are something to work on, but do we really create these any more?

As bad as the old day pollution was, I don't think the overall short-sightedness is allowed exist much in our economy.Pollution, increases in economy, and life expectancy all had huge gains. I would think the environment goes in with that. My thought , overall, we(USA) are doing a pretty good job improving stuff. Like so many things, there is always room for improvement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aaronk25

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,270
South Puget Sound, WA
Unfortunately bigger problems have been happening since then, like major oil spills, tailing pond bursts, the Alberta tar sands, etc.. The administration just removed rules put in place to prevent another BP disaster. Overall, emissions are on the rise, not declining. A lot of this is the result of there being many more people on the planet now, but also increasing pushes by the fossil fuel and chemical industries into areas like agriculture and plastics production. Instead of slowing down, we are rushing toward the tipping point.

Back to arctic ice: Ice-albedo feedback is accelerating the loss of arctic ice. the more exposed water in the Arctic, the more heat is absorbed. What are the implications? A slower or disappearing jet stream is possible. The difference between the cold polar extremes and warmer lower latitude temps is what drives our weather. Normally a strong jet stream contains polar cold but in recent years with a weaker and less stable jet stream, we are seeing polar outbreaks where the polar cold spills down over the continent. Extreme summer weather is another effect. Dramatically increased methane emissions from thawing permafrost is a serious concern without cold and snow cover. Then there is the loss of habitat and food to indigenous peoples and wildlife. Uncertain but possible are the losses of ocean thermoclines which would have far-reaching implications for everyone.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: vinny11950

Doug MacIVER

Minister of Fire
Nov 21, 2012
1,020
se mass
Unfortunately bigger problems have been happening since then, like major oil spills, tailing pond bursts, the Alberta tar sands, etc.. The administration just removed rules put in place to prevent another BP disaster. Overall, emissions are on the rise, not declining. A lot of this is the result of there being many more people on the planet now, but also increasing pushes by the fossil fuel and chemical industries into areas like agriculture and plastics production. Instead of slowing down, we are rushing toward the tipping point.

Back to arctic ice: Ice-albedo feedback is accelerating the loss of arctic ice. the more exposed water in the Arctic, the more heat is absorbed. What are the implications? A slower or disappearing jet stream is possible. The difference between the cold polar extremes and warmer lower latitude temps is what drives our weather. Normally a strong jet stream contains polar cold but in recent years with a weaker and less stable jet stream, we are seeing polar outbreaks where the polar cold spills down over the continent. Extreme summer weather is another effect. Dramatically increased methane emissions from thawing permafrost is a serious concern without cold and snow cover. Then there is the loss of habitat and food to indigenous peoples and wildlife. Uncertain but possible are the losses of ocean thermoclines which would have far-reaching implications for everyone.
from when you lived in New England?
 
  • Like
Reactions: johneh

Doug MacIVER

Minister of Fire
Nov 21, 2012
1,020
se mass
Instead of demonstrating weak searches and relying on Google to bring more advertisements, follow source data instead.
https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

that is a syrian answer? One of my favorite retorts from my golf days? Man your syrian! got to bring a sense of humor once in a while, maybe one a year or so?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,270
South Puget Sound, WA
It's not a light subject or a laughing matter. I may be gone by the time the worst happens, but it is certainly the most serious issue of my children's lifetime.

But to keep you laughing all the way, here's another perspective.

58686666_10156664857192600_1651022833452580864_o.jpg
 

Doug MacIVER

Minister of Fire
Nov 21, 2012
1,020
se mass
brings me right back to the ash can. look your smarter than I. but you know I see an , you just don't recog that you my internet friend are one(/), now go out and save the world and belittle those that disagree/you., remember no laugh rule ( golf days again) is in effect( or correct me if it is affect). enjoy life and think better of those that don't wish to belittle opposite thoughts and opinions. go back to arctic and I will not interject again.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,270
South Puget Sound, WA
“When the situation was manageable it was neglected, and now that it is thoroughly out of hand we apply too late the remedies which then might have effected a cure. There is nothing new in the story. It is as old as the Sibylline books. It falls into that long, dismal catalog of the fruitlessness of experience and the confirmed unteachability of mankind. Want of foresight, unwillingness to act when action would be simple and effective, lack of clear thinking, confusion of counsel until the emergency comes, until self-preservation strikes its jarring gong–these are the features which constitute the endless repetition of history.” - Winston Churchill
 

