Indoor storage and boiler placement question.

[Bad LP]

I'm gathering the major components for my pending Tarm Solo Plus 30 and 600 gallons of pressurized storage. In reviewing the opinions of many writers I came across some reading that said to "place the storage as close as possible to the boiler".

I need to know what "close is"? For my basement layout putting the 2 tanks next to the boiler is really going to suck for several reasons. Is a supply and return run of 1.25 dia pipe in each direction of 30 feet plus 3 90's really going to make a difference?

TIA.

 

[maple1]

I think the main reason for close placement is for some additional overheat protection if the power goes out. Heat will dump to the tanks by convection more easily if right next to each other. Otherwise, as long as you have heat dumping handled otherwise (that is one place where redundancy is not overkill), you should be OK.

 

[Bad LP]

I think the main reason for close placement is for some additional overheat protection if the power goes out. Heat will dump to the tanks by convection more easily if right next to each other. Otherwise, as long as you have heat dumping handled otherwise (that is one place where redundancy is not overkill), you should be OK.

The normally open (no power) heat dump zone is not a problem for me. The house has an auto start generator so I don't anticipate the zone being used but understand the importance of it.

 

[dogwood]

Bad LP, I have just shy of 30 feet of insulated1.5" black iron pipe with four 90 degree elbows going from the boiler to storage and the same on the return run. Haven't had any issues. The closer you place storage, the less piping you'll have to purchase and install, or maybe their concern was over line loss, which is why I insulated the pipes.

Some individuals have very long runs of pipe underground from outdoor boiler sheds and OWB's, some with inadequate pipe diameter, which may be what the writers you read were concerned about. Can't picture any reason for you to worry about 30 feet with 1.25" pipe. That can't add up to much additional head either. I'm sure you'll find bigger things to worry about soon enough if you're doing your own install.

What components are you looking to acquire next for your system? Keep us posted on your progress.

Mike

 

[Bad LP]

Bad LP, I have just shy of 30 feet of insulated1.5" black iron pipe with four 90 degree elbows going from the boiler to storage and the same on the return run. Haven't had any issues. The closer you place storage, the less piping you'll have to purchase and install, or maybe their concern was over line loss, which is why I insulated the pipes.

Some individuals have very long runs of pipe underground from outdoor boiler sheds and OWB's, some with inadequate pipe diameter, which may be what the writers you read were concerned about. Can't picture any reason for you to worry about 30 feet with 1.25" pipe. That can't add up to much additional head either. I'm sure you'll find bigger things to worry about soon enough if you're doing your own install.

What components are you looking to acquire next for your system? Keep us posted on your progress.

Mike

Thanks, That is what I expected. Yes, 30 feet isn't that far and I had thought about outdoor boilers being much further away. Of course the downside may be needing a larger pump that costs more up front and to run but I'm not splitting pennies here. Was already going to insulate the pipes.

As for my own install that's not exactly the plan. I'll get the tanks and the boiler set on risers. Boiler raised to make it easier to clean out the ash and the tanks so that proper insulation can be done on the bottom. I'll do the line voltage work and heavy labor part then my boiler buddy will take over who has done a few large Froling installs and I'll be his laborer. He's a full time boiler tech who knows his way around and is aware on how anal I am. The work will be performed thru the company he works for, not a side job.

For now I'm just getting the loose parts including air scoops, ball valves, drains, ect lined up.

 

[maple1]

Don't think you'll have any worries with 1-1/4" pipe over 30' with a 30kw boiler.

 

[dogwood]

What will you be piping with, Bad LP? If you're working with with unforgiving material like I did with black iron, as opposed to pex, you'll find being "anal " will really work in your favor. Same thing when choosing and ordering parts, being anal and assiduously avoiding Chinese junk, will also serve you well. Sometimes I slipped up and bought some smaller Chinese parts locally, like unions, thinking it wouldn't make a big difference "just this once", only having to spend hours full of heartburn pullling things apart fixing leaks later. Sound like you're on the right track.

 

[Bad LP]

Thanks dogwood. I'm a black iron guy. Black should be run for the near boiler piping anyway (IMO) so why not keep going with it. My experience using large diameter PEX isn't that good. At another location we have an outdoor hx for the pool heat. That PEX that runs under the decking expanded (grew) so much it pulled all the piping off the concrete. When it cools it all returns to where it was.

And don't you worry about me using any of that Chinese crap. Ain't happening for any reason. The cost difference between good and crap gets spent very quickly when you have to do something over as you know.

 

[dogwood]

Bad LP, you mentioned you were raising your tank and boiler on risers. I raised mine on poured concrete formed in two by six frames. By varying the height of your risers it may be possible for you to line up the height of either the supply or return pipes from your boiler to the connections of your storage . Saves unnecessary piping work and lots of cussin' later on. If I would have raised my storage a couple inches higher the height of the return pipe from storage would have lined up perfectly with height of the the boiler's return pipe. You might have thought of that already.

Have you purchased your wye traps or cleanouts yet? A tip from hydronics expert Bob Rohr is to use Jomar T-100FB cleanouts, http://www.jomarvalve.com/specsheets/T-100FB.pdf They have a single valve to close to pull out the screen that catches debris. No fuss no muss, and saves having to buy two isolation valves. Got two on eBay. Take it easy.

Mike

 

[peakbagger]

One reminder is if you use rigid pipe either steel of copper you need to account for expansion and contraction of the pipe. If the pipe is hanging off strap or rod hangers there is usually enough slop but if its hard clamped to joists its going to creak and groan when the temperature changes.

 

[Bad LP]

One reminder is if you use rigid pipe either steel of copper you need to account for expansion and contraction of the pipe. If the pipe is hanging off strap or rod hangers there is usually enough slop but if its hard clamped to joists its going to creak and groan when the temperature changes.

Needed to install a pair of 1.5" copper expansion fittings at a job a few years back because the HVAC guys missed it. That was an interesting project having to prevent the ends of the lines from moving and adding these corrugated fittings into the middle of the run.