Kuuma 100, Help me justify the ROI

[Smoke Signals]

We are heating part of our house (15 year old addition ~1000 sq/ft, decent windows/insulation, not super tight) with an old Sierra that I have modified for secondary burn, it works well and saves us a good chunk of money. I would like to expand our wood heating to the rest of the house. Because of the layout of the house I think a furnace is going to be the way to go. The main part of the house (~2000 sq/ft) was built about 1864, original windows, little if any insulation, I am working on fixing these things. From a quick look over our natural gas bill I have roughly figured we spend $1000 to $1500 a year on NG for winter heating. So if I'm going to do this I want to get it rite the first time.

The Kuuma is $4500, ~24 ft double wall insulated stack with all the fixings $1000, shipping, misc. duct fittings and other stuff ~$500. So I'm looking at around $6000 and a 4 to 6 year pay back.

Other question is how much more electricity will the Kuuma use running the blower 24/7 as apposed my ng furnace that only runs 30 to 50 percent of the time?

Ok, so far I have these justifications, The Kumma will probably out last me and be the last wood furnace I ever have to buy, it american made and easy on the environment. It's the one I want, but I'm not stuck on it 100%.

So, what else can you guys/ gals come up with? It's a lot of money to cut loose of and I need a little more convincing! Thanks in advance.

 

[brenndatomu]

Well, sounds like you are on the right track for sure, I think Kuuma has the best forced air furnace out there. I have never heard of anyone that has one, do anything other than gush over the ease of use, clean burn, efficiency, top notch Kuuma customer service at all hours of the day/night, etc. etc. There are a few here who have them, I'll let them speak for themselves. If I ever had to replace my Yukon, I'd go Kuuma if there was any way I could scrape the cash together!
EDIT: Oh, and as far as electric costs, I'd say $5 a month or less, depending on your rates.

 

[maple1]

$1500/year for NG - and how much wood now?

I would say as long as you're good with maintaining your wood supply, and plan on being in that house for a while - make like Nike & Just Do It.

NG prices likely have nowhere to go but up - you could try to factor that in too.

Another consideration - are you able to keep the house as comfortable as you'd REALLY like doing what you are doing now?

Could you sell your stove to cover some costs? Or do you want to keep it where it is?

And, a 4 to 6 year payback on any investment is pretty darned good to start with.

 

[Smoke Signals]

You guys are great! I came looking for enablers and I have found them . It;s a unique situation here, well probably not that unique but any how when we looked at this house the couple that lived here were paying something like $500 a month on level payment for utilities (gas and electric combined). You see, when the addition was put on the hvac contractor undersized the duct work and failed to allow for any return air from the addition, so in order to keep it warm in the add on they had to keep the T stat set much higher than it should have been. One of the first things we did was put a ventless gas heater in the addition and this allowed us to keep the main stat set at a more reasonable setting. This helped a great deal but it's a little cool in the old part of the house now. The next year our Sierra came along and I installed it, again, more $aveing$. This year I modified the stove with secondary burn tubes, this combined with good dry wood has cut our fuel consumption (read less wood) a great deal.

So soon I plan to replace much of the old outdated duct work and provide for some return air from the addition. The duct work was originally intended for a gravity coal furnace and some of it is covered with asbestos and that must go. I got a good deal on a more efficient NG furnace, this will be installed at that time as well. So while replacing the duct work and furnace I want to plan for the install of the Kuuma and that is kind of where I'm at rite now (looking for insight in to the install). The things we have done so far have cut the utility usage here a great deal and it's a good thing, other wise we could not afford to live here. Now Im looking to take it to the next level. A good supply of fire wood is not a problem so other than the initial investment I cant see any reason not to do it. Any Kuuma owners out there care to chime in?

Ps. maple1, I think we are on track for about 3 full cords burned by the end of this winter. But we keep it a lot hotter than it really need to be.

 

[brenndatomu]

There's at least 2, maybe 3 Kuuma owners on here that I know of, maybe more. They'll be along at some point. Stihlydan is a regular, I lay odds he'll check in before the end of the week. Any pics of the Sierra mods? My inlaws have one, soooo inefficient!

 

[Smoke Signals]

Any pics of the Sierra mods?

Yes! There is a thread in the Classic Stoves section here about it. Check it out. I need to update it, I had a request for some more pic's but I have not gotten around to posting them yet.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/old-sierra-mods-pics.120140/

 

[lampmfg]

Very little $$ for electricity. We also offer a H2O coil that is a great helper for hot water (+200). My dad's electric bill drops quite a bit while using it to heat water in the winter time.

We are still backed up on furnaces right now and will switch over to sauna stoves here in the next month because we have quite a few waiting on those as well. I recommend ordering any furnaces by August before we get backed up going into heating season. We're a pretty small operation and currently don't have much room for storage even after a few small additions to the shop.

I attached a picture of Grandpa Lamppa working away on one.

 

[Smoke Signals]

We also offer a H2O coil that is a great helper for hot water

Nice, does that install in the fire box or the plenum?

