Incandescent reflector bulbs

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
  • Hope everyone has a wonderful and warm Thanksgiving!
  • Super Cedar firestarters 30% discount Use code Hearth2024 Click here
Status
Not open for further replies.
Ashful

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
20,075
Philadelphia
Maybe we can get back to the OP I posted yesterday, now that Pruning@Trunk has been... pruned. What's the verdict on my beloved 45W interior reflector bulbs? I have more than 20 of them between my kitchen and family room alone... another 9 in the master bath.

To answer some of the questions in the previous post, yes I counted more than 200 bulbs in ceiling mounted 120V fixtures, although now can't remember the exact number. I also have perhaps 100 low voltage bulbs (under cabinets, patios and walks, gardens, etc.), and another 40 halogen bulbs on one of those Lutron RadioRA systems in one part of the house. A LOT of what we use is 40w or 60w clear exposed filament, so I'll be happy if those are not discontinued.

But... back to the original question... what about reflector bulbs?
 
And another thing! I don't want the...(fill in the blank) ;lol.

Sorry, I don't know anything about what you're asking. Sounds like specialty bulbs are exempted or maybe you will have to get them on the (ahem) black market.
 
But there are also some nice reflector bulb LED replacements out there......you might want to crunch the numbers when 'decorative' is not an issue.
 
There is a loophole that will be exploited by at least 2 manufacturers for incandescent light bulbs. They will be called heavy duty bulbs or something like that and be made more durable.

Matt
 
plenty of loopholes....you could get one of those 'appliance' bulbs, like for an oven, and install it in a table lamp.

And in the end, the loopholes won't matter....people will switch.
 
woodgeek said:
But there are also some nice reflector bulb LED replacements out there......you might want to crunch the numbers when 'decorative' is not an issue.
Click to expand...
We bought some of these early on (maybe 4 years ago) and they have performed flawlessly. They're on a dimmer also. They illuminate our stone fireplace.
 
Thanks, guys! Thanks for the link, woodgeek. I had done some googling on my own, but what came up at the top of each search was in legalese too complex to entertain on a New Years day. It seems it's really just the regular soft white medium base bulbs that they're phasing out... I only use those in my garage, where the appearance of an LED bulb wouldn't kill me. All of our other medium base bulbs are either decorative or reflector.

I have tried a few LED reflector bulbs, but side-by-side with my incandescent, I still think they look harsh. In fact, I tried them in my exterior floods, as I have two 90W floods and one 40W flood in front gardens, aimed up at the house. They gave the stone a very funny (almost fake plastic) look. I believe I paid $35 each for those bulbs, and they went straight in the trash. In our kitchen and family room, we use twenty 45W R38 bulbs, and they're more often than not (like right now) dimmed way down low. I find the LED's look weird when dimmed real low, as they stay white rather than trending toward amber, and often cut off at light levels above where we often have ours dimmed. It's really just a matter of personal preference.

With the exterior lighting, I can see an economic advantage to the LED's, so I was willing to give them a try. With our interior scenario, so many low-wattage bulbs running reduced current on dimmers, the economics don't really favor the LED.
 
  • Like
Reactions: woodgeek
Hi Joful, I've found that the new Cree soft-white LED bulbs that are sold at Home Depot for ~$10 have pretty good light quality. Of course, these are not PAR shaped reflector bulbs, but it does go to show that not all LED bulbs are created equal, and high price is not necessarily an indication of good LED light quality.
 
Definitely. I don't recall the brand of the bulbs I tried, but because I work very closely with Cree in another one their business sectors (not LED's), I would have remembered for sure if those bulbs were theirs. However, I think the problem I experienced must be common to all LED's, as they're mixing light of just a few very narrowband wavelengths to emulate the full spectrum of an incandescent bulb. What I think happens is that there are holes in the spectrum, which when cast upon certain natural surfaces (the exterior of a stone house, for example), reflects a little oddly, giving the material a strange appearance. Not good or bad, just not the same as the incandescent they're trying to emulate.

Perhaps 100 years from now, people will think of LED's as old and quaint, the way we think of incandescent technology today. They'll be trying to make their new technology look like those "historic" LED's.
 