WinterinWI

Member
Dec 6, 2018
112
Wisconsin
The climate has changed for as long as our planet has existed. I'm not saying we should just throw garbage everywhere and expect no consequences or stop looking at data, but when no one has the ability to look at data and reliably tell me whether it is going rain, snow, or be sunny tomorrow, only extreme arrogance would claim that we are all doomed in 3.7 years.

These types of articles have a long history of false doomsday predictions, and IMO actually hurt the cause of green energy. Although some people will read it and will follow it without question, which of course is the objective for articles like that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aaronk25

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,270
South Puget Sound, WA
  • Like
Reactions: AlbergSteve

Fiddler

New Member
Nov 2, 2018
14
Ephrata, PA
hopefully the rising seas will drown the NJ, NY & CA

.............and with that Fiddler realizes he has done just fine running his wood stove without this site. Adios
 

vinny11950

Minister of Fire
May 17, 2010
1,597
Eastern Long Island, NY
hopefully the rising seas will drown the NJ, NY & CA

.............and with that Fiddler realizes he has done just fine running his wood stove without this site. Adios
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bholler

CaptSpiff

Feeling the Heat
Jan 13, 2014
428
Long Island, NY
hopefully the rising seas will drown the NJ, NY & CA

.............and with that Fiddler realizes he has done just fine running his wood stove without this site. Adios
With your 350-400 foot asl geography you're probably feeling pretty safe. Me too at 136' asl. But the dystopian forecasts of 4-8+ feet of sea level rise will leave non of us unaffected. Our kids grand-kids will live with large area migration, and not just coastal cities, but inland river cities as well. Think about how much more water vapor capacity there'll be in the seasonal spring storms that flood our mid west now.

I know we have an amazing technological talent pool that can do amazing things when pushed, and I'm counting on that to get us thru the next millennia. But I'm sure life won't be the same as in these "good ol days" we live in today. Lets hope there's enough soil for the rest of us to push some daisies thru.

Yeah,... it's a cold rainy day, and I'm reading another winy post on Greenhouse Gases. What else would I be thinking about.:p
 

paulnlee

Member
Dec 2, 2018
220
Flemington, NJ
With your 350-400 foot asl geography you're probably feeling pretty safe. Me too at 136' asl. But the dystopian forecasts of 4-8+ feet of sea level rise will leave non of us unaffected. Our kids grand-kids will live with large area migration, and not just coastal cities, but inland river cities as well. Think about how much more water vapor capacity there'll be in the seasonal spring storms that flood our mid west now.

I know we have an amazing technological talent pool that can do amazing things when pushed, and I'm counting on that to get us thru the next millennia. But I'm sure life won't be the same as in these "good ol days" we live in today. Lets hope there's enough soil for the rest of us to push some daisies thru.

Yeah,... it's a cold rainy day, and I'm reading another winy post on Greenhouse Gases. What else would I be thinking about.:p
Ever puts ice cubes in a glass? Did it spill when melted or are you a fast drinker? Any way as far as those floods, TOO MUCH SNOW due to yup, global warming
 

blades

Minister of Fire
Nov 23, 2008
3,335
WI, Leroy
I've said this before- 50's,60's, till mid 70's we were all going to freeze to death ( climate change) or freeze/ starve to death from Nuclear winters. Now we are all going to be nothing but dried out flakes on a planet akin to Mercury.
Earth has warming and cooling cycles, Old Sol is contracting and as it does it puts out more radiation on many wave lengths. it also changes the gravational pull on the earth / moon which in turn also affects various aspects of our weather patterns along with the various undersea disturbances( volcanoes/ plate shifts) which directly influence the ocean currents by which the jet streams are also affected. Homosapiens are but a tiny fraction of this. I am a early boomer production- maybe my edumacation was too limited- not.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.