 

[STIHLY DAN]

The kuuma has a 2 stage fan, so most of the time it's running on low, not much power being used. Only runs on high when temps are below set point. The H20 coil also saves more cash. I get 80 to100 gal of free h20 a day with mine. I can honestly tell you that the auto adjustment, so you can load it and go is worth it's weight in gold. You also don't have to worry at all about the chimney, you will NOT get creosote. I have not heard of another furnace that has the complete package of the Kuuma, some control the damper but not the fan speed, others control the fan but not the damper, and so on. You really are getting the best furnace on the market. ROI was no more than a 1 1/2 yrs for me.

 

[Smoke Signals]

The kuuma has a 2 stage

STIHLY DAN, do you know the amp draw or horse power rating of the blower motor? And thanks for the good input bro. I am for sure leaning towards the Kuuma, I really have not seen any thing on the market that beats them yet.

 

[Chicken Farmer]

Here is a link to a thread I started about some of the same things you are asking.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/charmaster-chalet-anybody-running-one.121921/

 

[Smoke Signals]

Here is a link to a thread I started about some of the same things you are asking.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/charmaster-chalet-anybody-running-one.121921/

Thanks. Lots of good info there. Looks like you may have made a different choice if you had found this site first?

 

[STIHLY DAN]

STIHLY DAN, do you know the amp draw or horse power rating of the blower motor? And thanks for the good input bro. I am for sure leaning towards the Kuuma, I really have not seen any thing on the market that beats them yet.

Standard hp is 1/3, you can get 1/2 if you want but there should not be a need. Low is 2.9 rla, high is 6.7 rla. I am getting an actual draw of 4.6 high and 2.7 low. These readings include powering the transformer, computer, and damper motor. Which is only .2 when fan is not running. My unit almost never runs on high. Also I over sized my ductwork for power outages, ( little bigger can't hurt) So I am moving more air than spec, so my numbers will be a little higher.

 

[jebatty]

Today was a beautiful winter day for me to take a 300 mile round trip ride and visit Lamppa Manufacturing in Tower, MN. I am putting together a post regarding my visit. Nothing I saw or heard changes my impression that the Vapor-Fire 100 is an excellent, efficient, long burning wood furnace of high quality and excellent design.

 

[Smoke Signals]

I am putting together a post regarding my visit.

Sounds Very cool, can't wait to see it!

 

[Smoke Signals]

I am getting an actual draw of 4.6 high and 2.7 low.

Sweet! You didn't have to go to all the trouble of taking actual readings but thanks!

 

[Smoke Signals]

Ok, lets see if my math holds up. Lets say for arguments sake that it's not real cold out and the furnace blower runs on low almost all of the time.

2.7 amps x 120 volts x 24 hrs =7.8 kw/day

Figuring backwards on my utility bill I see that I pay $0.083 /kwh delivered.

So

7.8 kw x $0.083 x 30 days = $19.42/month

sound about rite?

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Sounds solid. I couldn't tell you because my electric goes down a bit in the winter because of the hot H20. That also depends on heat load. On a 30* day for 24 hrs I would load 1/2 full twice, fan would be on low for 16 hrs or so. That's 2800 sq of 70's insulation at 70* at ALL times, obviously if you didn't mind a few degree temp difference it would be even less. BTW you suck!! I pay $.21 KWH for electricity.

 

[Smoke Signals]

BTW you suck!! I pay $.21 KWH for electricity.

Haha, yeah, that is one of the few things that Illinois has going for it, they regulate electric rates.

Also, is the H2o coil located in the fire box or in the hot air plenum?

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Neither, it sits in the back up against the outside of the fire box.

 

[Chicken Farmer]

Thanks. Lots of good info there. Looks like you may have made a different choice if you had found this site first?

Hard telling, I guess. I was originally considering an OWB before I bought the Charmaster. I still might do the OWB, only a gasser, like a Portage and Main or Econoburn, instead of standard nongasser. The system that I am really looking at is a Garn Jr in a dedicated building with radiant floor in the house and DHW sidearm.

 

[cfarms]

Hi Smoke Signals! I really think you are on the right track looking at the Kuuma. I am on my third year with the Vaporfire 100 in my house. Liked it so well I bought a second one and put in the shop! If you have any specific questions I would love to try and answer them for you. Stihly Dan has said it well! Not only are you getting the best furnace out there you are getting top notch service from a group of guys that I have met as their shop is only two hours from me!! Good luck!

 

[heaterman]

Two general questions.........

1 What would $6,000 get you in terms of new windows and insulation? Look at that closely as no matter what you are heating with, it will take less in a nicely buttoned up house.

2 Where else can you put $6-7,000 and make it all back in 4-5 years? Certainly not in the bank?
(I think you'll find your estimate low)

That being said, you also have to look at your cash situation. Are you borrowing to do this? Is it going to leave you with no "rainy day" fund?
And if this is DIY....do you have the skills, equipment and most of all knowledge to pull it off?