Actually the white LEDs use a near UV LED plus different phosphors, giving the same sorts of broad spectra as CFLs. Sometimes, like with the now discontinued Phillips L-prize bulb, they added in some narrow band red LEDs to balance it out and improve the CRI. I have those in my dining room on a dimmer, and not only do they dim nicely (with an LED-rated dimmer), but they seem to get a little warmer/redder when dimmed (which is probably engineered into them). :)

So, the spectra do have a little more structure than those for incandescent, but I don't agree with a statement that they are just combining RGB leds. Sometimes you do see that (in the programmable color units) and I can't stand to look at them when they are 'white'.

That said, I'm sure the LED bulbs you tried sucked in your application.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ashful
I thought that the LEDs had a very very high Color Rendering Index number. Like well into the 90s vs. the 80 or 78 of flourescent. Of course, not as good as incandescent.
 
Some do, some don't. They have to be engineered to have good CRI. Seems like most of the $10 ones are around 87-89, which is just where most folks can see the difference, grrr. The L-prize bulb was really nice at 92, but more expensive due to the extra emitters/engineering.\

And the CFLs I've been getting for years were also in the upper 80s.
 
Last edited:
Since we've now answered the OP, I'll chance sending this thread to the can by stating that I'm surprised the 2007 congress missed a golden opportunity to increase federal revenue. Rather than banning all bulbs not meeting a certain efficiency standard, an action of this sort flying against the principles of personal freedom upon which this country was founded, I would've thought they'd just slap a tax on low efficiency bulbs to level the playing field. Those who are just buying incandescents out of habit or ignorance would be coerced to change over, while those who are really committed to pay the price would still have access, putting a little extra money in old Uncle Sam's pot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dave A.
I use incand. light bulbs in the bathroom and in places like closets where the bulb goes on and off for short periods. As often as I have to replace them the tax wouldn't be any big deal. If a light stays on for long periods of time there are better options.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jatoxico
While a heavy tax on incandescents may have accomplished much the same thing as the efficiency standard now in place, I'm not dissatisfied with the way the EISA was worded. Instead of dictating specific lighting technologies and forcing the adoption of either fluorescents or LEDs, it just sets a minimum bar of efficiency for certain popular bulbs. Many loopholes remain for those adamantly against the changes, but for most people the new tech will be good enough and save them significant dough over the next few years.

My favorite (and least discussed) effect from this law was the sudden inspiration the industry acquired to make halogens in the shape and style of incandescents to meet the new standards. After 100+ years of stagnation and lack of innovation, we suddenly have new 29-, 43-, and 72-Watt incandescents that nearly match the light quality and lumen output as the traditional 40-, 60-, and 100-Watt incandescents.
 
Hope they improve the quality of these new bulbs. I had a brand new GE halogen in the new bulb shape burn out on me in just 2 weeks. I have halogens in our bathroom (Sylvania capsulyte) that are over 10 yrs old.
 
Laszlo said:
My favorite (and least discussed) effect from this law was the sudden inspiration the industry acquired to make halogens in the shape and style of incandescents to meet the new standards. After 100+ years of stagnation and lack of innovation, we suddenly have new 29-, 43-, and 72-Watt incandescents that nearly match the light quality and lumen output as the traditional 40-, 60-, and 100-Watt incandescents.
Click to expand...
I bought several boxes of these clear exposed filament A17 halogen bulbs in the "40W" and "60W" (actually 29 and 43 watt) flavors, to replace equivalent A19 clear single filament incandescents in some of my exterior clear glass fixtures (lamp posts, wall sconces, etc.). The incandescents have a listed color temperature of 2850K, and these halogens have a listed color temperature of 2900K, so I figured they'd be indistinguishable. However, the halogens are definitely harsher on the eyes. Thinking it might just be me, I had my wife and a neighbor also do a "blind" test, in which they had to choose between the two in identical wall sconce fixtures on either side of my garage. They both picked the incandescent as their favorite, saying they didn't like the halogen at all. They didn't even know what technologies they were comparing, so there was no bias at play.
 
2900K is still a very warm bulb. We had halogens in our kitchen recessed cans for years. My wife said she liked them for working there.
 
begreen said:
2900K is still a very warm bulb. We had halogens in our kitchen recessed cans for years. My wife said she liked them for working there.
Click to expand...
Agreed, which is why I tried them. I guess I should've put this in my previous post, but I think halogens are more a problem when you're looking right AT the bulb, probably not so much in a recessed can application like yours. These were brass wall lanterns with clear glass and clear bulbs...
 
That makes sense. Halogens are a more intense point light source that are easier on the eye with frosted glass.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom