Is what I'm seeing in my old stove secondary burn even though there's no tubes?

[Mr. Jones]

Yes, I'm looking for a new stove, and trying to save up since they're so dang much, especially adding professional installation charges. Probably over 5 grand. I'm not there yet, but in a year or so. For now, it's checking out all the new stoves and options, brands, etc and weighing the pros and cons.
I was wondering if what I'm seeing is actually the same as a "secondary burn". At first, the fire is normal, bright, and coming from the wood like all stoves do during start up. After about 20 min, I can close the air inlet to almost fully closed, and close the flu damper on the stove "old lopi". If the wood is nice and seasoned, it will start to lose the flame on the wood, and boil around in a mesmerizing plasma like show at the top. Depending on the wetness of the wood, sometimes it's fast and violent looking, and sometimes it's slow curling around itself. Is this not the same as secondary burn, even though by definition, it's not since there's no burn tubes in this stove? I've installed new baffle bricks as well helping this process out. Whoever used it before took those out.

 

[BrotherBart]

My old Sierra used to do that up at the baffle too when the stove top was up to around 500 degrees. The door glass panels in the stove did not have gasket at the top by design to let air come in and mix with the gases up at the baffle to create that burn. Same as secondary burn in the new non-cat stoves.

 

[Mr. Jones]

Well then I guess my question is, why is a stove that's capable of this not EPA rated? Is it just because it's old? Getting it to do this is sometimes a pain though, and have to play with it. Too little air, and it goes out, builds up gases, lights the whole box in flames, and goes back out, over and over again, so I have to find it's happy spot with the air inlet. I'm guessing the guys that can just pull a lever on their newer non cat stoves don't have to do this as much.

 

[begreen]

EPA requirements went through a couple stages. Your stove may have been EPA phase 1 rated. Not sure, but Lopi and Avalon were early experimenters in efficient steel stove design. EPA phase 2 set a stiffer emissions standard. That required additional changes, typically this was adding a rack of secondary tubes or a cat to reduce emissions.

 

[BrotherBart]

They burned cleaner than other old stoves but not clean enough to make the cut in the EPA tests. But I used to love watching that blue rolling blanket of flame up at the baffle.

 

[Osage]

Yes, I'm looking for a new stove, and trying to save up since they're so dang much, especially adding professional installation charges. Probably over 5 grand. I'm not there yet, but in a year or so. For now, it's checking out all the new stoves and options, brands, etc and weighing the pros and cons.
I was wondering if what I'm seeing is actually the same as a "secondary burn". At first, the fire is normal, bright, and coming from the wood like all stoves do during start up. After about 20 min, I can close the air inlet to almost fully closed, and close the flu damper on the stove "old lopi". If the wood is nice and seasoned, it will start to lose the flame on the wood, and boil around in a mesmerizing plasma like show at the top. Depending on the wetness of the wood, sometimes it's fast and violent looking, and sometimes it's slow curling around itself. Is this not the same as secondary burn, even though by definition, it's not since there's no burn tubes in this stove? I've installed new baffle bricks as well helping this process out. Whoever used it before took those out.

I get secondary's all the time in my M520 after I shut down the primary's.

 

[begreen]

Several older stoves had simple variations on a secondary burn system. Jotul and Lange were using it much earlier. The 602 had it when introduced in the 1940s. And further back IIRC some of the grand Round Oak style stoves had it as well. As time went on these systems became more efficient and sophisticated. The first VC stoves had a good reliable secondary burn chamber that helped boost their stove's efficiency and with it their popularity.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/antique-parlor-stove-mystery-draft-control.26593/#post-1018883